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Doubt It

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  1. HMR74 and Ride-The-Waves, your posts are excellent and spot on regarding the attitude of Celebrity. Celebrity has been downgrading their product since about 2015. Their corporate attitude since this time has been to stiff the consumer, but then, it is the consumer who chooses to get stiffed. The new pricing scam is just another example of Celebrity arrogance. I will wait and see what Celebrity offers on a consistent basis and measure them against their competitors and the premium lines, and that will take many years to determine. In the interim, myself and our travelling group, are ready to book numerous land trips, not a penny to the cruise lines. Celebrity can charge what they like but that does not mean anyone has to purchase.
  2. Greetings TeeRick: It appears it is the provinces, ie the same approach as in the states. The approach here in BC is different than for my sister who lives in Ontario. The other thing is that there has been no official statement from the provincial government as to the distribution priority list - ie no open and transparent communication. We learn things via the media and FB and Twitter posts. Not good at all. I am not impressed.
  3. phoenix_dream, Support your assessment 100%, thank you for posting. The vaccine distribution does seem willy nilly in terms of any consistency from location to location. For example, my 93 year old father is in a retirement home, I guess he will eventually get the vaccine. I however, just got an email from the retirement home saying I can get the vaccine asap as I visit my father. Not sure I am pleased with putting me first. I support as #1 priority the elderly and immune compromised before any one else. Not seeing this happening.
  4. Jeremiah1212, that is the same situation with the people we know. All professionals, so have the $ to travel but they have not taken cruises in the past - they do land trips so they can see the places in detail. I am the only one who regularly cruises, they simply call cruising "fake". This also speaks to other threads on Celebrity, about chasing the younger crowd, not sure about that either. To the one, no one will consider a cruise and like you said, the Petri dish comes up repeatedly. So, if they were not inclined to cruise before, then add in the Petri dish context, then add in the lingering effects of the virus, I would think there will be significant hesitancy for the public to cruise. Not sure even the vaccines will dislodge people into being more amenable to cruising. People will long into the future make decisions that give them more flexibility and ways to manage distance, cruising is not that. Time will tell of course.
  5. Well I am not so sure about the public's appetite for cruising. At the nursing station at my father's retirement home, a discussion was underway with three PSW's. They were talking about travel and one stated no way would she ever cruise as cruise ships are petri dishes. The other two ladies jumped in and agreed and the passion in their statements was significant. I asked them if they had ever cruised, each said no, but two said they had been thinking about it. Those three ladies represented possible future customers for cruising, I doubt that they will consider cruising ever. All three were totally against cruising as a vacation option. These ladies are just 3 so I would extrapolate there are many other consumers who no longer will consider cruising. Cruising has an uphill battle for customers.
  6. DC, thank you so much for your comment - the issue is "what is the problem..." You are totally correct and the current distribution plan I see in Canada and elsewhere is not based on this fundamental question. As yes, TeeRick, it should be data driven - ie triage: highest % for death, those that take care of the 1st group, then the group that has the worst lingering issues after the virus: 1) Elderly 2) Hospital staff 3) Staff taking care of elderly 4) Immune compromised So why is my 93 year old father in a retirement home not receiving the vaccine ahead of the staff? He is more probable to die from the virus, therefore, he should be ahead of them. My dad is also more probable to end up in the hospital from the virus, so there again, he should be first. Not pleased what so ever with the distribution plan and I most certainly been politically active making my displeasure known. Thanks to everyone for the sharing of their amazing knowledge and analysis.
  7. Thank you ipeeinthepool, most interesting. Well any company can do what they wish, it is up to the consumer to decide what their tolerance is and if they buy it. Time will tell about Celebrity's current fantasy marketing plan. Maybe they will be successful, maybe not. Sort of like Celebrity's past fixation of all things Goop etc. The concept of Celebrity being premium luxury - seriously not. 🤣 With the information age, consumers have considerable information available before they purchase - that includes checking out cruise lines before purchasing. If the new Celebrity target market does a tad bit of research, they to will be laughing at the ridiculous notion of the concept of premium luxury label for Celebrity. Assuming they research, few TA's will be able to upsell Celebrity at that label. But then, the old saying applies "There is a sucker born every minute". Celebrity assumes there are many suckers out there.....
