DougK

I'm no expert on Basel at all. I've stayed there once before, at the Hotel Victoria. I chose it that time for its location right by the train station, as I was leaving on the train the next morning. The hotel was fine, but nothing memorable at all, with no particular charm. This time I looked for something a little closer to the Old Town, and based strictly on online reviews, booked the Steinenschanze Stadthotel. I'll find out next month whether that was a good, bad, or indifferent choice...

This is not a big deal at all, but still a little disappointing: I'm going on a Scenic cruise next month, starting in Basel. I'm fortunate enough to be in a suite that qualifies for private transfers. The problem is that I'm not flying in the day of the cruise; instead, I'm going to be in Switzerland, travelling around and doing some other sightseeing for the week before the cruise, ending up at a hotel in Basel the night before the cruise. From a pure standpoint of logic, one would think that Scenic would be willing to provide a transfer from the hotel to the ship. After all, sending a private car 3 or 4 miles is a lot less expensive than sending one over 50 miles to the Zurich airport. But Scenic doesn't see it that way. I inquired (through my travel agent) and was told that the transfer only applies to the airport--if we want to go back to the Zurich airport that morning, then they'll provide a transfer. I completely understand the logic if it was a general (not private) transfer, where they're accumulating passengers from multiple flights before transferring, but here it's a private car, so it's literally Scenic choosing to send a car 50 miles, but refusing to send it 4 miles. As I said, not a big deal at all--we can easily get a cab. And it's more or less what I expected, since I didn't really think Scenic would pay attention to logic. But still a little disappointing, and a poor choice on Scenic's part considering the goodwill they would have garnered by providing a transfer at not much cost to themselves.

I can't speak for Viking either, but Scenic also gives a credit--don't know the exact amount, but somewhere in the $1000-$1500 range--if you don't take free air. I've done that because I tend to plan my own air and extend my vacation on one or both ends of the cruise.

Just for kicks, I just took a quick look at the current locations of the Scenic ships. A couple of them are in Arnhem (one of the locations mentioned above), but the bulk are in Budapest! Wasn't expecting that...

Don't give up hope. My vague recollection from my cruise back in 2018 was that the onboard cruise director was able to make changes to pre-bookings, and possibly find additional spots. I'd definitely inquire as soon as you board.

Thanks so much! I only knew about the Quote button at the bottom of the post. Interesting. I had tried just replacing "scenic" with "viking," "uniworld," "avalon," etc. and came up empty-handed. As I poke around more, it appears that OTLO is the service provider, and a few companies contract with it. The only names I recognize are Scenic, TUI, and ARosa. Plus KD, which does local cruise excursions. But the only ones I can find the actual cruisemaps for are Scenic and TUI; plugging in "arosa," "kd," etc. doesn't work for me, and an Internet search also comes up empty (or more accurately, keeps pointing me back to the Scenic cruisemap).

