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Posts posted by sndral

  1. 6 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:


    Yes, I saw that. So the CDC is just looking out for the welfare of the passengers!  Touching.  Re the clueless passenger who pulled down her mask, I was thinking the same thing.  It might be a stretch to attribute that scene to the CDC, but that scene certainly did not help anything.   

    I expect that the CDC is looking at the research and based their decision on studies like this one https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339572058_COVID-19_outbreak_on_the_Diamond_Princess_cruise_ship_estimating_the_epidemic_potential_and_effectiveness_of_public_health_countermeasures .

    The study concluded that the best thing for passengers is to get them off the ship ASAP, because although ship board quarantine lowered the R0 compared to not quarantining, the R0 even in quarantine was higher than it would have been if they’d been off the ship. I assume the CDC has access to not yet published data identifying high risk categories for spread and that information is driving decisions - at least I hope so.

  2. 4 hours ago, Travelnplane said:

    Wonder why they chose Miami which is packed with cruise ships where at least the Crew is still on board over a rather empty Port Everglades with the two HAL ships

    Most likely because Zaandam/Rotterdam filled 14 hospital beds in the PE area and may need more since they will still have sick/positive people on board. The Miami Officials’ statements mentioned that they had availabile medical care in Miami.

  3. 32 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:


    They are not supposed to be going into the open world, everyone of them is supposed to go home into a 14 day self quarantine in place as a condition of being allowed to dock.  The Mayor of Fort Lauderdale explained this today during a news conference and will be enforced in Florida but who knows in other states.  That is my concern.

    According to one of the articles linked at least one of the charters is going to the West Coast and the passengers on that charter will then go regular commercial air to their destinations. Another post mentioned someone on board going on a charter to SFO and thereafter commercial. I wonder if the fine folks in Florida had the decency to give Governor Newsome a courtesy call letting CA know that the protocols FL thought necessary to protect Floridians were not needed to protect Californians, maybe the 5 hour flight deactivates the virus? At least California’s arrangements to isolate/quarantine all Grand Princess passengers protected the rest of the country and commercial air travel.

    My hope is that w/ the use of masks and self isolating once home the repatriated passengers will not contribute to the crisis on their way home or in their own communities once they arrive.

  4. 4 hours ago, chamima said:


    Fresh air is good for everyone and the virus isn't magically waiting in the air. 

    Actually, unfortunately, the latest research as well as the choir outbreak in Wa. suggests that although we don’t know for sure, there may be airborne transmission. https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-can-spread-as-an-aerosol.html 

    Hope for the best, but also assume the worst when it comes to protecting yourself given how much is not known about transmission IMO.

  5. 15 minutes ago, the_thunderbird said:


    The Canadians are probably all or close to all foreign, not foreign nationals (a Canadian foreign national would be a full time resident of the US). 


    I've been following this thread out of personal interest, I'm the Commander of a Canadian military unit that was tasked with assisting Canadian repatriation from cruise ships in early March, and a previous cruiser. Such an interesting and tragic situation here.  


    The (Canadian) passengers on these two boats are going to be in a very difficult situation when they dock. Many likely don't have travel insurance right now, unless purchased with this specific travel package and it included an extension provision. In the first week of March near all Canadian insurers removed international leisure travel because of Covid-19. Additionally, I suspect support from the Government of Canada will be somewhat minimal, albeit not totally non-existent. The Travel Advisory for cruise ships was posted three or four days before the Zandaam left. Canada offers minimal consulate services to those that travel contrary to an advisory; this one was also very, very well published in the media because of the significant Government efforts to repatriate Canadians from cruises going on during the first week of March. 


    That said there's likely enough passengers here for an Air Canada Bridge flight or too, Florida still has some minimal services to Canada. Hopefully a swift return is ahead, and an uneventful isolation on their return. 



    Interesting. The travel advisory against cruise travel in the USA issued 3/8, the day after Zaandam left Buenos Aires. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/08/coronavirus-state-department-cruise-ship-travel/4998017002/

  6. 38 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:


    At least the passengers off our two ships have been quarantined for many days, which is more than what the TSA officials can expect from their land-based passengers.

    We learned from the Diamond Princess that ‘quarantine’ on a ship even confined to cabin did not work and resulted in exponential growth of COVID-19 positives, thus the fact that the passengers on Zaandam and now Rotterdam have not been on land is worth nothing because they have been exposed during their entire ‘quarantine’ onboard. 