  8. As the old saying goes, "there is a sucker born every minute". People need to take care of themselves first. There are many travel options out there, cruising is merely one. With those prices and those before the virus, no wonder we have scaled back cruising in favor of land based trips - more bang for the buck and more real destination experience. Cruise lines get real.
  9. Get to your credit card company asap and make a dispute case and get a file number. The credit card companies count the days after a consumer has been given notice of cancellation. Do not wait. Indicate that the FCC is being pushed on you and that you want a refund. PDF any correspondence from your TA or Ponant that showes the FCC push, attach it to your complaint. Do not rely on Ponant period. Credit card disputes are powerful tools of the consumer. I even got a refund for a Air Canada flight when that despicable airline refused refunds to anyone. I have 2 friends in the US who work for 2 credit card companies - the credit card companies are discussing what to do about the cruise lines - as the cruise line behavior has caused them major cash flow problems. Suffice it to say my friends state that the cruise lines are public enemy #1 to the credit card companies.
  10. Ports, less and less. Land trips oh yes, and if they happen to be a port stop, we check the impact of the cruise itinerary. The land trips is where you get the deep dive into a destination. Cruises not and especially if the cruise lines use the virus to not allow independent activity - that will equal - 0 cruises going forward. It is up to each community (like Key West) to decide their future, particularly due to the impact of the ever larger ships, but that may change going forward.
  11. I believe that Celebrity, and the other cruise lines, are deliberately choosing to sell a product that they know will not be provided. It works very well as the consumers in the bell curve seem to willingly purchase what is put in front of them. Say in spring 2021 - what will be the on board product? Will the food and service be downgraded due to cruise line debt (likely). Will the ship likely arrive at the advertised ports (maybe). Will you be required to take only the cruise line shore excursion (likely). So everyone who is booking - this scenario is ok with you? I have to assume so. Cruise ships were the first face of this virus - the interviews of the guests isolated to their cabins were blazed across the world. This is what people remember about cruising. As a matter of routine, I ask business associates and people I meet would they take a cruise, and to the one, it is No. This includes people who have previously cruised. The activity on the CC board is not reflective of the general population.
  12. Ride-The-Waves, excellent post. In the end it is very simple, buy what you want which includes each persons individual assessment of pricing. I am not interested if Celebrity's high prices continue or not - if they price at a level I, I deem, acceptable they would be considered. Celebrity has not had my business in years due to their excessive pricing and constant lowering of on board product. Nothing I have seen thus far would incline me to purchase a Celebrity product. I believe Celebrity is the most arrogant of the main cruise lines and it shows in their marketing and other approaches to business, and yes, like you said, Celebrity does view many of their customers as dumb and obedient. The reason for their higher prices is because Celebrity believes there are many lemmings out there who believe their bull, and apparently there are.
  13. morechances - you last paragraph is very important. Thank you for highlighting it. The value of a cruise for us, and many, are the destinations. Any restrictions of access will simply eliminate cruising for us. I would arrange land travel and gain access without the entire risk of thousand's of other people impeding me, which frankly is a risk in itself. There is also the issue of prejudice against cruise ships which will likely linger for a long time - the sanctions on cruise ship entry are likely to be more forceful than a single traveler arriving by train or plane. Simply not interested in paying big $ to participate in the complexity that is related to cruise ships.
  14. Hank, you also make a great point above, in the world response to 9/11, the world is far more shut down, tracked and costly than it was before hand. I agree with you that government imposed restrictions and control will remain in some fashion - many governments will refuse to give up their control on people. They will be aided by a compliant media who will continue to create hysterics designed to scare people into submission. I lived through SARS in Toronto in 2003 and that was almost as bad as this virus - Toronto was the epicenter of SARS and the Province of Ontario and Canada learned nothing from it. Cruise ships are the "petri" dish to many consumers, they were the first face of this virus. It will take a very long time to get cruising "back to normal" as many posters on CC want. I doubt it will ever be the same on board experience. In the interim, consumers have found new travel options like RV's, cottages, condos in palm tree locations, land tours etc - that is likely to take permanent $ away from cruising.