Since I can't figure out how to quote previous posts in sections, I'll just generally respond. 1) The website is http://www.anyoverip.de/scenic/ There's no information that I can discover that says who sponsors it. I also have no memory of how I first ran across the site; it was at least five years ago. All I know is that I've found it very useful. Right now, when it comes up there's a notice of a problem with Google Maps, but if you just hit OK it seems to work. This has happened a couple of times over the years, but has been corrected after a few weeks--I don't know whether the same will happen again, or whether it's a sign the site is dying. I'll keep my fingers crossed. 2) I have no objection to Scenic changing their itineraries from year to year. In fact, like you, I think it's a good thing, and facilitates repeat passengers not just seeing the same thing again and again. I do think, however, that if they choose to change an itinerary after a passenger is already booked on the cruise, they should notify that passenger! Maybe it was just a slip-up in this case, but I fear it's more likely a general practice, in line with Scenic's woeful administration. They provide an excellent product on board, but I'm far from the only one with issues with their off-board administration. 3) I recognize that there are many factors that can change the times: lock congestion, water levels, local authorities, etc. Nonetheless, the reality is that there's a high degree of consistency between cruises. And Scenic (like all cruise companies) clearly has this information itself for internal purposes, including contracting with local transportation, guides, etc. I would also note that there is similar variability in ocean cruising due to weather, local conditions, etc.--I have been on many ocean cruises where the schedule is adjusted en route, including cancelling or switching ports. Nonetheless, ocean cruise companies regularly publish expected times, and I don't understand why river cruise companies can't do the same--with the clarification that it is subject to change based on conditions. At a minimum, I would think they could make a distinction in their itineraries between "drive-by" ports and those where the ship is docked for over 24 hours--but for some reason, they apparently don't think that's of interest to people. Even for the majority of people who go on included tours, I think it would be nice to know whether or not there is going to be significant time in port beyond the tour, to explore other sights, shop, sample cuisine, etc. Take Antwerp as an example. There is a fabulous sculpture park there (the Middelheim Museum) that is not included on any of the tours. Knowing that the ship is going to be in port all day allows somebody to visit the park after going on a tour, rather than having to decide to skip a tour in order to see the park. On the other hand, with a drive-by port, there's no point in researching local attractions, since there will be no feasible option to get to them. 4) It's not an all-or-none situation with going on included tours (although I personally fall close to the none line on the spectrum). People may choose to go on a number of included tours, but then go off on their own some days for sites of particular interest to themselves. And in order to do that, it's necessary to have some idea of whether it's logistically possible. For example, let's suppose somebody wants to visit Burg Eltz, a lovely castle about 20 miles away from Cochem. If a passenger is going on this cruise from Basel to Amsterdam, that quite feasible--even after an included morning tour--, since the ship doesn't leave until late evening. But if the passenger is instead on the cruise from Amsterdam to Basel, it would be quite difficult, since the ship leaves around noon. Or, for another example, the Kroller-Muller Museum is about 20 miles away from Arnhem, and has the second-largest collection of Van Goghs in the world. When I first looked at this cruise back in 2019, I discovered that it would be impossible to visit because Arnhem was pretty much a drive-by stop. Now, with changes in itineraries in the ensuing years, it becomes much more feasible, especially if going from Amsterdam to Basel. Yet Scenic's description of the stop is essentially the same today as it was in 2019, other than the addition of a new optional tour. 5) Please don't take anything I'm saying as a slam of Scenic in particular; as far as I know, most river cruise companies are the same in this regard, though I vaguely recall somebody posting earlier this year that they were able to obtain a time schedule from their company. I choose to go on Scenic because I love their product. I recognize that it may not strictly make financial sense, as opposed to going with another line that doesn't include tours. But even if it's not financially smart, I much prefer the all-inclusive model, where I don't have to buy individual parts of the cruise separately--just (over)pay at the beginning, and it's done with. I know I'm not alone in this; just look at the recent thread on tipping tour guides on Uniworld--people aren't objecting to the financial cost of doing so, but instead to the hassle. I also enjoy the food quality on Scenic, and fear it may be worse on a less-luxury line. And, as a very personal point, I'm lucky enough to be booked in a Royal Panorama suite--I believe Scenic is alone in having these cabins with both side and rear windows, or at least they were when I last researched it. Is it worth paying the premium price for this? There's no objective answer to that. But, at least for now, I'm happy with my choice.

