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cdwise

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Everything posted by cdwise

  1. The answer for me is simple. Much as I enjoy cruising with 3-4 a year I will not set foot on a cruise ship if a mask is required,. If the EU suggested guideline of "cohort" and/or "by age" grouping is implemented. We go on cruises, primarily trans ocean cooler weather cruises where getting pampered and enjoying good food, entertainment and dancing. Persian gardens, therapy pools are all things I enjoy. Proposals that make the buffet served instead of self service and certainly acceptable, heck we've been on Holland ships where the buffet had crew members doing the serving. Reducing density of lounge chairs, and things of that nature including having a ship with 5% empty cabins are all doable. While I've never been on a ship I felt was unclean but adding UV and other sanitizing is certainly acceptable though closing all public restrooms so that you'd have to go to your cabin any time you needed to use one is not. When the EU recommendations came out we converted the FCC we had originally selected for one of the 3 cancelled cruises to cash since until we know what the future of cruising will look like I can't say if we will ever cruise again. If it is the EU proposed guidelines from the Cruise Critic article last week, the answer will be never. If it is something close to pre covid then we will but I'm not going to spend tens of thousands of dollars to be locked down on a ship.
  2. Well I didn't mean that not cruising would be putting your life on hold but if you are not going to do anything that could expose you to getting the virus then you would be putting your life on hold. What I did mean was that if your criteria for doing anything that could expose you is a vaccine or "almost" zero infections then you would be.
  3. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the page where the CDC declared that influenza in the US for the 2018-2020 flu season passed the level set for a pandemic in the US as of December 18, 2019 but it seems to have disappeared. I did still find the one for 2017 influenza season https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/02/09/this-flu-season-has-now-reached-pandemic-levels-but-its-not-technically-a-pandemic/ which does say that it isn't "technically" a pandemic just reached and subsequently surpassed pandemic levels. Whether the shutdown of the world was or was not necessary will be something for forensic scientists to determine when we do have data comparing countries that didn't shut down with those that did. In the meantime given that there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus I'm not going to put everything on hold for one. .
  4. If you are going to put your life on hold until there is a vaccine or a "near zero" infection rate I hope you really enjoy staying in your home. Life is not safe. Influenza dills tens of thousands every year in spite of vaccines. There has never been a vaccine for any coronavirus as far as I can find from researching the subject, No I'm not a doctor or other medical professional but I have been extensively trained and have decades in experience when it comes to research. Coronaviruses account for 40% of the common cold, primarily winter colds. The rest are mostly rhinoviruses. SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV are examples of previous cornonavisues Covid-19 aka the "novel" or new SARS-CoV-2 that appeared in 2019 belongs to that same family, SARS hit Asia hard in 2003 while MERS 2012 & 2015 was even more deadly just less contagious. Neither has a vaccine. Ebola another pandemic illness took 19 years before a vaccine was available. We will cruise again and hopefully in October when using the FCC we took for one of our 3 canceled cruises this year. That is with or without a vaccine, whether or not my husband and I get Covid and develop antibodies before then. I have a suspicion I've already had it after an international event I attended end of January so when an antibody test is available where I live I will take it just to know one way or another. In the meantime life isn't safe. They are health risks to staying home and doing nothing for months as well as from getting some virus (influenza reached pandemic levels in the US Dec 18, 2019 but you didn't hear the call to shut the world down for it or any of the previous influenza pandemics of the last 3 years). Hopefully I'll see some of you onboard, if not, enjoy staying "safe".
  5. I'm merely quoting what the article says. If Carnival who apparently made the comment said that the can keep Cunard idle for 6 months if necessary then who am I to dispute it?
  6. I have a question for all of you who are saying to get a vaccine out as early as possible under emergency authority. So what happens if something is rushed out and turns out not to be terribly effective like the 2017 influenza vaccine and turns out to have long term side effects that lead to a lot of deaths? Are you going to be suing the manufacturer who used their best efforts to give you what you want without having the time to test properly. Think of haw many drugs that went through long term sometimes multi year trials before being approved that when put out into the general public instead of controlled matched studies were found to have serious side effects in the broader world. If double blind studies (which we have had very few of right now) conducted under strict protocols didn't find the problems with drugs that were subsequently recalled why do you think rushed to market vaccines will work without major side effects?
  7. According to https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/two-carnival-cruise-lines-including-cunard-shutter-cruises-through-july-31-2020-04-24 Cunard has reserves that means they can stay completely shutdown for 6 months if necessary. If the world isn't allowing cruises by then it won't be just cruise lines and the travel industry that will not survive. We are considering using our FCC we took on our cancelled Cunard for an October trip if I can get my TA to clarify what might happen if that should not go forward. If we did book and it got cancelled I wonder if I'd get 125% of the newer booked fare or just whatever difference there might be and whether the 48 cancellation option would apply since it would be past the current dates.
