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  #1  
Old December 30th, 2008, 01:00 PM
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LauraS LauraS is offline
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Post Family of Missing NCL Passenger Speaks Out; FBI Investigation Continues

Cruise Critic has just posted the following news:

Family of Missing NCL Passenger Speaks Out; FBI Investigation Continues

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  #2  
Old December 30th, 2008, 01:41 PM
rammednoodles rammednoodles is offline
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Default Lost passengers and security problems

I am surprised that more isn't done on these ships to prevent some of the crimes that happen at sea!

Not saying that this particular case qualifies, but look at these stats!


Offenses reported on cruise ships. 1993 - 2005
Sexual assaults =149
Robberies = 4
Annual average
49.67
1.33
Rate of crime per 100,000 passengers
17.6
0.5
Rate of crime per 100,000 US citizens
32.2
136.7
Passenger count 2003 - 2005
31,068,000
Average passenger cruise length
6.9 days
Average annual passenger count
195,771
Daily crew size
86,035
Total annualized person count
281,806

I won't let my daughter go alone!
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  #3  
Old December 30th, 2008, 02:27 PM
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Now compare those numbers to the average city in the United States. Not to belittle the issue, but I think the numbers from cruise ships will look pretty darn good when compared to crime in a city of about 200,000 people. I know my city has had more than 50 sexual assaults each year, and WAY more than 4 robberies! Perhaps the Government should do something about it
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  #4  
Old December 30th, 2008, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rammednoodles View Post
I am surprised that more isn't done on these ships to prevent some of the crimes that happen at sea!

Not saying that this particular case qualifies, but look at these stats!


Offenses reported on cruise ships. 1993 - 2005
Sexual assaults =149
Robberies = 4
Annual average
49.67
1.33
Rate of crime per 100,000 passengers
17.6
0.5
Rate of crime per 100,000 US citizens
32.2
136.7
Passenger count 2003 - 2005
31,068,000
Average passenger cruise length
6.9 days
Average annual passenger count
195,771
Daily crew size
86,035
Total annualized person count
281,806

I won't let my daughter go alone!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterPan View Post
Now compare those numbers to the average city in the United States. Not to belittle the issue, but I think the numbers from cruise ships will look pretty darn good when compared to crime in a city of about 200,000 people. I know my city has had more than 50 sexual assaults each year, and WAY more than 4 robberies! Perhaps the Government should do something about it
Random US city current population just under 300,000
2005 2006 2007
Murders 63 56 52
per 100,000 19 17.3 16.7
Rapes 117 102 129
per 100,000 35.4 31.4 41.3
Robberies 1,617 1,722 1,596
per 100,000 488.8 530.5 511.2
Assaults 1,588 1,593 1,678
per 100,000 480.1 490.8 537.5
Burglaries 3,018 3,713 3,418
per 100,000 912.4 1,143.9 1,094.9
Thefts 10,337 9,658 8,977
per 100,000 3,125 2,975.3 2,875.6
Auto thefts 2,273 1,865 1,538
per 100,000 687.2 574.5 492.7
Arson 55 70 79
per 100,000 16.6 21.6 25.3

Sorry the table didn't work out
I'd rather be on a cruise ship!!
Rich

Last edited by richwmn; December 30th, 2008 at 04:59 PM.
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  #5  
Old December 30th, 2008, 07:38 PM
MDSue MDSue is offline
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[quote=rammednoodles;17480667]I am surprised that more isn't done on these ships to prevent some of the crimes that happen at sea!

What exactly should the cruiselines do? I'm just not sure how exactly they can stop a suicidal person from jumping, a homicial person from pushing someone. I suspect alcohol is a factor in many of the sexual assaults and other crimes, but how would the cruiselines prevent this from happening, short of limiting excessive alcohol intake. They can't put cameras in every stateroom or every balcony. I think most passengers would not accept that kind of intrusion on their privacy.
While I want to feel safe on a cruise [and I always have], I just don't know how each cruiseline can know the individual thoughts or plans of all of their passengers.
Overall I think it is quite safe on a cruise ship.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 01:17 AM
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LaFamiglia Cruisers LaFamiglia Cruisers is offline
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I agree with MDSue. Even though I travel with a group, I typically have my own cabin, and often will wander the ship in the evenings at the bars, discos etc. As a female, I also feel quite safe. It is all about common sense.
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  #7  
Old December 31st, 2008, 09:09 AM
cruisin'since'75 cruisin'since'75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFamiglia Cruisers View Post
I agree with MDSue. Even though I travel with a group, I typically have my own cabin, and often will wander the ship in the evenings at the bars, discos etc. As a female, I also feel quite safe. It is all about common sense.
I am in complete agreement about common sense. Add in responsibility for your actions. The cruise lines do what they are able to do, but it would be impossible, intrusive and proably illegal to continuously and constantly monitor their passengers every move.