    I’m personally tired of the ‘check everyone’s temperature’ routine since the data now shows (see cite up thread) that 25% are asymptomatic transmitters of the virus, plus people infect others for an average of 2 days before they become symptomatic.

    Ideally those who are carriers need to be identified and isolated rather than risk further spread of the infection, IMO, and the only reliable way to do that is to test.

  7. 2 hours ago, capriccio said:


    According to the Port Everglades update: There are 1,243 passengers aboard the Zaandam, including 305 U.S. citizens and 247 Canadians. There are 49 Florida residents on board, including several Broward County residents.





    And according to this article there are currently a total of 2500 passengers and crew on the Zaandam and Rotterdam. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-30/sick-crew-keeps-cruise-ship-running-risking-spread-of-virus

  8. Interesting article regarding passengers choosing not to be tested  https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEN0qPv-qPtBHbPkvKChqWfYqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowhK-LAjD4ySww69W0BQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

    Last report I read said there were 19 from the ship (up from 2) currently in Monterey at Asilomar CA state conference grounds.

    ETA link & it looks like there are now 21 at Asilomar https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/18/21-passengers-now-at-asilomar-showing-mild-symptoms-of-covid-19/

    Officials won’t confirm it - but it appears they’ve chosen to house COVID-19 positives not needing hospital care from the ship at Asilomar. They’ve fenced off part of the grounds.

  9. 3 hours ago, caribill said:


    And I have seen nothing that says they will not be in quarantine at two bases in California or in bases in Texas and Georgia.


    The other posts about at-home quarantining have to do with local cases, not the the passengers from the Grand.

    CA Governor Newsom said at his press conference yesterday that some passengers will be housed in hotels/motels they’ve rented https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/california-governor-newsom-updates-on-coronavirus-mcas-miramar-expected-to-receive-cruise-passengers/509-060f6520-c5ea-42ba-97b7-4be119d5f9de

    I posted that they were using the Asilomar state conference site/hotel in Monterey for up to 24 passengers last night when someone sent me a text about it. https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2020/03/10/grand-princess-evacuees-coronavirus-headed-monterey-county-covid-19-california-cruis-ship/5016334002/



  10.  https://www.montereycountyweekly.com/blogs/news_blog/several-grand-princess-cruise-ship-passengers-to-be-quarantined-at/article_e082fc1e-6328-11ea-8048-4b9bca392020.html

    Looks like some will do their quarantine in Monterey County CA. For those who don’t know, Asilomar is a state owned conference ground. I’ve stayed there for two conferences. I’ve also stayed as a public visitor reserving rooms. I’m not sure how they’ll keep them segregated unless they intend to post guards at their doors - it is an open sprawling facility. Asilomar has a dinning Hall, but I don’t think they have room service, so I’m not sure how they’ll get meals to the people in quarantine. Asilomar is sited amongst pines and has a walking path through dunes to nearby Asilomar Beach but the rooms are rustic and fairly spartan, and, except for a cottage or two, no TVs. 


  11. 27 minutes ago, Pushka said:

    There haven’t been any figures released on those people who have recovered have there? That would be very (hopefully) reassuring information to have. And as we haven’t heard of any deaths then hopefully that means that everyone will have eventually recovered. It will also be interesting to know of those who were testing positive, had no symptoms at all. 

    Some of the news articles last night had the numbers: 1219 total tested w/ 355 positive (29%); of the positive tests 73 were asymptomatic (20% of positives-asymptomatic.)


    edited to add link to article where I saw the numbers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/coronavirus-70-more-cases-on-japan-cruise-ship-as-china-infections-pass-68000

  12. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/14/national/japan-clear-coronavirus-cruise-ship/#.XkepdaaIafA

    Two interesting things from the article, first it appears what will happen on 2/19, when quarantine is ‘over’ isn’t yet clear.

    Second, the positive case in Okinawa from Friday 2/14, was a taxi driver being monitored because she had contact with passengers from Diamond Princess when they ported in Naha on 2/1.

    Edited to add - based on the post above it looks like plans for how to end the quarantine have firmed up.

  13. 35 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

    You obviously don't understand what an incubation period is. To put it simply it is the time between a person being infected with a virus to when the virus has multiplied sufficiently in the new host so that symptoms are apparent...

