Chat With Special Guest Teijo Niemelä!

melissa@cruisecritic · #1 August 25th, 2008, 06:14 PM

Curious about what it really is like to build a ship? Grab a cocktail, sit down at your computer and ask a question of Teijo Niemelä, an expert on all issues shipbuilding related, in our exclusive Cruise Critic "celebrity" Q&A.

Teijo Niemelä, one of the cruise industry's foremost chroniclers of shipbuilding (and editor of Cruise Business Review, which covers the industry from a business perspective) not only hails from Finland, but has also spent enough time over the years at Aker Yards' shipyard in Turku, home of Oasis, to consider it his official hometown.

What do you want to know about the process of building a ship? Niemelä can talk to any of Royal Caribbean's relatively recent new-builds -- all of which were built in Finland. He can tell you what the pre-construction design phase is like, especially the challenges, technical and otherwise, that ship designers must address (for instance, why designing a ship is so very different from creating a hotel). He can tell you what kind of training people who build the ships must have, what can go wrong and what complications can halt a project. And he'll be happy to discuss new-build successes ... and disasters.

By way of background, this occasional Cruise Critic contributor has covered the industry long enough -- 20-plus years -- to talk about how shipbuilding has evolved and become more innovative, why Royal Caribbean's Harri Kulovaara is a design genius, and what kinds of even wackier concepts you can expect in the future (you'll definitely want to ask him how much bigger ships really can get).

So: Got a question about the engine room? The steel beams? The paint on the hull? How designers eke out a new alternative restaurant with limited space (hint: kitchen is not always included)? Why all cabins these days are the same in size and design?

Post your questions below; Niemelä will answer as many as possible from 7 until 7:30 p.m. EDT on August 26 -- but feel free to post questions beforehand. Our Q&A will be available to read all through the week.

SuziClue · #2 August 25th, 2008, 08:30 PM

This is not necessarily Oasis related but I've always wondered why cruise lines use tonnage as a way to say how big ships are rather than weight. What is the difference and how do they come up with the numbers?

Suzi

cruisingator2 · #3 August 25th, 2008, 09:40 PM

When calculating the overall tonnage of Oasis, was Central Park and Boardwalk included in that total or is it just enclosed area only?

stormchaserinnj · #4 August 25th, 2008, 11:36 PM

Hi Teijo,
Thanks for answering our questions! OK, I'll bite -- how much bigger can ships really get? And do you think the shipyards get just as excited as we do about all of these huge innovative vessels or is it just another day of work to them?

Daphna101 · #5 August 26th, 2008, 12:06 AM

Good Evening:

I recently learned that the cabins are of modular setup. How are they connected to each other?

Thank you
Daphna

soliteyah · #6 August 26th, 2008, 11:01 AM

Hi Teijo,

Thanks for answering our questions.

Here's mine: do you think all the crazy bells and whistles that cruise lines are adding could ever affect how safe/seaworthy a ship is?

FloridaPalms · #7 August 26th, 2008, 03:40 PM

soliteyah's question about how safe/seaworthy a ship is made me wonder. Before the actual shipbuilding commences, what kind of tests or simulations are run when an innovative new ship design, like Oasis, is created? Are scale models used and, if so, how?

Thank you.

Judy

Happy sailing to all ~ Judy & Don (and Robbie

)

COUNTING THE DAYS:
Independence of the Seas 11/23/2008 (happy days - a great corner Aft cabin!) - COME JOIN THE ROLL CALL and our own M&M party!
Navigator of the Seas 04/11/2009 (another great corner Aft cabin!) ROLL CALL
Independence of the Seas 4/3/2010 (repeat stay in the same great corner Aft cabin!)
SAILED:
Navigator of the Seas 04/03/2008 (our first Aft cabin - a corner Aft that spoiled us forever)
Disney Wonder 03/18/2007
and going way, way, way back when we were young, our first cruise
The Oceanic 04/1971

kimberly@cruisecritic · #8 August 26th, 2008, 05:23 PM

What is the largest capacity of people a ship can hold before, in the event of an emergency, it is just too difficult to coordinate a safe exit?

mecruiselongtime · #9 August 26th, 2008, 05:41 PM

Hi Teijo,

I'd like to know -- How does RCI (or any cruise line) make sure that workers at the shipyard keep it quiet about new innovations?

Cruise Business · #10 August 26th, 2008, 06:22 PM

Thanks to Cruise Critic for inviting me to come on and answer questions. Oasis of the Seas is definitely the most exciting ship of the decade!

To give some contrast to my day today, I spent this afternoon in New York touring the Prince Albert II, the ultra-luxe Silversea's expedition ship that will mostly ply waters of places like Antarctica or Greenland. It measures 6,072 gross tons and carries only 132 passengers in comparison for Oasis of the Seas with a 225,000 gross tons and full capacity for 6,400 passengers, including upper beds. As a matter of fact, the Prince Albert would almost fit inside the Oasis' Central Park!