Perhaps the lines could implant electrodes upon embarkation to enable ship's officers to control thoughts, as well. What a grand idea. I wonder why this hasn't been initiated as yet on every cruise line that really CARES about it's passengers, heh?

Common sense and responsibility for your own actions are unfortunately in short supply these days. The often told story line in all "situations" is that whatever happened is invariably the fault of some one else or some thing you had absolutely no control over.

If this troubled woman was in crisis, and it appears her family had some idea all was not going well in the general sense, than maybe a bit closer eye should have been kept on her? At least some sense of knowing where she was and what she was doing and making some effort to be in touch with each other every couple of hours? How is it possible that no one came in contact with this woman for way too many hours until they finally decided to report her "missing"? (I've been on over 100 cruises, and no matter how big the ship or how many passengers on the ship, you keep running into "your" people again and again, no matter how hard you sometimes try not to! )

My sympathies to all concerned. To everyone else, stop blaming the cruise lines.
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  #8  
Old December 31st, 2008, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisin'since'75 View Post
I am in complete agreement about common sense. Add in responsibility for your actions. The cruise lines do what they are able to do, but it would be impossible, intrusive and proably illegal to continuously and constantly monitor their passengers every move.

Perhaps the lines could implant electrodes upon embarkation to enable ship's officers to control thoughts, as well. What a grand idea. I wonder why this hasn't been initiated as yet on every cruise line that really CARES about it's passengers, heh?

Common sense and responsibility for your own actions are unfortunately in short supply these days. The often told story line in all "situations" is that whatever happened is invariably the fault of some one else or some thing you had absolutely no control over.

If this troubled woman was in crisis, and it appears her family had some idea all was not going well in the general sense, than maybe a bit closer eye should have been kept on her? At least some sense of knowing where she was and what she was doing and making some effort to be in touch with each other every couple of hours? How is it possible that no one came in contact with this woman for way too many hours until they finally decided to report her "missing"? (I've been on over 100 cruises, and no matter how big the ship or how many passengers on the ship, you keep running into "your" people again and again, no matter how hard you sometimes try not to! )

My sympathies to all concerned. To everyone else, stop blaming the cruise lines.
Her Mom was on the cruise too. Maybe DH thought she was with Mom & vice-versa. They said she had been in good spirits prior to the cruise & maybe thought there was nothing to worry about.
Suicide can happen in an instant & you rarely can stop it, unless you catch a person in the act. She knew she would not survive & made sure she was alone & wouldn't be rescued. Who could watch her 24/7? I am sure if they thought she would do that, they wouldn't have even booked a balcony cabin.
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  #9  
Old December 31st, 2008, 01:15 PM
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Did you read the full story? I don't see how her family could issue a statement that she committed suicide? It's very suspicious if you read about the earlier marriage problems and the husband's reactions after the incident....maybe she did jump, but in most cases, when it all comes out, the husband is involved in some way.

Anyway, we're going on our first cruise in July, and we're excited. After 40 years of marriage, I think I'm safe on this one, lol!
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  #10  
Old January 3rd, 2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rammednoodles View Post
I am surprised that more isn't done on these ships to prevent some of the crimes that happen at sea!

Not saying that this particular case qualifies, but look at these stats!


Offenses reported on cruise ships. 1993 - 2005
Sexual assaults =149
Robberies = 4
Annual average
49.67
1.33
Rate of crime per 100,000 passengers
17.6
0.5
Rate of crime per 100,000 US citizens
32.2
136.7
Passenger count 2003 - 2005
31,068,000
Average passenger cruise length
6.9 days
Average annual passenger count
195,771
Daily crew size
86,035
Total annualized person count
281,806

I won't let my daughter go alone!
Look at the assaults stats for ONE major US city for one year. This is rally very small. You are much safer on a ship than in any city.
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ONE HUNDRED DAYS ON A CRUISE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
139 days total.
Celebrity -33 days
Holland America-23 days
Carnival -21 days
Royal Caribbean- 19 days
NCL-18 days
Princess -21 days
Disney-4 days

I have cruised the Caribbean, east, west and southern; Alaska, Bermuda, a transatlantic which included North west Europe and East coast Canada, the Med., and a California coastal/Baja. I loved them all!