    Per the CDC there appears to be asymptomatic transmission of the virus - https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-13-20-intl-hnk/h_8d935a8b6df385aba0cbfdb30cd3aeac

    I believe that the Japanese authorities have been testing those who manifest symptoms and those in close contact w/ them, the results of those 492 tests (unknown how many were retests of the same individual) were 218 positive, so of those tested approx. 44% positive. I’m wondering how many will test positive from the next batch of tests which I believe are of passengers who have no symptoms and no close association with a known positive.


  14. 52 minutes ago, kathy49 said:

    I would think the charter would take them to an airport where everyone can make connections home...doubt if separate charter to each country?

    Correct, my mistake - see npcl’s post #623 on pp. for correct info..

  15. 6 minutes ago, npcl said:

    According to HAL's letter it will take a few days to get everyone off of the ship.  They said that will use charter flights to Phnom Penh. So one would expect that the passengers will be put on commercial flights there (paid for by HAL).

    Thank you for explaining - I missed the Phnom Penh part and was wondering where all of the chartered planes would come from, of course there are a lot of idled planes at the moment w/ all of the canceled flights.

  16. 3 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:


    I don't think anyone is going to complain about the debarkation port at this point. I think debarking will depend on flights. If HAL is picking up the cost of these flights, I would expect that they're making the bookings. Who gets booked first? Probably people who booked their flights through HAL to begin with and people for whom seats on the appropriate route are available.


    If HAL is arranging chartered flights it will be different from a normal booking. Presumably the whole plane will be filled with Westerdam passengers flying to an airport in their home country. So who gets off the ship first will most likely depend on the logistics of arranging the chartered airplanes. Once the passengers arrive in their own countries via the chartered planes I assume they’ll be able to continue to their home airports via normal bookings. 

    Many years ago the FAA shut down the airline I was flying the day before I was leaving Maui, the company I’d purchased my flight through had a lot of stranded passengers on Hawaiian holiday packages and they chartered a plane to get us all home.  It happened to be a Delta plane they chartered - I’ve had a fondness for Delta ever since. 

  17. 5 hours ago, gentlemancruiser said:

    NCL has cancelled all asia trips until December.  Norwegian Spirit from April to December. 

    Not exactly, NCL decided to not send the Spirit to Asia post dry dock from Europe, the Jade, however, is still in Asia & her cruises have not been canceled. Jade ported in Hong Kong just over a week ago.

  18. 10 minutes ago, Merion_Mom said:

    Would you like to hear a story?


    A funny/not funny story?


    Ok, so I started this thread to get away from the labyrinth of the other one, since this one is about the here and now.


    I boarded the Anthem on January 5, and took three 11 night cruises.  So when I got off today, I had been on board for a little longer than a month.


    Because my cruise was so long, I did what I usually do:  I called Dave's Best Limo, a Philadelphia-based shuttle service, to take me to Cape Liberty on January 5 and pick me up today.


    While we "waste" a lot of (my) time driving around picking up or dropping off other people, I am certainly not going to pay 33 x $25 to drive myself and park in the garage.  (Don't even do the math; you'll puke).  And I have to wait until they get there to pick me up, and that time can vary A LOT.  They come up with a load of new passengers, drop them off and pull up to Zone 9 to pick up us, the departing passengers.    When I called at 7:30, I was told that the van would be there at 9:30.  I was standing outside at 9:15 in a cold drizzle, with nowhere to sit and only a small canopy to huddle under.  The driver actually pulled up at 10:20.


    I learned about the new passengers being sent away by our shuttle driver.  He said, "I just dropped six people off with their luggage, and the porters told them they couldn't take their bags; they were being sent away."  (we didn't really care about them, but he said that Dave's would send another driver to pick them up if they wanted to go home; they probably got an Uber to a hotel once that was announced)


    So that's how and when I knew about the delay.


    The driver told us that we had a person already in the van, and we had to take him to JFK!  And we were picking up someone there!


    Now, if you know your geography, you know that JFK is far away and in the opposite direction from Philadelphia.  But it's a shared van service, and this is the risk you take, although it has NEVER happened to me before, and I use them a lot.


    So..............indeed, it added about two hours to our transit time.  I didn't get home until almost 2:30.


    But that's not the funny/not funny story.


    So, here we are, just disembarked from a ship with a potential case of novel coronavirus, and the news media are freaking out, and every one on Cruise Critic is freaking out, and everyone on Facebook is freaking out.  My son-in-law the TV news reporter texts me and asks if I know anything, and if I want to be interviewed on TV!  (HA! NO!)