I'll start posting answers to questions a bit early so do feel free to chime in with your own opinions. And there's no need to limit them to Oasis only -- in the 17 years I've been editor of Cruise Business Review I've had up-close and personal experiences, from shipyard to onboard. Some of the most memorable? Queen Mary 2, Celebrity Solstice (just visited in the shipyard last month), Finnjet, Carnival Fantasy and Crystal Symphony.

Anyway, on to answering your questions!

Teijo

waitingforoasis · #11 August 26th, 2008, 06:24 PM

Hi Teijo,
I think it's so cool that you live so close to where the ships are being built!!! I'm jealous!

I am really getting into cruising from reading about Oasis of the Seas. I see Harri Kulovaara's name a lot. Has he only worked with Royal Caribbean? What's his background?

Also, what stage of the new-build is the most difficult -- laying the groundwork or putting on the finishing touches? Thanks!

~~* Pam *~~

Cruise Business · #12 August 26th, 2008, 06:28 PM

That's a tricky question, Suzi. When it comes to ships, a lot of people confuse gross tonnage with weight. The answer in sort of a nutshell is that in passenger ships, the measurement refers to volume: one register ton equals 100 English cubic feet or 2.83 cubic metres. Basically, all enclosed spaces on board are included in gross tonnage (abbreviated gt), while net tonnage (nt) refers to areas that passengers can use.

The idea to measure volume by tons has its roots in the wine trade between England and France: it was important to know how many barrels of wine (tunnage as it was then called) each ship could carry.

In cargo vessels, such as container ships and tankers, tons refer to deadweight, which is the ship's cargo carrying capacity. One metric ton is 1,000 kg. In naval vessels, tons refer to displacement, which is the weight of the vessel. Again, the 1,000 kg metric ton is the standard measure (but Imperial tonne is 1,016 kg).

Many thanks to a colleague, Cruise Business Review's Kari Reinikainen, for helping me out with this one.

If that doesn't clarify let me know!

Teijo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuziClue

This is not necessarily Oasis related but I've always wondered why cruise lines use tonnage as a way to say how big ships are rather than weight. What is the difference and how do they come up with the numbers?

Suzi

montgomeryfamily · #13 August 26th, 2008, 06:31 PM

Hi Teijo,

Thanks for all of the information and answering our questions.

Are there any "green" energy projects planned for Oasis, such as solar panels/power?

WackyHeathen · #14 August 26th, 2008, 06:40 PM

Hey Teijo,

Any idea of when European ports will be ready for a ship like Oasis of the Seas? If certain Continental ports can handle the Freedom-class trio, I wonder how much upgrading to infrastructure is necessary.

Thanks,

Wacky

Cruise Business · #15 August 26th, 2008, 06:44 PM

Short and sweet: Gross tonnage covers enclosed areas only.

Teijo

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruisingator2

When calculating the overall tonnage of Oasis, was Central Park and Boardwalk included in that total or is it just enclosed area only?

danvan · #16 August 26th, 2008, 06:53 PM

Hi, first of all it's an honor to be able to have contact with an expert like you.

So mine is a very generic question, How far do you think Cruise lines will get in the matter of building this superships, is Oasis the limit, is that Carnival pinnacle the limit, or there's more to come??

Cruise Business · #17 August 26th, 2008, 07:10 PM

Hi, WaitingforOasis.

Harri Kulovaara is a Finnish Naval Architect who designed a lot of ships for a Finnish shipowner before being hired for Royal Caribbean around ten years ago. He was actually the mastermind behind the revolutionary Promenade concept (it was first introduced onboard the Silja Line overnight cruise ferries in Silja Serenade and Silja Symphony in 1990 and 1991 -- you can still cruise on them by the way, they go back and forth between Helsinki and Stockholm).

What is the most difficult part depends actually a project itself. Sometimes it is the basic design, especially if you are creating cutting edge innovations. Sometimes, it's easy to build the hull, but then you get behind on the outfitting because of logistical challenges.

On the Oasis project there were reportedly some challenges during the first quarter of this year with some design aspects (some of the designs needed to be redrawn and it affected the schedule though the ship is on target now). It's actually 50 percent complete and float out will take place in November.

A lot of what goes into building a ship is influenced by the experience of the shipyard, rather than size of the ship. Pearl Seas Cruises is still waiting for its small ship from a Canadian shipyard (not terribly experienced in ships as big as the Pearl Sea Cruises' ship -- it'll carry 210 passenges.