Scenic, like most river cruise lines, does not provide any information about times or durations of its port stops. Instead, they only list a port for a given day (along with excursions available there). In reality, that port stop can run anywhere from virtually no time at all (stopping just long enough to discharge passengers) all the way up to 24 hours or more in a port. Perhaps this doesn't matter to passengers who don't care about spending time in a port other than on included tours, but it is more than a bit frustrating for those of us who like to plan independent sightseeing. Fortunately, there's a website--unclear to me whether it's associated with Scenic or not, but it appears to only exist for Scenic ships--that has historical tracking information that allows one to see where every Scenic ship has been, reported on an hourly basis, going back to 2014. With this information, somebody with enough time to waste can figure out what the actual times were in past years, and that often applies to future years as well, since the itineraries tend not to change much. Since I'm going on the Romantic Rhine & Moselle cruise next year, I went to this effort--both directions, because when I started the project I hadn't yet decided which direction I was going to go. Since I now have the information, I figured I should share my results with the board, in case somebody else is interested. So here goes. Please note that a couple of stops are speculative, since Scenic recently changed the itinerary for next year, dropping Maastricht as a port, adding Utrecht instead, and reordering a few stops around that. (One other gripe about Scenic's lack of transparency: that itinerary change happened after they announced the 2024 schedule with their "early access" brochure, but they didn't bother to notify me as a booked passenger, just silently updated the itinerary in the current brochure and online, where luckily I happened to notice it...) Nonetheless, I think the information below is still largely reliable, and I'm using that for my own planning. Times are not exact, but typically vary by only an hour or two. And, of course, there are also exceptions to the schedule listed due to particular circumstances (such as low water). Overall, however, there's a high degree of consistency between trips. Basel->Amsterdam Day 1, Basel Typically leaves Basel around 8pm; in about 20% of cases, the ship actually starts in Breisach (and presumably passengers are bused there from the airport, skipping Basel altogether). Day 2, Breisach Arrive early morning (usually before 5am) and leave late evening (around 10pm) Day 3, Kehl/Strausbourg Arrive early morning (around 5am) and leave early afternoon (around 2pm). Due to a change where the Enrich concert is no longer taking place at Rastatt, it's quite possible that next year the ships will spend more time in port and not leave until late afternoon or early evening, but that's just my conjecture. Day 4, Mannheim Arrive early morning (usually before 4am) and leave early afternoon (around 1:30pm). Day 4-5, Rüdesheim Arrive on the evening of day 4 (typically around 7pm), and leave the next day in early afternoon (around 1:30pm) Day 5, Rhine Gorge Start within 1/2 hour of leaving Rüdesheim, so around 2pm, and reach Lahnstein around 5pm, where there is an unlisted stop for about 5 hours (until 10pm or so) Day 6, Cochem Arrive around 7am and leave around 9:30pm Day 7, Bernkastel Arrive around 7am and stay over 24 hours, not leaving until the next day around 9am Day 8, Moselle Cruise This is an all day affair, from the time Bernkastel is left until past sunset, arriving in Koblenz somewhere around midnight. Day 9, Koblenz As mentioned, typical arrival is around midnight of day 8, and almost 24 hours is spent in port, not leaving until around 11pm. Day 10, Düsseldorf Arrive around 7am and stay all day and evening, not leaving until 11pm or later Day 11, Arnhem Arrive around 7:30am and stay until mid-afternoon (3:30pm or so). Departure is a little speculative, since the next port in 2024 is going to be Antwerp, instead of Maastricht, but I think the timing will still be about right. Day 12, Antwerp Arrival is speculative, but I'm guessing will be by 8am. Departure will be around 7pm. Day 13, Veere Arrive around 7am. Previously departure has been early afternoon (around 2pm), but I'm speculating that it may be later in 2024, perhaps around 6pm, since the ship now only needs to reach Utrecht overnight, not Amsterdam. Day 14, Utrecht I'm speculating this will be a full day stop, arriving in the morning and staying through the evening. Day 15, Amsterdam Arrive around 6am, perhaps earlier since only coming from Utrecht. Amsterdam->Basel Day 1, Amsterdam In previous years, the ship has left around 8 or 9pm, but it's possible it will be later in 2024, since the ship now only needs to reach Utrecht overnight. Day 2, Utrecht I'm speculating this will be a full day stop, arriving in the morning and staying through the evening. Day 3, Veere In the past, the ship hasn't arrived until about noon, but I'm speculating that it will be by 7am since the ship is coming from Utrecht. It should still leave around 6:30pm. Day 4, Antwerp Arrive early morning (around 4am), and probably still leave around 7pm, although that may change since the next port is Arnhem, not Maastricht. Day 5, Arnhem My best guess is that arrival will still be around 9am. Departure is late evening (around 10:30pm). Day 6, Düsseldorf Arrive around 11am, and leave around 7:30pm. Day 7, Moselle Cruise Start on the Moselle around 10:30am at Koblenz, and end at Cochem around 5pm. Day 7-8, Cochem As mentioned, arrival in Cochem is actually around 5pm on day 7; departure is around noon on day 8. Day 8-9, Bernkastel Arrive around 9:30pm on day 8, and leave around 3:30pm on day 9. This might change since the Enrich concert is now listed as being on day 9--but I'm speculating that it will actually take place on day 8, with a stop early evening to disgorge passengers to bus to Trier, returning to meet the ship in Bernkastel. Day 10-11, Koblenz Arrive around 6am on day 10, and stay over 24 hours, leaving around 7am on day 11. Day 11, Rhine Gorge As mentioned, starts around 7am at Koblenz, and ends around 1pm. Day 11, Rüdesheim Arrive around 1:30pm, and leave around 10pm. Day 12, Mannheim In the past, this has pretty much been a "drive-by," arriving around 7:00am, and leaving by 9:00am. But since the Enrich concert has been switched to Trier (rather than Rastatt later on day 12), there should be time to make this a full port stop, not leaving until early afternoon. Day 13, Kehl/Strasbourg Arrive early morning (4am) and leave late evening (11pm) Day 14, Breisach Arrive morning around 8am, and leave late afternoon around 4pm. Day 15, Basel Arrive very early morning (before 1am) I hope this proves of interest to other Scenic passengers.