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  #11  
Old January 3rd, 2009, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by PenelopeCorelli View Post
Did you read the full story? I don't see how her family could issue a statement that she committed suicide? It's very suspicious if you read about the earlier marriage problems and the husband's reactions after the incident....maybe she did jump, but in most cases, when it all comes out, the husband is involved in some way.

Anyway, we're going on our first cruise in July, and we're excited. After 40 years of marriage, I think I'm safe on this one, lol!
I heard the 911 from last April call played on TV- she sounded more wacko to me than in danger from her husband. Perhaps he did hit her-but she may have hit him first- and sure he should not had struck her for ANY reason- but our natural reaction is to strike back.

You can't just look at things on the surface and jump to conclusions.
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ONE HUNDRED DAYS ON A CRUISE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
139 days total.
Celebrity -33 days
Holland America-23 days
Carnival -21 days
Royal Caribbean- 19 days
NCL-18 days
Princess -21 days
Disney-4 days

I have cruised the Caribbean, east, west and southern; Alaska, Bermuda, a transatlantic which included North west Europe and East coast Canada, the Med., and a California coastal/Baja. I loved them all!

What's booked: Celebrity Silhouette November 23, 2014
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  #12  
Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:39 PM
thinkpink thinkpink is offline
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something about the "bag of quarters and the maybe i'll have better luck" thing that the husband was heard saying ... rubs me wrong .. idk
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  #13  
Old January 4th, 2009, 08:12 AM
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something about the "bag of quarters and the maybe i'll have better luck" thing that the husband was heard saying ... rubs me wrong .. idk
That is terribly judgmental of you. How do you know what HECK he has gone through for the last year? who knows? He may have married this woman before he knew her well enough and had no idea she was bi-polar? After all, she was married to another man just 3 years ago.

Think about it-why did her mother go WITH them on their 1 year anniversary cruise? That does not speak well to me-obviously-he must have felt he needed her mother's help to do the cruise-but still felt he wanted to please his wife with a trip to celebrate.

My sister's grandson is bipolar. His mother was very young when she gave birth to him and so my sister pretty much raised him and he at 20, still lives with her.

Recently, she and I were on the phone and he came SCREAMING into the room for her to get off the phone so he could call a friend. Yes we had been on the phone for 30 minutes, but it was also her home, she pays the bills- that was uncalled for. I could tell you a few other HAIR RAISING stories about him. I don't know why she puts up with him, as she allows him to live with her, but she feels badly, as because of his emotional issues, he can't hold down a job and support himself, and both of his parents have written him off. I on the other hand, as her sister, fear for her life. I believe he needs to be committed.

You know the old saying "if you haven't walked in his shoes," I think you need to apply it.
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ONE HUNDRED DAYS ON A CRUISE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
139 days total.
Celebrity -33 days
Holland America-23 days
Carnival -21 days
Royal Caribbean- 19 days
NCL-18 days
Princess -21 days
Disney-4 days

I have cruised the Caribbean, east, west and southern; Alaska, Bermuda, a transatlantic which included North west Europe and East coast Canada, the Med., and a California coastal/Baja. I loved them all!

What's booked: Celebrity Silhouette November 23, 2014
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  #14  
Old January 4th, 2009, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by momofmeg View Post
That is terribly judgmental of you. How do you know what HECK he has gone through for the last year? who knows? He may have married this woman before he knew her well enough and had no idea she was bi-polar? After all, she was married to another man just 3 years ago.

Think about it-why did her mother go WITH them on their 1 year anniversary cruise? That does not speak well to me-obviously-he must have felt he needed her mother's help to do the cruise-but still felt he wanted to please his wife with a trip to celebrate.

My sister's grandson is bipolar. His mother was very young when she gave birth to him and so my sister pretty much raised him and he at 20, still lives with her.

Recently, she and I were on the phone and he came SCREAMING into the room for her to get off the phone so he could call a friend. Yes we had been on the phone for 30 minutes, but it was also her home, she pays the bills- that was uncalled for. I could tell you a few other HAIR RAISING stories about him. I don't know why she puts up with him, as she allows him to live with her, but she feels badly, as because of his emotional issues, he can't hold down a job and support himself, and both of his parents have written him off. I on the other hand, as her sister, fear for her life. I believe he needs to be committed.