You may remember Mitsubishi Heavy Industries in Japan got delayed with Princess Cruises' Diamond and Sapphire Princess ships due to the fire of the first of two. Albeit a successful shipyard for cargo vessels, it has not built a large cruise ship.

Teijo

Quote:

Originally Posted by waitingforoasis

Hi Teijo,
I think it's so cool that you live so close to where the ships are being built!!! I'm jealous!

I am really getting into cruising from reading about Oasis of the Seas. I see Harri Kulovaara's name a lot. Has he only worked with Royal Caribbean? What's his background?

Also, what stage of the new-build is the most difficult -- laying the groundwork or putting on the finishing touches? Thanks!

~~* Pam *~~

cruisingator2 · #18 August 26th, 2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruise Business

Short and sweet: Gross tonnage covers enclosed areas only.

Teijo

Thanks Teijo. We had this disucussion on the main RCI board and many thought that Central Park and Boardwalk were figured in the total of the ship.

Cruise Business · #19 August 26th, 2008, 07:12 PM

More about tonnage:

The size of various kinds of ships is measured in tons, but rather confusingly these tend not to be comparable between different ship types as they refer to different things.

A US Navy Nimitz class aircraft carrier has a full load displcament of about 102,000 tons, while the figure for Queen Mary 2 is in the region of 80,000 (but its gross tonnage is 151,400) and that of the Voyager class ships of Royal Caribbean is about 55,000 (and their gross tonnage is about 137,000)

All these figures pale in comparison with Knock Nevis, the Norwegian owned tanker now in use as a storage vessel and the biggest ship ever built (1976).

Its gross tonnage stands at 260,941 and deadweight tonnage at 564,560. Its displacement in full load must comfortably exceed 600,000 tons, i.e. six times the figure of a Nimitz class carrier and 11 times that of the Voyager class ships of Royal Caribbean.

Teijo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruise Business

That's a tricky question, Suzi. When it comes to ships, a lot of people confuse gross tonnage with weight. The answer in sort of a nutshell is that in passenger ships, the measurement refers to volume: one register ton equals 100 English cubic feet or 2.83 cubic metres. Basically, all enclosed spaces on board are included in gross tonnage (abbreviated gt), while net tonnage (nt) refers to areas that passengers can use.

The idea to measure volume by tons has its roots in the wine trade between England and France: it was important to know how many barrels of wine (tunnage as it was then called) each ship could carry.

In cargo vessels, such as container ships and tankers, tons refer to deadweight, which is the ship's cargo carrying capacity. One metric ton is 1,000 kg. In naval vessels, tons refer to displacement, which is the weight of the vessel. Again, the 1,000 kg metric ton is the standard measure (but Imperial tonne is 1,016 kg).

Many thanks to a colleague, Cruise Business Review's Kari Reinikainen, for helping me out with this one.

If that doesn't clarify let me know!

Teijo

Cruise Business · #20 August 26th, 2008, 07:13 PM

That is a good question, and I think only time will tell. I remember back in the 1980s when I began to cover the cruise industry. At that time, Wartsila, the predecessor of Aker Yards, had already stunning concept designs of ships as big Oasis-class ships now are. Interestingly, however, many of them were designed as twin hull ships (like the old Radisson Diamond but much bigger -- and they already had outdoor areas, like the boardwalk or central park, incorporated into their designs). They were called SWATH (Small Water Area Twing Hull).

What is more, Norway's Kloster (he was the original owner of NCL) was at one time planning a huge Phoenix World City, which never did materialize. It had three different towers on top of its hull.

These ships were planned in the range (can't remember exactly) of 250,000 tons which is pretty amazing when you consider that at about that time the biggest pure cruise ship (this excludes liners like Norway, QE2 and Canberra) was the 45,000 gross ton Royal Princess. This is in 1984.

Recently, an event bigger project (which has not seriously materialise) has emerged: Japan's Princess Kaguya. It started with a basic concept design for 450,000 gross ton vessel (the project design was prepared by Aker Yards, the same shipbuild constructing the Oasis. Here is a link:

http://www.princesskaguya.com/index.htm

I think the size of the ship is finally determined by factors such as its potential commercial viability and whether the investors really believed in it. Ships of the size such as Princess Kaguya can be built (for example, Aker Yards' shipyard in France would have enough space), but then comes other questions: who would insure such a behemoth, where can the ship turn around and is there a big enough drydock facility.

In Oasis' case, the people behind the design have been working for decades creating new ideas, and when looking at some of the innovations behind of the Oasis, I have to say, they must have been a lot of fun creating new gimmicks.

Teijo

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormchaserinnj

Hi Teijo,
Thanks for answering our questions! OK, I'll bite -- how much bigger can ships really get? And do you think the shipyards get just as excited as we do about all of these huge innovative vessels or is it just another day of work to them?