Regrettably, I was not on a cruise last spring. I was supposed to be on a Scenic cruise, but it was cancelled shortly before sailing. We chose to go to Europe anyway, and did some exploring on our own, including around Cochem. I don't know whether any of the cruise companies offer Burg Eltz as an excursion, but it would be nice if they did.

I was in Cochem last spring. I agree that the Historische Senfmühle is completely underwhelming. After locating it, and having to do a double-take that the modern building was really correct, I did go in, but saw only the gift shop. The mustard was quite tasty, and I bought some, but it's not a place I'd go to again. Reichsburg is pretty, and there are multiple paths to get there or back, some more suited for walking than the direct steep street. And the town itself is worth wandering through. But what I most enjoyed was going to Burg Eltz (about as far away from Cochem as Ulmener Maar, 15 miles or so). Not only is the castle itself lovely, but there is good hiking in the surrounding grounds and country.

For the vast majority of people it won't make any noticeable difference. However, for a few people in high-end suites, it makes a big difference, as there are some differences between the suites on different ships. This is most noticeable for the Royal Panorama Suite, which is 475 sq.ft. on the Jasper/Opal/Amber and has separate sleeping and sitting areas, but is "only" 325 sq.ft. on the other ships, with sleeping running right into sitting. If I shelled out the premium price for a Royal Panorama Suite on the Jasper, I'd be pretty disappointed to be moved to the Ruby. (Though it would definitely beat being converted to a bus tour!) That's addressing the question specifically with regard to Scenic; I understand Viking longships are clones of each other, and have no idea about other lines.

I'm largely in agreement with pontac here. I may be in the minority, but I *like* time cruising on the boat. Sure, not all areas are as scenic as the Moselle and Rhine Gorge, but even the "boring" parts of the rivers and canals can be quite peaceful. I quite enjoyed the cruising day on the Main I had back in 2018. I also really dislike bus trips, and am not a fan of guided tours (as almost all excursions are). So I like when the ship is docked in or near a town for an extended period, so I can wander at will and find hidden treasures. But I have little interest in what I call "drive-by" stops--where the ship stops at some point along the river to discharge passengers to buses that take them to the town, while the ship continues along the river to a later point where it stops again to pick up passengers from returning buses. Those "stops" involve potentially extended bus trips, a lot of waiting around, and not so much time in the actual destination town, especially for somebody who wants to wander on their own but not risk missing the bus back to the ship. That's what Scenic did on the Jewels of Europe--Miltenberg is listed as a stop, but if you look at ship trackers, you will see that the ships don't actually spend more than an hour at most in Miltenberg; they continue sailing past while the passengers have been bused from earlier point to a later point. I'd probably just as soon stay on the ship. But to each their own, and I recognize that the excursions are the high point for most people, at least judging by this board.

