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Posts posted by ted144

  1. Does anyone think that the March 14 Tokyo round trip cruise will not ultimately be cancelled?  The fact that there was a case of Coronavirus discovered in a recent former passenger adds another potential roadblock to an immediate return to “business as usual”. If they do run a trip on March 13, my guess is that occupancy will be below 50%. 

  2. 20 minutes ago, kazu said:


    I am surprised at that, as well.

    I think an offer has gone out for people who want to cancel to do so without penalty but so far...no cancellation?

    They have. It’s better for HAL to give a future cruise credit now for funds already paid, rather than officially cancel the upcoming 2/29 and 3/14 cruises. But cancellation is a real possibility. If they do cancel, my best guess is they would refund in cash (since they cannot provide what you paid for) plus throw in some credits. 
    So waiting until they announce either a new itinerary or a cancellation seems to be better than taking current offer. Might be more favorable and unlikely to be less than current offer. 

  3. 17 minutes ago, gatour said:

    According to another thread, they will be flown from Sihanoukville to another city (they name the city) presumably it has an international airport.  I will be a several day operation.  HAL is picking up all costs in getting passengers to their home towns. 

    More details on this from HAL update:


    Updated Statement Regarding Westerdam 

    Submitted by: Julie

    Update: 2/12/2020 3:30am Pacific Time

    Westerdam is now sailing for Sihanoukville, Cambodia, where the current cruise will end. We will arrive at 7:00 a.m. local time on Thursday, Feb. 13 and will remain in port for several days for disembarkation. Guests will be able to go ashore. All approvals have been received and we are extremely grateful to the Cambodian authorities for their support. 

    Guests will disembark in Sihanoukville over the next few days and transfer via charter flights to Phnom Penh for forward travel home. Holland America Line will arrange and pay for all flights home, in addition to the full cruise refund and 100% future cruise credit already communicated. 

    Future Westerdam voyage plans are still being finalized. The Feb. 15 cruise scheduled to embark in Yokohama has been cancelled. No cancellations for cruises with departure dates beyond Feb. 15 have been announced at this time. However, we are assessing the impact of current port restrictions in Asia on cruises departing Feb. 29 or later. We will communicate details as they become finalized in the next few days.

    Westerdam was on a 14-day cruise that departed Hong Kong Feb.1. There are 1,455 guests and 802 crew on board. The cruise was previously scheduled to disembark Feb. 15 in Yokohama, Japan. 

    All guests on board are healthy and despite erroneous reports there are no known or suspected cases of coronavirus on board, nor have their ever been.

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  4. 1 hour ago, sail7seas said:


    While I  imagine,  it could be hard on many crew,  How about Indonesia? 


    I seem to recall  there was some  question as  to possible infected cases there.  I don't know if they tested positive.



    I guess Singapore would work location-wise.  It none of the possibilities now is particularly close. Maybe 4 days to reach Singapore from where they are now, 8 am Wednesday local time. Given the downside of letting 2000 people loose in any city, with a very unlikely yet still possible threat that someone had been exposed, it’s become difficult for any country to readily agree as we’ve seen. 

  5. 6 hours ago, gatour said:

    That is exactly what HAL is trying to do.  Get passengers off the ship and back.  Kind of hard to do when no country is allowing them to dock.  With Thailand being the latest one after initially giving approval.

    I wonder if Vietnam was on the “possible country” list. I haven’t seen where this country had rejected the ship. 

  6. 6 minutes ago, wearesiamese said:
    1 hour ago, Level six said:


    Why don't you have travel insurance with "cancel for ANY reason" coverage?!

    Seems like a less than intelligent question asked in an insulting way.  For someone that has specific reasons for a policy like that- maybe a work schedule that may change- it can make a lot of sense. But a cancel for any reason policy costs more and returns 75% of trip payments vs 100% for regular insurance. 

    • Like 8
  7. Even with the facts known days before the February 1 sailing from Hong Kong, it was apparent there were risks in that part of the world. Carnival/HAL management put their collective heads in the sand and chose a path that they thought preserved cash flow. 

    It was heavy-handed to say the least that all was good, just take your cruise to new ports because we can change and there’s nothing you can do. At a minimum they should have offered refunds for those who didn’t want to go.

    So what happens now if the Westerdam passengers cannot disembark in Tokyo- which seems to be the case? Find a new port?  Keep the passengers in quarantine as is the case with the Princess ship?

    • Like 4
  8. The reference might be to “cancel for any reason” insurance.  

    There doesn’t seem to be any support for my position that HAL (or any cruise line) should be more flexible in a case like the present one. The 3-14-20 two week trip is called a China Adventure. When it’s totally changed, six weeks in advance, so that the trip bears no resemblance to the initial offering, it’s not the same as merely skipping a port or two on a journey.  

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  9. 24 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:


    Sorry -- our perceptions differ. I would rather take the offered trip than have nothing, for reasons already stated. HAL is not going to be able to make everyone happy.


    Perhaps if these types of issues are of great concern, you should purchase insurance that allows you to cancel for any reason?


    The offered trip is ok, but definitely a significant enough change to warrant more flexibility on behalf of HAL. Even credit towards a future cruise would be something. 