    We drive to JFK, drop the guy off at one terminal, drive around, and pick up a woman at a different terminal.  I veg out in the back of the van, starting this thread and generally checking out social media, texting with my son, etc.


    At one point, the other couple in the van who had also been on the January 27 cruise, asked the woman where she was returning from.


    Her answer?


    "Oh, I was in China for three weeks."


    And there you have it.





    Hope you don’t have any cruises planned for the next 15 days since you now are in the banned from cruising category of having been in ‘close’ contact w/ a person who’s been to China, Hong Kong, or Macau ...unless it was a very large van?

  19. 2 hours ago, Kimba2 said:

    I think that I would smoke anyway.  Seriously, what could they do - kick me off the ship?  

    It’s been years since I quit that nasty addiction - but when I traveled as a smoker I usually carried enough packs to get me through my travels and a little extra but not enough extra for 14 days & the ship stores are closed so no resupply. So @ some point most smokers, whether they obey the no smoking edict or not, will become @ least temporary non smokers if only because they’ve run out of cig.s.

    I always take a cross stitch project and knitting mostly to do on long plane flights, but at least I’d have that to occupy me if I was sentenced to solitary confinement on a cruise ship. Someone upthread wondered about solo travelers, IME most solos are comfortable with solitude - maybe not 14 days worth - but still they have experience w/ it, I’m more concerned with those in packed cabins or cabins w/ children needing to be entertained. Not being able to excercize except for pacing in the very small space of the cabin would be hardest for me, I think.


  20. 3 hours ago, nadinenurse1 said:

    So legal, people reading, tell me this,  it appears the majority of us here  are thinking  this is a frivolous type of law suit,  there is verbiage in the contract not to do this, not a act of cruise ship negligence, the direct unauthorized result of a incorrect human action, ( who besides Michale Jackson dangles a baby outside  a window many stories up ). Can a judge dismiss this as a invalid suit ?  If it goes to court  Can you imagine the cruise contract we will now have to sign, which will cover anything any idiot might litigate for. Thank u in advance 

    I’ve read that RCI has filed a motion to dismiss, which I assume would be a 12(b)6 motion alleging the plaintiffs have failed to state a cause of action in their complaint. If the Judge grants that then yes, the case is dismissed, although sometimes plaintiffs are allowed to file an amended complaint to correct whatever defects there are (dismissal w/out prejudice.)

    During discovery RCI can also file a motion for summary judgement and if the Judge grants the summary judgement motion the case is dismissed as well. Summary judgement is a ruling on the merits, so that ends the case, but plaintiffs can appeal the ruling.

    Personally I would be somewhat surprised if a motion to dismiss was granted, but I would not be surprised if the Judge granted a motion for summary judgement in RCI’s favor in the future.

    But I’m no expert in federal civil litigation - my only experience w/ it was when a guy I convicted at trial and sent to prison for several years sued me, the cops & our agencies pro per in federal court for convicting him. That case was dismissed via summary judgement. 



  21. On 7/14/2019 at 4:34 PM, TAD2005 said:


    Heading back to the Marco Polo airport, get another water taxi and they will drop you right at the airport terminal where you roll your bags to the checkin counter.   Very easy.

    Just FYI, if you opt to take a water taxi or the Alilaguna shared boat to Marco Polo airport the walk + schlepping your luggage from the pier where the boat drops you to the terminal is about 10 minutes. I assume there are most likely porters, although I’ve never used one.


  22. http://www.adr.it/documents/10157/16175834/T3+arrivi_20190306.pdf/5bfce7fa-b982-4de9-93e6-b8495da10f74

    I can’t speak to HAL, but if it’s like RCI, it was pretty easy last October. Assuming you have a shared/bus transfer.

    Here’s a map of FCO terminal 3 arrivals. On the left you’ll see an icon of a guy w/ a hat holding a passport  that’s were you’ll go through customs/passport control. After you go through passport control you’ll head to the baggage carousels which are the boxes with suitcases numbers 3-11 on the map. After you’ve collected your luggage head to where it says T3 on the map by the little cafe area where there are people holding signs with your ship’s name. You can’t miss them. You check in with them, they check their list to mark you off & you just go where they direct you.

    Note, I arrived the day before and stayed at the airport Hilton and just walked back over to the T3 arrivals area, so if you land in one of the other terminals you should be able to find your way over to Terminal 3.

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