SS. Stockholm 60 years and still sailing. Why not QE2

Welcome to Cruise Critic! If you'd like to participate on our forums by joining in the conversation, please Register Now! Be sure to visit our FAMOUS Roll Call forums, where you can meet other cruisers sailing with you and share a tour or shore excursion and SAVE MONEY!


Unregistered, just back from your Cunard cruise? Get published on Cruise Critic; Write a Review!
Cunard Line

Read hundreds of Cunard Cruise Reviews from cruisers like you.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
All times are GMT -4.
The time now is 09:53 PM.
#1
280 Posts
Joined Jan 2005
The Stockholm (the ship that collied with thr Andrea Doria) is still in opreation as sails as the Athena for Classic International Cruises. She is considered the oldest operating cruise ship in the world, almost 60 years since her launch!!

QE2 is 20 years younger. Why couldn't Cunard, who is all about marketing is history, refit QE2? It just a shame to see a "real" British liner, built in the UK with the "real Cunard" company be pushed aside for some "liner want-to-be (aka QV and soon to be QE2."
#2
Old York
5,646 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by sea-sea
The Stockholm (the ship that collied with thr Andrea Doria) is still in opreation as sails as the Athena for Classic International Cruises. She is considered the oldest operating cruise ship in the world, almost 60 years since her launch!!

QE2 is 20 years younger. Why couldn't Cunard, who is all about marketing is history, refit QE2? It just a shame to see a "real" British liner, built in the UK with the "real Cunard" company be pushed aside for some "liner want-to-be (aka QV and soon to be QE2."
The fact that Athena is still sailing at the moment isn't really the issue - QE2 is also still sailing. The real question is "will she survive the implementation of the SOLAS regulations in 2010?" Personally I doubt that she will, and I think that, along with other cruise ships of similar age to QE2 [Funchal (61), Oceanic II (66), and Van Gogh (75) come to mind], she will go to the breakers.

If she does survive, it will be because she is a very much smaller and less complex vessel than the QE2, and consequently far less expensive to refit.

J
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
#3
1,726 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
The Athena of today has virtually nothing at all in common with the Stockholm.

She has been gutted and completely rebuilt.
Save for the hull, nothing at all of the Stockholm survives today, and it's really a stretch to even say that they are the same ship.

What one sees as the Athena is really a good two decades newer than QE2.
#4
Outside Philadelphia PA USA
466 Posts
Joined Apr 2002
Yes someplace I saw a Lloyd's List of ships that will be lost in 2010 due to the SOLAS changes. The ones listed and Stockholm were on it and several others.

And about QE2, THEY could do the refit, but it seems that THEY have wanted to dump QE2 for quite a while now. That seems to have been Carnival company policy for years and we were lucky to have the ship as long as we did. I have that opinion from what crew and Cunard shore staff have told me and friends over the last several years.

She doesn't meet their uniform cabin standards of 2+ in a room and ease of getting passengers and stores on and off at the end. If you look at any new ship the crew decks have a wide corridor running the near full length and they have forklifts going back and forth on port days loading things from pier to holding area in one motion. And they can't wiat to get away from the situation where QE2 crew have single cabins. On all the new ships regular crew are all 2 in a room. QE2's hull is made of impressively wonderful material that will be sound for decades. The aluminum on top is more of a problem and the pipes for passing water around the ship seem to need constant attention.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
QE2 1969 (June 6 & 26), 1978 x2, 2001 x2 1 trip in 1991, 1999 - 30th anniv trip, 2000, 2002, 2003, The next LAST transatlantic 12/15/04; QE2 40 year celebration 9/07; QE2 July 20, 2008 to MED
QM2 trip 2 1/31/04 & 11/6/04 OCT 2008 TANDOM CROSSINGS => QM2 on 10/10/08 S-NY. Then back to UK on QE2.
SS France 1972 x2 and 1974 x1; SS Raffaello 1974 & 1975
Sea Venture 1974 to Bermuda; SS Rotterdam 1976 & 1977 Nassau & Bermuda
Noordam 1992 & 94/95 new years; Statendam 1993; Ryndam 1999; Amsterdam - New Years 02/03
Celebrity's Horizon 1996 & Galaxy 1997 - trip #3 ?? NCL Windward 1997 3 trips before lengthening; Serenade Of The Seas 2003 trip #7
Maasdam New Years 05/06 - broke engine! trip 502; Explorer of Seas - Bermuda 10/06 trip 331
NEW Noordam new years 06/07 trip 33 (I seem to like new years on HAL !!)
Ruby Princess - Western Carribean - 2nd broke engine trip !! Caribbean Princess JAN 2010 fromSan Juan.
=> Sailing single since 1991 except 5 trips. => 40 total Cruises <=
Coming up: --- Keeping an open mind for others....but guess this will be the end for Cunard until the single rates become reasonable. My Picture site: http://videoboss.smugmug.com/
#5
wimborne,Dorset,UK
3,406 Posts
Joined Aug 2006
Originally posted by sea-sea
The Stockholm (the ship that collied with thr Andrea Doria) is still in opreation as sails as the Athena for Classic International Cruises. She is considered the oldest operating cruise ship in the world, almost 60 years since her launch!!