  15. Hank, thank you. Like you said, I believe we are rather out of step with those desperate to cruise again. And yes, the cruise lines believe the many with the FCC's will do and pay anything. The "value proposition" will be fundamentally changed post covid, so the concept that cruisers will be able to get the previous product, is I believe, naïve. What this virus has done to cruising is to essentially break the "habit" of cruising. My habit is totally broken and destroyed. I have moved on to planning land vacations to have a real experience in the location I choose. This includes having customized car, driver and guide who efficiently gets us to where I want to go, bypass lines, confirm our reservations at the local restaurants we want and they wait until we finish eating. In many locations, this is not expensive, but what an amazing way to see the world. It is no longer the ship experience or even looking at the ocean - been there and done that. It is about really experiencing a location. No one I ever talk to in a store, restaurant etc, will even consider a cruise - so I do not know where all these so called bookings are - other than those with FCC's. In the end, to each their own. But people should really put themselves first and the for profit company second.
  16. Greetings Hank, your posts are always filled with wisdom and realism. To each their own, but given the anti consumer tactics of the cruise lines the past months, I am not interested in booking cruises where the basics of the cruise are not solidified and, and, have been delivered for many months so a consumer can determine what is the product and the probability this product will be received. As you pointed out, there are many hurdles for the cruise industry. I too only book long cruises, so the cruise product will have to be as good (food, service, entertainment) and easy and flexible as it was before the virus, for me to ever again consider cruising an option. Not interested in face masks, social distancing, cruise line only shore tours etc. I do however, have land tour options being devised and they will sit on the shelf until ready to implement.
  17. rkacruiser, your question is germane to every cruiser on the CC boards. The response will be different. I am not booking until I know precisely what HAL, or any other cruise line is offering, on a consistent basis, so a potential booking is years away. Basic questions for any consumer of any product... what is the product, will the product likely be delivered to me when I am ready to receive it, what are the risks to the supplier? It does not matter if is a cruise or a vehicle or a new house - the consumer should put themselves first. I really see less of this important principle on these boards - many say, I will or have booked - and it is an unknown product they are booking some have said I am booking to subsidize a multi national corporation. I am not interested if the cruise lines remain intact as that is not in my control, I am only interested in getting what I paid for. If the cruise lines are there fine, they will be analyzed as just another travel option. I took my cancellations as cash, so that cash is now in my accounts making me money. I have no skin in the game regarding cruise lines - but I sure have numerous travel options lined up for North America and elsewhere and none of them are cruises.
  18. Hawaii is a travel destination that requires a land vacation, not a cruise. Do the islands by land and hop via plane between each island. It is so very easy and efficient using the air shuttles. With the good weather, you will get an eyeful of island pictures from the air. Make Kauai a stop and do the plane/heli around the island to see the Napoli coast, well oh my! A totally spectacular geographic sight. Eat the local food, walk around the info center at the Volcano National park etc. Respectfully, take the typical 10 days or so of a Hawaii cruise, and spend it on the islands.
  19. This individual LLP can destroy a brand all she wants and for us, she did. But not everyone agrees, so that is ok. If you cruised with Celebrity post 2015 or so, what a dive into mediocracy and the establishment of the class segmentation that would make the French Line very proud. It is not the $ for us cause we can easily afford the suite class, it is the loss of the public space, particularly the viewing forward lounge, it is the attitude of Celebrity. Not purchasing it.