  8. When the ships docked and the plans to people home were made the agreement document did state that there were passengers from countries that would not allow their return and that those passengers would stay on board. Si I expect that some if not all of those 29 fit in that category. Limited numbers of commercial flights are still flying. The reason for the limited number is that few people are choosing to fly and most essential folks have already gotten where they need to be.
  9. I checked today and there were 27 flights from NYC to DEN. I know that I'd prefer to be on a flight with 130 cruise ship passengers than any of those flights.
  10. Right so you have two passengers who live in small town Midwest so you are supposed to charter a plane for 2 people to say Salida Kansas, Port Aransas Texas or other such locations where there may or may not be an airport? I still say that the cruise ship passengers are less likely to be positive than any random person who decides to fly under the current situation. Unless they have an "essential" need to travel such as a doctor going to provide treatment in a high incidence area they are more likely to be exposed because they don't care about risk/exposure. You know like those spring break party folks. A chartered flight of UT students to Mexico had over 50 cases from one news report and not all of them who flew down on the charter came back on a charter either since UT was closed they flew back to their home towns.
  11. From the pictures I've seen of flights recently I'd have been surprised if there were very many other people on the scheduled flight anyway posted on twitter where there were as many as 8 rows between people.
  12. First place my comment was that yes, I would fly on that same flight even as a passenger sitting near one of those evacuated and I'm a high risk individual. Not that anyone else has to do so. As has been clearly stated so many times you have to assume that anyone you meet may have been exposed to Covid-19. If you don't then you are simply being foolish. So either you continue to fly as flight crew or you don't. This flight doesn't present any more risk than any other flight currently in the air. We got a phone call that my mother in law's assisted living complex has had a case of covid-19. They have allowed not a single visitor for the 2.5 weeks prior to their first case. Everyplace around here is shut down other than food, gas, repair facilities. Heck, her electric wheelchair developed a problem and we can't even get a repair done on it until after the shutdown. Extra precautions have taken place in all the assistive living and group homes including antiviral fogging in the corridors and even more stringent than normal cleaning routines. Yet, despite the shutdown and the fact that the workers all know they are interacting daily with a very vulnerable population it still managed to get in. Second, I truly believe that the cruise ship passengers are as safe, possibly safer than any other person flying right now. While we know that people on the ship did come down with the virus we also know that the people on this flight have been monitored for more than two weeks for any sign of infection. We also know from published studies that even if you get the virus depending on the severity you are not longer contagious after 5-12 days. Yes, there is some evidence of asymptomatic infection but that can be said of anyone not just cruise ship passengers. The very fact that they've been in cabin isolation for 14 plus days mitigates that risk in my view. I've seen other places where people are still flying to attend weddings, visit family and other "frivolous" reasons. I too have flight attend friends who are still flying. I also have friends who are paramedics, work in hospitals with far greater risk to their health on a daily basis much less during this pandemic. How would we all be if they decided to stay home to avoid a much greater risk than a flight attendant has?
  13. That article said Princess hasn't requested to dock in Ft Lauderdale. Broward County Mayor Dale V.C. Holness said Friday that the Princess cruise has no formal request to arrive in Fort Lauderdale and had not submitted a plan for disembarking its 1,898 passengers and crew. If they decided to appeal to Fort Lauderdale, he said, it’s likely the county will expect the same conditions negotiated with Holland America, which shares the Princess’ corporate ownership. It also said that the Regal Princess delivered supplies to the Coral Princess. I'm wondering if covaid test kits were among the supplies since docking procedures and requirements may differ depending on whether or not the sick people recently reported are or are not covaid 19
  14. Too true and not just in bankruptcy proceedings though I hope it doesn't come to that for the cruise lines. We may see some brand consolidation though.
  15. No, it is a coronavirus more closely related to the common cold - 40% of winter colds are caused by coronaviruses than it is to the flu. Closest relatives are Sars and Mers. That's why drugs developed for those as well as HIV and Ebola are showing the most promising in treatment of cases.
  16. As long as they have a US office they can per https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/bankruptcy/bankruptcy-basics/chapter-11-bankruptcy-basics since for a corporation a place of business can be their "domicile or residence". Usually the state in which they are either incorporated or have filed foreign corporation registration in is where they would file though some corporations have been known to forum shop which jurisdiction to file in. Hopefully though it won't come to that. I know I received an email from Royal Caribbean's President outlining the financing they have lined up to take them through this crisis.
