tfred

we were on Apex Retreat a few weeks ago. Shade is in short supply in general. There are some umbrellas although they are scattered. There sees to be a morning crowd that disappears about lunchtime. Then an afternoon crowd. Dont expect to show up at 1030 after breakfast and even find a lounger, let alone one win the shade

We were on Apex in January and the photographers were out in Luminae - we were surprised s they have been there for a very long time I used to work for Fujifilm who worked with the photo concessionaires on board They were mostly UK firms that had a guarantee plus a very high percentage of the gross taken by the cruise line - upwards of 70%. It was a big enough money maker for the cruise line at the time That was around 2005 or so when film was on its way out. The average pax would have their picture taken 5 times and everything was printed. That was ok when there were 1500 -2000 pax (10K pictures on the wall). When pax count started going up the amount of floor space require to display became too large, That, as well as trying to find your pictures now among 30k hanging on the wall made it impossible. Digital is easier for everyone, but the tactile feel of a print in your hand made it easier to buy. Once you hold it then it becomes "real". I assume that X still jobs it out to a concessionaire. Princess does it in house.

I agree - just very difficult to do. Look at any airline, cruise, hotel or credit card these days. Cut backs started out surgical, now they are "ooh" changes. Any number of items get eliminated along the way. Some are meaningful for everyone, some are small and really didn't do much anyway but corporately cost money. The balancing act is keeping enough of the old services that mean something to long term customers and offering familiar services to new customers (which these days means land based vacationers - not poached cruisers from other lines)

Many cruise lines (and most hospitality businesses) look similar on the back of the brochure. Ports, food, service. No shortage of fans of individual lux properties/ships I wish Marriott was the same as it was 30 years ago but it isn't. Wouldn't be enough to make me switch completely over at this stage. Once you get over "there" there are too little things that I found annoying enough especially at those dollars Yes, covid was good cover (and legit) to make all sorts of changes. Every company constantly evaluates what offers value to the end users. What was critical 5 years to cruisers now cost a ton of money and no one remembers it We were on Moon last summer with 20% of the ship "newbies". I talked to enough of them and they were amazed at the experience. Couldn't wait to sail again. Most were "young" and were experienced vacationers but not "cruisers" - exactly who SSea wants to join the party. The new people's needs are definitely different from whatever went on before. No way to bring back the old ways.

And certainly on the Rhine the ships all start and finish in Amsterdam and Basel. Most of the stops are identical as well.

We took two cruises with the now defunct Crystal River - Rhine summer and Xmas market Danube - a few years ago. They were spectacular. Same size ship as the X (they all are standard size) but with 110 pax instead of the 180 that X is quoting. That extra space was quite noticeable. X is a competitor of Viking and they will do well. SSea, if they get a river ship, would be looking at the AMA crowd. However the SSea ship couldn't be a cloned X ship with better food. It has to reduce pax size to the low 100s.

The flip side of taking your business elsewhere is that you don't have any status at the new cruise line. No one knows you, you have to re-learn all the little things that you sorted over the years - menus, drinks, staff I have lifetime top status on Marriott and they will do many nice, little (and sometimes big) things for me. If I walk into a Hilton I got nothing.

We rafted next to the Mozart on the Danube a few years ago and they let us walk on since we were on Crystal Debussy Uniquely larger than the other Rhine ships and it looks like it when you are onboard. From the pictures I have seen, Riverside kept the decor (which was beautiful). The downside is that very few potential customers would know the Riverside name - it would require a knowledgable TA to get that sold. X is well known, SSea is somewhat known but you have to be an experienced cruiser.

Viking River is by far the market leader but that is done by advertising and salesmanship, not the food. Its ok but certainly not any better than X Ocean MDR (especially E Class) YMMV We did two Crystal River cruises a few years ago. Crystal 110 pax vs 180 on Viking or X makes big difference. Plus the food was SSea level on Crystal. X can't do that with a 180 pax ship. X River will be aimed higher than Viking - if that is the reality is another issue. Certainly won't be less.

We were on a Crystal River (actually two) a few years ago and still talk about it. They had 5 ships at the time. They had half the pax of a Viking ship (same size), with every aspect of it spectacular Silversea could fit into this market especially with their attention to newer, working wealthy crowd they are attracting.

