ABoatNerd

Outstanding analysis, you have summarized the situation very well and I compliment you on the compare and contrast of land versus at sea. The RCL downgrading is continuing quickly and with technology the downgrades will not be hidden from the public. What I see is a corporate belief that cruise vacationers are SO DESPERATE to cruise that they will put up with serious downgrading. Time will tell on this. I have cruised since 1989, starting on the Sovereign of the Seas, and I have no cruises booked on any line and will not book for the foreseeable future until I know there is stability in the product offering. I am no "obedient consumer".

Is it true, none of these cruise lines had any idea this was a requirement to sail in these PC waters? Seems very, very suspect to me. Very suspect indeed.

Disagree: Three elements separate mass market from premium and above: 1) No class apartheid like on Celebrity, guests basically go everywhere other a small lounge for a few categories 2) Small ships 3) Non mass itineraries; unique non mass ports and longer itineraries Mass Market - All, including Celebrity, Celebrity is a big mass cruise line owned by RCL, nothing more, and heading to the bottom quickly Premium - Oceania, Azamara, Viking Ocean Deluxe - Silversea, Seabourne, Regent Speciality - Ponet, That is the reality. The smaller the vessel, the higher end it is, bottom line.

To not give them my business. Until cruising settles and I can be certain what the product offering is from every company, I will not purchase any cruise. It really is to each their own. I have 0 loyalty to any company. Enjoy whatever you decide.

Thanks for that reminder of the "burger debacle", well said.

Thank you for this information, you are correct. The point was to use the credit card dispute as intimidation before the cruise. Whether it works it depends on whom is involved. Definitely use the process after the cruise indeed. Credit card dispute is an underutilized tool for the consumer.

You never know. What is your threshold for removal of product and services after final payment?

Same is happening with the Oceania Regatta, here is the link. They are off Australia. https://boards.cruisecritic.com.au/topic/2905036-on-regatta-now/ Many lost ports and delays. Regatta lost power a couple of days ago, typical for that aging ship. Australia and NZ are not making friends these days.

Do not be nice, be a tough, informed consumer. Highlight this important information and the time line of purchasing versus changes are very important. I wish you much good fortune!

Credit card dispute is an excellent way to fight misleading service providers. I won a dispute with Air Canada a year and a half before they finally had to give mass refunds. Make sure you have documents that support what you purchased and the stated reductions. For example, a poster on another thread indicated they are on a Celebrity ship right now and there is NO afternoon tea sandwiches, scones etc - that is appalling as it has been a staple for decades on Celebrity - document that.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Indeed, give O a try and see does the product work for you at this point in your life. You never know until you try. Kindest Regards and Great Sailing.

OMG, truly. This is appalling but predictable. As for the posts about Modern Luxury, that concept died when Celebrity went 100% into class apartheid, luxury was only for suite class. I have cruised Celebrity since 1992, yes 1992, and I have experienced the entire life cycle of this cruise line, in the past 5 years Celebrity has substituted quality for the majority of their passengers with distractions like Eden. Important, they can get away with much of this because many bookings still include FCC, when these are used up, the client base may be quite different. I currently have 0 cruises booked and I do not intend to book any.

You are most correct indeed. A very wise consumer you are, well done indeed. Customers are way down the pecking order for corporations. The "obedient consumer" is desired by corporations because they can be abused and corporations know these consumers buy into the loyalty programs which are often fraudulent in value. But yet these consumers continue to purchase a declining value product. Cruising is an example of the "obedient consumer" phenomenon and these consumers are definitely being exploited, more so now than ever. I cancel service providers many times a week, the current provider that just got cancelled is Oceania because they are now reducing time in port - NOT.

You are absolutely correct. Myself and my husband and best friends have many O cruises under our belt. Other than a few O "enforcers", people are very upset at O for the food downgrading (the main dining room is no better than Celebrity), the reduction in port time is a huge issue for O customers as O markets their itineraries which is the reason I have cruised with them, O has the worst arrival % of any cruise line as many posts over the years have noted and their ship Regatta is particularly prone to dead in the water situations which just occurred again this week, their staff are cold, on board management avoids contact with guests, onboard communications is very the poorest of any cruise line I have been on. Offsetting this is the inclusive nature of the ship, all guests go everywhere in most situations, there is none of the Celebrity class apartheid, the food is generally better than the mass lines and their ships are smaller so less crowding and less nickle and diming. It is important that consumers know precisely what they value in a cruise and evaluate all the cruise lines, best not to rely on any cruise line; being an "obedient consumer" seems to not provide the value it used to. I personally have discovered Mighty Trains and have numerous land trips booked with customized guides, local hotels and local great restaurants so I can really experience a place.