    Cancel for any reason Insurance is a great idea- for the selling insurance company. If one pays a premium of more than 10% of trip cost to potentially recover 75%, that’s a net return of 65% to the purchaser. 

    My best guess is that everything may change as the days go on, based on the impact of the coronavirus and its possible spread to more countries. Not sure how the Costa situation will unfold in Italy, but being on a large ship in cases like this is unsettling.  This virus may impact the entire cruise and travel industry if it’s not brought under control, which hopefully will be the case. 

  10. Bad HAL management decision- to tell people on a basically ONLY China trip (March 14-29) that a trip to Japan in its place is what they MUST take, or they can cancel on their own and lose half their money.  And deal with flight refunds on their own with the airlines. 

    I don’t think it’s wrong to change ports on the March 14 (formerly China) two week cruise and offer Japan as a replacement. And it’s obvious they cannot go to China now. 

    BUT, it’s obnoxious that HAL is not proactively at least offering refunds for those who signed up for China because that was the trip they booked.


    Many, but not all, will be fine with a replacement trip to Japan.  It is a very different trip- only similar thing is the date.. How can they not give current passengers a choice?  Right now they have put some (previously loyal) passengers in a terrible position. Either take a trip you didn’t choose or cancel and lose 50% of your fare. Lots of irreparable damage to customer goodwill.  A very poor corporate decision. 

  11. Hard to believe that Carnival is not canceling any cruises to China. This was announced a few minutes ago:

    Coronavirus: Celebrity, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises Refuse to Cancel or Refund Cruises to China

    January 28, 2020

    Several major cruise lines, including Celebrity Cruises, Holland America Line and Seabourn Cruises, are refusing to cancel voyages out of China as concerns grow about the spread of NYT-320x213.jpgthe Wuhan coronavirus. The New York Times published an article this morning that Hong Kong has restricted travel from mainland China due to the deadly outbreak as infections reportedly exceed 4,500.

    As of this morning, these companies have also decided not to refund their customers’ cruise fare for cruises scheduled to call on Chinese ports.  A regular commentator on our firm’s Cruise Law News Facebook Page states:

    “Sadly Celebrity Millennium is canceling nothing. Many are writing about it on the Celebrity Captain’s Club Facebook Page. As a result many are going as they have spent a lot. Celebrity is offering no credit or cancel option without losing it all. Pretty shocking.”

    A crew member employed by Seabourn who is working aboard the Seabourn Ovation, and who wishes to stay anonymous, states:

    “I guess my company doesn’t have the plan on cancelling our itinerary to Hong Kong this 1st and 2nd of February. Worst, it’s our embarkation day. They think they can avoid an infected guest going onboard on that day despite the incubation period of the virus which is 10-14 days. I hope they will change their mind. Coz its like we are going to a suicide mission…”

    The crew member in question states that Seabourn and its parent company HAL/Carnival Corporation do not have any new medical procedures to screen passengers who may have been exposed to coronavirus.

    Cruise travel writer Gene Sloan wrote an article yesterday titled: Cruise Lines Begin Canceling China Sailings as Virus Worries Grow which mentioned that Royal Caribbean, MSC Cruises, and Costa Cruises are all stopping operation out of China because of the virus and providing full refunds to their guests. Mr. Sloan writes that “Both Royal Caribbean and MSC Cruises said passengers on the canceled sailings would receive full refunds. Costa Cruises didn’t address refunds in its statement.”

    However, Holland America Line (HAL) which operates the Westerdam, which is scheduled to depart from Hong Kong this Saturday on a 14-nightvoyage to Taiwan and Japan that ends in Shanghai, refuses to either cancel the cruise or provide refunds to its customers. HAL will then sail the Westerdam on a 14-night voyage out of Shanghai that is scheduled to include calls at the Chinese ports of Qingdao and Tianjin (the port for Beijing).

    HAL states that in light of the outbreak, it will allegedly implement “stepped-up screening procedures” for its cruise ships, including a “requirement for temperature and questionnaire screening for persons from affected areas.”

    The anonymous crew member sent our office a copy of a HAL pamphlet (which also applies to Seabourn cruise ships) explaining how crew members should respond to guest inquiries about the feared virus, “should a guest inquire about our procedures or the Seabourn-320x203.jpgcompany’s response to the illness, you can simply reply:”

    “Your health and safety are always are top priority. Our medical experts are always in close contact with international health organizations. We are taking many precautions – as we always do – to prevent illness onboard.”

    Passengers aboard the Seabourn Ovation which will be sailing from Vietnam across the South China Sea on January 31st, and calling on Hong Kong on February 1st and 2nd, will be sailing to a port which other cruise lines have prudently cancelled on their itineraries.

    It’s a shame that Celebrity, HAL and Seabourn are refusing to cancel and refund the cruises to Chinese ports and, in the case of HAL/Seabourn, requiring crew members to issue talking points dreamed up by clueless shore-side executives. Perhaps now that Hong Kong is closing its China borders as the coronavirus spreads (as of this morning per CNN) these greedy and irresponsible cruise lines will bend to public pressure.


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