Scenic's Romantic Rhine & Moselle cruise also has a full day of cruising on the Moselle. For a few years (including when I took it in 2018), Scenic's Jewels of Europe (Amsterdam to Budapest) also had a full day of cruising on the Main; their current version has instead added a stop in Miltenberg.

This is really frustrating. I have a friend who might be interested in taking advantage of this deal for solo travelers. But there doesn't appear to be any way to find out which sailing are among the "selected sailings," short of calling a travel agent. Scenic's web site shows the offer (https://www.scenicusa.com/special-offers/solo-travelers-river) but not dates, and just says to call them or a travel agent. The friend isn't at a stage of certainty where she wants to potentially waste an agent's time, but that appears to be the only option. Or she'll just pass.

There will be information about the rest of the trip at the Welcome Reception, but it's really not critical. I'm sure the staff will be willing to fill you in later with any important information. And, if I recall correctly from my Scenic cruise, the port talk is recorded and available to be played later on the in-room TV for those who miss it. Canal Archive is correct that an evening cruise through Budapest is lovely, seeing all the illuminated buildings. But I'm not sure whether Scenic still does that--I know some cruise lines stopped after the tragic accident in 2019. It's not listed in the Scenic itinerary--but I just checked and it wasn't listed back in 2018 either, when it definitely did happen on our cruise. You might want to consider booking a separate evening sightseeing cruise during your pre-stay.

As I said, it all comes down to personal preferences. For me--and I freely admit that my priorities are likely different than those of many other people--one of the priorities was getting a Royal Panorama suite on the Opal, Amber, or Jasper. I love having the view out both the side and aft. And the perk of full meal room service is important, since sometimes just having a picnic on the bed is preferable to the long dinner service in the dining room. With that priority, it meant a choice between 22May, 17Jul, or 7Aug. May has the least likelihood of water level problems (late enough so flooding is unlikely, and early enough that low water shouldn't be a concern). The downside of May is that plants may not be blooming yet or even leafing out, including the vineyards. I prefer not to be traveling during the peak seasons of July and August due to crowds (plus possibility of heat). There's more daylight with the May dates than the August dates, and even a little more than the July dates. Plus the May dates fit in nicely with my schedule. So it was an easy decision for me--but that's with *my* priorities. Personally, I'd be a little nervous about water levels in late August, and maybe a tad about heat. I'd be concerned about lack of daylight in October, limiting available sightseeing; plus thinking some venues will have reduced hours due to being well past peak tourist season (though the tradeoff is that there would be fewer crowds). And maybe getting chilly, especially by the end of the cruise. Between the two, I personally would probably go with August, but I can see arguments for October.

Yes, the Royal Suites book very quickly. I jumped on it last October when I discovered that the itineraries had opened on their web site (with no announcement whatsoever that I ever saw). I don't have personal experience to compare Royal Balcony and Deluxe Balcony suites, and of course your personal priorities affect the significance of the differences. But as I see it, the big differences are a smaller room in the Deluxe (no separate seating area), and the loss of a few perks: unlimited complimentary laundry (I think the Deluxe on the Diamond gets one smallish bag of complimentary laundry for the cruise plus daily pressing), daily canapes, full meal room service, Captain's cocktail party, priority dining reservations (which I don't think has a lot of meaning, but presumably gives you some choice as to which day you do Table La Rive and Portobellos), daily newspapers, packing/unpacking, and private transfers (within Europe). For many people, these perks have limited value; for others, they're significant--only you know for yourself.

I'm on the Scenic Opal, leaving Basel on 5/22/24.