  20. Thank you whogo. It appears some people on CC are raring to go to get on a cruise ship. The basic reality is that people are purchasing a totally unknown product - separate from the virus consequences a key question is - What will the onboard product be? Like what will the onboard experience be - given the debt levels of the cruise lines. Logic says it will be less than prior to the virus. So logic says as a consumer, why would one pay more for less. In the end, to each their own, but really, I have 0 confidence in the cruise lines to provide a semblance of the experience before the virus. So not purchasing until stability returns and I can judge the value of a cruise versus all other vacation options.
  21. ChucktownSteve, could not have said it better myself. Celebrity back then was something special, it was a leading edge premium cruise line with new ships. The food, service, everyone was treated the same. The Roux days, I sure miss that. Since 2015, Celebrity has gone down hill to just another mass line. Such is life.
  22. The point is that no one should assume that with many people vaccinated that the virus will go away. Many people believe the vaccine will stop transmission, this is not true, we have no evidence. But then neither has any so called expert or politician actually come out and stated this simple fact....nothing from anyone in high position of accountability where their comment would be spread globally. This fact of no evidence of stopping transmission is spreading informally. I have no intention of cruising any time soon given this reality.
  23. Then there is the issue of there being no evidence that a vaccine will stop transmission of the virus from one person to another. Then there is the expiry horizon of a vaccine, so if your vaccine horizon expires just before your cruise or on a cruise - what is one to do? Think of the consequences.......locked in your cabin until arrival at port then get delayed flying home and on and on, delays at boarding.... I have the impression that the public seems to believe that the vaccines will solve everything immediately and there is no evidence to indicate this.
  24. Would you southern Europe by land and take the many trains between cities. Then take a detour from northern Italy up to Austria and Switzerland and do the mighty train Glacier Express to Zermatt to try, yet again, to see the entire Matterhorn. The only cruising only routes for me are Norway, South America, Asia, Pan canal. Done those, so it is land based only going forward. We are about the destination and being immersed, so cruises simply do not provide what we wish to purchase.
  25. Very much enjoy Cunard ships and the tradition and the semi-formality and the promenade deck. The ocean liner history area at the bow area of the QM2 is a priceless asset for all ship lovers. I have been on QM2 4x but none of the other Cunard vessels, so I can only speak of the QM2 experience. The best passenger ship there is bar none. The open viewing area at the front under the bridge is my favorite spot, totally unique where one can be with the sea, which is a valuable asset given that many cruise lines (Celebrity in particular) is removing public access to viewing the ocean. However, the food in non grill level is poor. The Kings Court food is 4/10, poor quality, poorly presented, poor taste. The food in the Britannia (most wonderful looking dining room on the ocean) is just average. Generally so so quality ingredients, limited to no garnishes, just no taste, small portions. We were very disappointed in the generally available food. We did however, discover the best food on the QM2 and to be frank - the best food we ever had on a ship period and that includes premium and luxury lines. It is the Alternative dining pop up already referred to earlier; mexican, bbq, other themes etc. Simply outstanding food of taste, quality ingredients, presentation, sides, volume etc. $15 pp and with a separate eating area in Kings Court with separate staff just waiting to serve you. It was the taste, the taste of the food. I wrote to the Hotel Manager about the great food and staff and the letter got posted in their work area! If I voyage again on QM2, we will simply eat in this configuration most of the time. The issue of class segmentation is there, but very low key and not in your face at all. I agree totally with other posters about Celebrity's total in your face class segmentation. Also the removal of public viewing spaces like the Sky Lounge is frankly disgusting. These are 2 of the reasons we have not patronized Celebrity in over 5 years despite being Elite plus. Will not patronize Celebrity in the future based on their attitude towards most passengers. Have not been on HAL for a while, but many friends enjoy it. The downgrading of the product and loss of entertainment are two items my friends indicate that are putting them off HAL. In the end, to each their own. Given the debt levels of the cruise lines, once cruising starts, we do not intend upon cruising until we are certain there is a consistency in the product that we can measure and determine is there value in cruising versus other vacation options. I and my friends did not take FCC's, only cash. We are highly suspicious there will be serious downgrading provided to all the captive customers using their FCC's.
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