We eat every year in Luminae and don't find it "meh". Some of the posters that you read here are either very selective eaters or are serial cruisers where the Luminae menu would be repetitive after a few weeks We recognize many of the items every year which is ok since we like them. You can look at the X app and see what they menus are and if they are to to your taste

I guess we will see what they come up with. It will be a quality product I am sure. The ship is really just a floating hotel so mcc of the time is off ship in town - which is pretty close to the dock. Plenty of time to interact with the locals and be back for drinks and dinner. We did two Crystal river cruises a few years ago and loved the river cruise concept One was Basel to Amsterdam in the summer. The second was a Xmas market roundtrip Vienna. Crystal was absolutely phenomal. 110 pax (vs 180 ish on Viking or X). All the ships are the same size that extra space really makes difference. You could eat anytime you wanted.

Many people would think that X is premium although not luxury. Service is great, food is pretty good especially on Edge class Silversea is not.a well known brand to most cruisers. X is well known and doesn't require any explanation If someone knows SSea then that expected cruise would be very high end with smaller pax count and more space for everything.

doubt it. Took a quick look at Viking River and there doesnt appear to be any accommodation for single fare on their site These ships are small (180 pax) and they want every dollar possible. That will mean every bed full with paying pax

Have you priced any river cruises? They are all expensive - even the smallest cabins. Prepare to be shocked.

In an earnings call (link is downstream from this post) the CEO said 180 pax. There will be some small rooms on that ship. Some Viking cabins are 135 ft2 - same size as your living room rug. We had been on 2 Crystal River cruises at 110 (actually there were about 90 on each) and it was fantastic. Even the "small" rooms were good sized at about 250 ft2

360 view from the top deck, just like every other river cruise ship

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/celebrity-to-operate-river-cruises-after-agreeing-10-ship-deal-50156 No, it isn't Silversea but if you want to see where the Royal Group money is going in the future ....... 10 river ships under the Celebrity name. The Rhine and Danube are the usual routes but there could be some long term cross promoting of combined cruises of ocean on week one and river week two with Silversea or Celebrity

Bold move by the Royal Group. They can be successful in that market and they certainly have name associated with travel, vacations and cruising. I think the Edge class reference is more the color scheme and general design rather than a specific feature - other than the IV - which is what you get on a river cruise. We had done 2 river cruises on Crystal - absolutely fantastic - and woul hope that X does more a Retreat style experience on the river ships. None of the river cruises are inexpensive so why try to compete with Viking level mid market and go a little more lux

The USP for them is the X name. Viking River is more mid market than anything else, but they own the river cruise market by volume. Much of that volume is the name as they promote the hell out of it. Uniworld , Ama, Avalon are not well known to most travelers in the USA and would only be taken by a strong recommendation from a travel agent or friend.

We are Elite on X as well and have used the laundry service on X as well. That service is the 2 day return with all wrinkled clothes The SSea service is 10 steps above the X service. It is a proper laundry service that returns clothes same day on hangers. Small items are returned wrapped in tissue paper. I do not think that "pressing" is actually included. That would be blazers, suits and the like. I did have a linen style blazer done and not charged but ...... We sent out laundry every morning by 9 am and it was returned by 5 pm that afternoon. Our cruise was a Rome-Venice in August so the weather was warm and we changed often. It really made a big difference in what we packed I would verify with the butler and then send out what you need, even if that is every day.

Our experience on Moon as well this past August.

It's a no brainer for any cruise line. Food costs are a big component of profitability on board. Why stock and cook menu items no one eats? The next part is how often do they change the menu (not the 2 week cycle). Every year? Do pax want the same menu items next year on their annual vacation or do they want enough new items to make it fun. We sail out of FLL on Celebrity X in a suite every January as it is easy for us living in south Florida. the menu is exactly the same (as well as the bigger production shows). Part of me likes the menu familiarity, the other parts says "how about one or two new items?"

Carnival, as a corporation, really is in the weakest position of all. Covid has them in a giant hole financially Carnival has made upper mgt changes to SB and HAL looking at increasing profitability they have to show value to both shareholders and pax. If elements of the hospitality experience aren't used onboard they are either going away or changed to something that is. That said, some changes (plonk Publix level wine, less than memorable spirits) are universally reviled.

I was way better about multi stop/hotel vacations when I was younger - 70 now. That is an advantage of cruising in some areas. We have done southern Italy in a car and on a cruise. Both fun, but the cruise is more attractive now.