QE2 is 20 years younger. Why couldn't Cunard, who is all about marketing is history, refit QE2? It just a shame to see a "real" British liner, built in the UK with the "real Cunard" company be pushed aside for some "liner want-to-be (aka QV and soon to be QE2."
We spent Christmas and New Year 2006/2007 on the Athena ,in the Owners Suite . We had a great time, im sorry that Travelscope went bankrupt Lucky for us it was not last Christmas.

Gavin

#6
Botley, Southampton
228 Posts
Joined Aug 2007
I thought that it was easier getting passengers on board the QE2 than it was the QV! Of course, the fact that she needs tugs may have something to do with the decision.

The cabin I had on QV had a bunk up on the ceiling but I think there is more room in the QE2 5 deck three bunk cabins. There are also three wardrobes in the latter - great when there are only two of you!

Last April, I went to a presentation by Cunard and we assured that she would remain in service until 2010 b ecause she was making the money. At the same time, representatives from Dubai had boarded at the end of the World Cruise to look her over. I suppose they need the money to build a new ship! It is not so long ago that they sold Caronia to Saga.

I hope you behaved yourself in the owner's cabin, Gavin.

Maureen
#7
East Lancashire
2,477 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
Originally posted by Winchester
And they can't wiat to get away from the situation where QE2 crew have single cabins. On all the new ships regular crew are all 2 in a room.
Carmel the Librarian on QE2 has said she will not transfer to another ship because she does not want to share cabin. When you are onboard for 4 months you need your own space.

Here is a question. If they took out all the cabins on 1 to 5 decks and replaced them with new 2010 complient ones. Would QE2 still have been the same ship? I know one thing, they would not have put in any single cabins.
Expand Signature
Collapse Signature
QE2, 1991, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2004 (twice) 2005, 2006, 2007 (twice) and 2008 (twice). Caronia 2002 and 2003, QM2 2009, 2010 (twice), 2011, 2014 and 2015, QV 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2016, QE 2012 (twice), 2013 and 2015. Braemar 2015 (once was enough)
#8
wimborne,Dorset,UK
3,406 Posts
Joined Aug 2006
Originally posted by EMSOMICH

I hope you behaved yourself in the owner's cabin, Gavin.

Maureen
Of course i did We did have a Female Butler though

Gavin
#10
4,575 Posts
Joined Mar 2000
Originally posted by Lanky Lad
Carmel the Librarian on QE2 has said she will not transfer to another ship because she does not want to share cabin. When you are onboard for 4 months you need your own space.

Here is a question. If they took out all the cabins on 1 to 5 decks and replaced them with new 2010 complient ones. Would QE2 still have been the same ship? I know one thing, they would not have put in any single cabins.
To answer your question: absolutely not.
#11
Long Island, NY, USA
3,779 Posts
Joined Nov 2003
First, let me make something clear... ATHENA will sail beyond 2010. She is already 100% compliant with the regulations that will come in force at that time.

This is, in essence, a ship that was built in 1994. The only thing that she has in common with the STOCKHOLM is the bare hull.

There is really no good reason to do what was done to this ship - the only reason it happened is that it was heavily subsidized by the Italian state. The Italians came up with the idea of subsidizing cruise lines to have 'new' ships built off existing hulls in Italian shipyards that didn't have the facilities to build their own hulls. This ship was the result, along with some others, like COSTA MARINA, which was built off a container ship hull.

As I recall, the ITALIA PRIMA (now ATHENA) conversion cost something like $100 million. The state paid for something like half of it - a nice little incentive to build off an existing hull rather than a totally new ship!