I wouldn't necessarily give up on Scenic because of Trier. Although it appears that Charming Castles and Vineyards of the Rhine & Moselle only goes to Trier for the concert, you might want to take a look at Romantic Rhine & Moselle. It goes from Amsterdam to Basel (or vice versa), along with several days in the low countries, and several days on the Moselle. Although it doesn't dock in Trier, it does dock in Bernkastel, and one of the tour options from there goes to Trier. If you really want to go all out on Trier, I'd recommend going from Basel to Amsterdam. Although Scenic, like most river cruise lines, gives no indication of what the actual times in ports are, I've done some research on it, and it turns out that on the Basel->Amsterdam trip, the ship (on average) spends over 24 hours in Bernkastel, arriving around 7:30 in the morning and not departing until around 9am the following day. So if you're adventurous, you could take the ship tour to Trier in the morning, depart from the tour, and spend the whole day in Trier exploring, making your way back to Bernkastel via train/bus in the evening. It doesn't work as well in the opposite direction, since in that case the ship arrives (on average) in Bernkastel around 9:30p, leaving around 3:30p the next day, so not really giving a lot of opportunity to depart the ship tour, explore, and still get back before the ship leaves Bernkastel. But you at least still have the option of taking a Trier tour. PS I, myself, am going on this cruise in 2024, from Basel to Amsterdam.

Although it's about 4 miles away (so you'd probably want to bike or taxi), if the weather's good, I would highly recommend going to the Middleheim Museum. It's a very large sculpture park, with sculptures dating back to about 1900 and continuing up to the present day. When I was there last year, it was a little scattered and the signage/maps didn't totally align with the actual sculptures, but it's supposedly undergoing a large renovation this year, so perhaps it's better. Even with that minor shortcoming, I loved it--probably the best sculpture park I've ever visited.

The Rüdesheim excursion is definitely not new. It's exactly what has been offered since at least 2017. The only difference is they now mention the purpose of the Niederwald Monument ("which marks the 19th century unification of Germany") instead of saying "for a spectacular view of the river."

There's no announcement that I'm aware of, certainly not on Scenic's USA web site, nor are brochures for 2024 available. For that matter, it doesn't even appear that their search function works for cruises in 2024. However, if you look at any specific itinerary, it now shows 2024 dates along with the 2023 dates. Apparently those "in the know" have been aware of this for a little while, since several of the random smattering of cruises I looked at are showing that some of the high end cabins are already fully booked. So if you want one of those, act quickly. Or if you just want to plan for 2024, you now can (with some effort). Personally, I'm taking another try at the Romantic Rhine & Moselle cruise that Scenic cancelled on me this spring with almost no notice--I'm hoping that the issues coming out of the pandemic will have all been sorted out by 2024, and things will be back to normal, with the same excellent experience I had to 2018 pre-pandemic.

Here's my very quick takeaway from the article, without including any copyrighted material: A passenger has a cruise booked with Vantage for this summer, which just got "postponed" to August 23. Since Vantage is calling it a "postponement" rather than a "cancellation," Vantage is refusing to do a cash refund, and instead only giving future credits, which the passenger doesn't want because she's 93 and has no idea whether she'll be physically able to use credits in the future. (A further complication is that the current cruise was itself a rebooking using credits from another cruise "postponed" for over a year.) The passenger has "cancel for any reason" insurance purchased through Vantage, but that insurance only provides for credits if the passenger cancels. The NYT columnist wasn't able to get a response from Vantage, and suggests filing a complaint with the state attorney general. And notes that, even though it defies common sense, the fine print in the Vantage policy appears to claim that it is Vantage's right to only give credits.

I'm kinda curious about what Scenic is doing this year as well. It looks to me like the Romantic Rhine & Moselle cruise on the Crystal (due to go from Amsterdam to Basel) ended at Koblenz a couple of days ago (actually docking at Andernach). The Crystal then headed north again, with a stop at Cologne. I'm guessing that's perhaps the result of a ship swap (perhaps with the Jasper). But there doesn't appear to be a ship on the other side of the Rhine Gorge heading up the Rhine, so I have no idea what happened to the Crystal passengers. Hotel and bus tour? Cruise cut short? Something else? Does anybody have any idea? Similary, any info about the actuality of how they're applying their "River Cruise Cover" to compensate guests would be most appreciated.

Perhaps the Aare?