  17. Speaking as a retired lawyer a lot of that was already floating around from other agreements since this mess started. This is why I said that that the terms and conditions for docking should have been agreed upon at least a week ago and probably as soon as the port shutdowns started. Anyone who didn't foresee that ships would be coming back to home ports with passengers on board was being very optimistic/unrealistic at best or callous at worst. Certainly the Grand Princess issue should have put them on notice. I suspect that a lot of the language came from that event. Though I do think the stay on board, assess health, put on low passenger density buses and straight to the airplanes done if Florida is better than the clear, wait in tents at a cargo terminal done in California. The most important part is that once terms and conditions were set the cruise line stepped up and met them quickly and people will be in their own homes or whatever their locale requires soon.
  18. Until a slight variation emerges next fall. Or the next sars, mers, ebola type disease gets out in the wild like H1N1, HIV, etc. Looking at some of these posts even though I've got many years to reaching 70 I'd never be allowed out or on a cruise because of chronic not contagious conditions including seasonal allergies that cause cough or sneezing. Seriously people, have you never had a cough or sneeze from something that wasn't infectious?
  19. I don't know what my parents did with me as the oldest but I remember my brothers in the early to mid 60s had a chest harness that was clipped to a strap that went around the backseat enabling them to sit down, lay down, when toddlers to stand but not move side to side. I use a similar harness on our dogs but now with a clip that fastens into the seat belt lock. Back on topic most of the "recommended" changes are already in effect in most of the ships we've been on that have come out of refurbishment all has hand washing stations near the buffet. Something I was glad to see because I prefer to wash my hands over using sanitizer. In fact I usually go into the bathroom next to the buffet and wash if I'm on a ship without one. I've seen crew replacing tongs, spoons, etc frequently on the buffets. Some lines do have servers on the buffet and I'm okay either way. Same with ice cream dispensers, some ships have them on the pool deck as self serve others have them with the hard ice cream served by a crew member. Occupancy limits are posted on all pools and hot tubs, your choice about using them. Exercise equipment just like at my rec center at home has wipes. Use them before and after if you are concerned. If you don't see a container or two of them ask at the spa desk and you'll get them refilled. I do like the idea of water bottle filling stations which few ships have. Coughing, if you expect nobody who ever has to sneeze or cough not to go in public areas of a cruise ship, do you expect the same at home? If so, a lot of folks like me who take a medication where cough is a known side effect or folks with allergies and other not contagious medical conditions would never be allowed out of their house. Cover your cough, sure. If you think it is something contagious say in but otherwise your expectation is completely unrealistic. Oh and you better ban scents as well since they can cause some people to sneeze. Remember if you see behavior, especially on the buffet food lines like putting food back that was touched by human hands let a crew member know and they'll replace the tray. Otherwise, do what you are comfortable with when it comes to pools, spas,
  20. They can if they have a "connection" to the US aka corporate presence doing business but likely it would have to be the parent companies which in many cases are US corporations filing.
  21. From what I saw in the information we received about our cancelled cruise if you didn't use HAL and had expenses related to changing flights you could contact them and they would help with getting you on flights and any change/cancellation fees incurred. So if you did have additional costs directly related to the changes not covered by travel insurance I'd suggest calling them. On a side note, when I was reading the disembarking conditions one of them was no cough for 24 hours. Since a medication I take has a cough as a side effect I'd be stuck on the ship forever as I've had a cough since I started taking it over a year ago. Nothing to do with seasonal allergies which also cause a cough. Way too many other reasons to have a cough than this virus.
  22. The cruise lines had been footing the bill for every repatriation since the shutdown so why anyone would expect this to be different I never understood. I’m sure there will be some negotiations between the cruise lines and the travel insurance companies for indemnity where people who have been evacuated have such policies as we do for every cruise and out of the US trip we take but other than possible premium increases for next year’s policy that won’t affect the passengers. The flight departures and order as well as number for each flight is in exhibit 2 to the agreement.
  23. In the second exhibit it says passengers are instructed to wear masks until home. What got me though was: “ Did you see this “We are planning to repatriate the majority of Fit for Travel individuals by early Saturday morning. The only exception may be a few individuals whose home countries will not accept inbound citizens. These guests will be flown on the Atlanta or San Francisco charter flights on Friday.”“ If the 265 number of Canadians is correct looks like 22 of them are either deemed not fit to travel or possibly are some of the many Canadian citizens who have winter homes in Florida and are choosing to go there. Who knows. One of the deceased wa from the UK so that only leaves one UK citizen not going straight home. Too hard to tell about other nationalities but looks like a lot of Europeans based on the number flying to DeGalle. .
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