From a SOLAS standpoint, she is no different from any other ship built in 1994. There is a rule in SOLAS - it's called something like 'substantial change' (those aren't the exact words) - that if a ship undergoes a big enough refit, it is considered a new ship not, and has to comply with all of those rules. ITALIA PRIMA's conversion was more than big enough to fit into that category, and as a result, as far as SOLAS is concerned, she comes under the rules of a ship whose keel was laid whenever work on her refit started (sometime around 1992).

Here are a lot of nice photos of her, inside and out. The only giveaway that she is not a new ship is the pronounced sheer and that nice double row of portholes in the dining room, which is an interesting original feature that was preserved.
#12
Rural Leicestershire, UK
5,671 Posts
Joined Nov 2005
Originally posted by dougnewmanatsea
This is, in essence, a ship that was built in 1994. The only thing that she has in common with the STOCKHOLM is the bare hull.
Doug - what's with the odd stern?

Matthew
#13
s.e. uk
619 Posts
Joined May 2007
My father was due to go on Athena a couple of months back for a five week cruise and it was canclelled. Does anyone her know why?
Glenn.
#14
Long Island, NY, USA
3,779 Posts
Joined Nov 2003
Originally posted by Kindlychap
Doug - what's with the odd stern?
It's to increase the surface area of the hull so that the ship meets modern stability requirements.

Originally posted by nitwit
My father was due to go on Athena a couple of months back for a five week cruise and it was canclelled. Does anyone her know why?
The company that chartered the ship at the time, Travelscope, could not fill two ships so it cancelled its charter of ATHENA.

Travelscope went out of business last month.
#15
Westchester, New York
3,265 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
The Athena looks a lot like the Princess Danae, who we saw in Barbados during our voyage and transiting the Panama Canal just the other day on the Canal-Cam. We thought Princess Danae was a lovely little ship.
#17
Sydney
1,621 Posts
Joined Feb 2005
Originally posted by dougnewmanatsea
It's to increase the surface area of the hull so that the ship meets modern stability requirements.

.



Doug,

Correction and use of technical terms....

The duck's tail stern increases the WATERPLANE AREA of the vessel at normal operating draught and a larger Wp area results in a greater moment of inertia.. I.

Bm (Height of) for (Longitudinal stability) is equal to I divided by V where I is the moment of intertia of the waterplane with respect to the transverse axis through its centre of gravity and V is the volume of displacement.

Stephen
#18
Rural Leicestershire, UK
5,671 Posts
Joined Nov 2005
Originally posted by PRINSENDAM
Doug,

Correction and use of technical terms....

The duck's tail stern increases the WATERPLANE AREA of the vessel at normal operating draught and a larger Wp area results in a greater moment of inertia.. I.

Bm (Height of) for (Longitudinal stability) is equal to I divided by V where I is the moment of intertia of the waterplane with respect to the transverse axis through its centre of gravity and V is the volume of displacement.

Stephen
Stephen,

Please take pity on the non professionals - I'm afraid I can't follow what you are saying.

Matthew
#19
Sydney
1,621 Posts
Joined Feb 2005
Originally posted by Kindlychap
Stephen,

Please take pity on the non professionals - I'm afraid I can't follow what you are saying.

Matthew


Sorry about that, but I was trying to give the most simple explanation! It took me a couple of years in college for it to sink in!

The duck's tail appendage is necessary for the vessel to meet the most up to date stability criteria. They almost fitted on on the CARONIA! Instead they opted for a different approach... they added solid ballast in some of her double bottom tanks... probably pig iron.

With the ducks tail you get improved waterplane area.... with solid ballast... you can't see it but it means the ship is carrying around extra weight and you loose tank capacity. Cheap option in the short term, more costly in the end. The duck tails look damn awful though and I'm thankful it wasn't done to CARONIA/SAGA RUBY.

Stephen
#20
wimborne,Dorset,UK
3,406 Posts
Joined Aug 2006
Originally posted by stowaway2k
is called a "maid"...
oops, not P.C. !

Whatever you call her, she was very lovely breakfast in bed every morning, canapes every evening

The room was great and next to the Bridge, it was included on the Bridge tour (not the interior im glad to say) It had a bedroom with en-suite , a lounge with a table and six chairs, a couch, a large flat screen TV and DVD player , bar and second bathroom, also a large balcony. It was approached through a door which said Crew Only, and was opposite the Captains Quarters.

Gav