You know the old saying "if you haven't walked in his shoes," I think you need to apply it.
I dont care how *JUDGEMENTAL* you thought that was... I was NOT passing judement on ANYONE.. I was just stating a weird feeling I had. It was just something in the back of my head ... I dont trust ANYONE these days .. and thanks I didnt need a run down of your sisters grandson who has nothing to do with this story.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by thinkpink; January 4th, 2009 at 12:44 PM.
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  #15  
Old January 4th, 2009, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thinkpink View Post
I dont care how *JUDGEMENTAL* you thought that was... I was NOT passing judement on ANYONE.. I was just stating a weird feeling I had. It was just something in the back of my head ... I dont trust ANYONE these days .. and thanks I didnt need a run down of your sisters grandson who has nothing to do with this story.

Have a nice day.
Yes it does-this woman was bipolar-and I was giving an example of bi-polar to you. It is a terrible illness-that can turn a wonderful loving person one minute to someone that you are terrified of the next minute. The mood swings are intense. Now many people go from happy to sad, but many others go from happy to angry, or they can go from happy, sad, to angry, the full gambit of emotions.

Unless you have had contact with a family member with this illness, you simply do not know the reality of this and so should not judge others who have to deal with this, and yes your comment was judgmental.

As you said, have a nice day.
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ONE HUNDRED DAYS ON A CRUISE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
139 days total.
Celebrity -33 days
Holland America-23 days
Carnival -21 days
Royal Caribbean- 19 days
NCL-18 days
Princess -21 days
Disney-4 days

I have cruised the Caribbean, east, west and southern; Alaska, Bermuda, a transatlantic which included North west Europe and East coast Canada, the Med., and a California coastal/Baja. I loved them all!

What's booked: Celebrity Silhouette November 23, 2014
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  #16  
Old January 4th, 2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
He may have married this woman before he knew her well enough and had no idea she was bi-polar? After all, she was married to another man just 3 years ago.

Think about it-why did her mother go WITH them on their 1 year anniversary cruise? That does not speak well to me-obviously-he must have felt he needed her mother's help to do the cruise-but still felt he wanted to please his wife with a trip to celebrate.
Now who's being judgemental?
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Old January 4th, 2009, 02:38 PM
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Now who's being judgemental?
Seriously! What a HYPOCRIT!!!!

by seeing this "Raymond Seitz has not been charged with any crime, he was arrested in April on a domestic violence and battery charge." that is also what put the thoughts into my head..

and where does it say she is bipolar?????

is this chick is CRAZY????
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  #18  
Old January 4th, 2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofmeg View Post
Yes it does-this woman was bipolar-and I was giving an example of bi-polar to you. It is a terrible illness-that can turn a wonderful loving person one minute to someone that you are terrified of the next minute. The mood swings are intense. Now many people go from happy to sad, but many others go from happy to angry, or they can go from happy, sad, to angry, the full gambit of emotions.

Unless you have had contact with a family member with this illness, you simply do not know the reality of this and so should not judge others who have to deal with this, and yes your comment was judgmental.

As you said, have a nice day.
Hmmm! By the sounds of your reply I'm thinking that you are not to familiar with bi-polar. In your other reply you stated that you feel your sister is not safe with her grandson. That people with bi-polar are dangerous.
Well I live with someone with bi-polar, and yes it is a severe case. Every person in this world is different as is the case with bi-polar. NOT EVERYONE WITH BI-POLAR IS DANGEROUS!!! Not every person becomes angry. In fact people with bi-polar often believe more in things that are magical. I learned this from doctors and support groups. In fact my brother likes to spread the word of world peace.
Bi-polar you can have extreme highs and lows. And the lows can be feeling sad not angry. Remember we shouldn't catagorize people everyone, and every situation is different.
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  #19  
Old January 4th, 2009, 08:43 PM
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Looks like none of us really knows anything, but we -I - have an opinion, anyway, lol! Whatever the truth is, it's very sad. I hope the mysteries are solved. I've been wrong about a lot of things - more so, lately, it seems. (Like the JonBenet Ramsey thing. The poor mom was crucified - I was ready to add a nail - then, years later, the mystery is solved). You just never really know anyone. Anyway, on to lighter subjects and news!...Anyone got any??
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Old January 4th, 2009, 09:57 PM
shasha14 shasha14 is offline
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You said it right. We have no idea what really happened. I think we need to take our judgments and turn them into sympathy for the family left behind.
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