Celebrity, like every company, has a strategic plan to optimize profits. They know precisely the consequences of each action. Companies rely on "obedient consumers" to continue to purchase despite declining value. Today's consumers have been taught via Mass Manipulation to continue to purchase whether they need it or not, an automatic behavior called Mass Psychosis. They will discontinue the buffet and force people to eat in dining rooms - savings #1. Then in the dining rooms, they will reduce the quality - savings #2. In the dining rooms, which are the only option - they will increase surcharges - profit increase. All so predictable, yawn. On Oceania that is discussed on the Celebrity board, they are now reducing time in ports to achieve their "climate change" ya agenda. Oceania guests choose Oceania for the very good itineraries which are better than the mass lines, so here is another example of downgrading. _________________________________________ As a consumer, you have to change with the times and often that means Cancelling a service provider.

I travel for the ports, not the ship. So, this will keep me from considering another O cruise. You 0, reap what you sow.

Yes I agree, I was taking the long view - actually air canada was listed as the worst performing airline and westjet the second worst airline in North America for on time performance. I flew out of DeGalle in August and of course was delay by air canada. Had time to speak with various airport staff; universally they indicated air canada is the most despised airline due to attitude and non reliability. Suffice it to say I do not fly this disgusting air line any longer, not that there is much choice in canada.

You are one of many who have left Celebrity for Oceania, most of my Oceania cruises are full of former Celebrity patrons. The one thing they all say is the class apartheid on Celebrity was the main driver along with the poor value for $ given Celebrity's ridiculous prices they charge versus the competition. Celebrity is not a Premium cruise line, it is the most expensive of the Mass cruise lines, nothing more. But every cruise line is going to cheapen their product given their debt load. So what they advertise is dubious to be received. Each consumer has their own parameters what is their value for money. Enjoy your future cruises. For me is is driving vacations in North America and Mighty Train trips around the world.

The downgrading of the Celebrity product commenced in 2015 and accelerated quickly thereafter. The fabulous open face sandwiches in El Baco were devine and disappeared in 2017, never to return. This is simply more of the same - flash is more important than substance and seems to appeal to many obedient consumers in every business sector. Given the debt load of the cruise lines, the downgrading will move quickly but will be covered up as much as possible via distractions and mis truths of all sorts. Considering 80+% of the cruise beds are controlled by 2 big corporations, there is 0 competition in cruising, that alone should ring bells for consumers. The land based travel options will reap benefits from savvy cruisers who are looking for more bang for their buck. The old saying "Flash Vs Substance" indeed.

Indeed. I have seen the worlds places best seen by ship - Norway, Baltic, South America, South Vietnam, South Pacific Tahiti, Iceland and Greenland, the Arctic and Antarctica, so have moved on to land trips. Enjoy the land trips and immersing in locations and geography. It is wonderful you have a wide range of travel options; many people on CC are addicted to cruises, ie as we call it where I work, obedient consumers. Enjoy your travels and great weather always.

The downgrading was at full speed before covid, which resulted in our household and cruising friends not cruising since 2018. Downgrading will accelerate in this industry for the many reasons stated across all CC forums. However, we all commenced customized land trips via Globus and Mighty Trains and private guides all across Europe - the BEST vacation experience. The sights, local food, local experiences so amazing, it blew cruising to the curb, with a few exceptions like Norway, South America etc. It depends upon what you want, but seeing and experiencing the world is better ashore.

Hence why there is much reluctance to fly, especially the world's worst airline air canada. I certainly am not paying those prices for poor service.

Hank, excellent assessment. The Mass Psychosis is significant but declining. My concern about cruising is not the covid but the manipulations of the cruise lines to downgrade the experience and their attempts to hide it. Not buying it.

Apologies for the delayed response. We organize everything ourselves, because we know what we want. It is not difficult as there are many service providers out there and they all know English. Seen the places in the world best seen by ship, so no more need for cruises, especially with the downgrading and apartheid class segmentation on Celebrity in particular. If we cruised it would be on the premium lines.

I have cruised since 1989. I have 0 cruises booked and do not foresee any reason to book any. I like cruising, hence I check CC from time to time. I have discovered Mighty Trains and my trips now include train travel with customized tour guides, unique hotels and local food. These trips are so much more rewarding in terms of geography, meeting people, history, food etc. Cruising is too blah, repetitive, regimented and isolating for me. My declining number of friends who still cruise note the very obvious downgrades and that is turning them off as well. I can travel anyway I want as I have the resources, but considering that I have cruised from 1989 onwards, the cruise industry changes have turned me off. Enjoy whatever travel you choose.