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macandlucy

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Everything posted by macandlucy

  1. Check out Manulife covid insurance. I believe their cruise exclusion only applies to people who are not vaccinated
  2. It’s not unusual to continue to test positive for covid for weeks after recovery. (Where I live it’s 10 days post positive test/symptoms plus symptom improvement that is required to end isolation, definitely no post recovery testing). If Greece is going to require a negative covid test to release from isolation, that concerns me.
  3. Thanks for the info and the heads up about always calling the casino department to make any changes, azbirdmom -- I really appreciate it :)
  4. We recently got our first casino offer from Princess, a free inside, with Princess Plus, and so we booked a cabin for next year. We paid the taxes and port fees up front, along with the non-refundable deposit (which will be returned to us in OBC), So far, great! When I looked at our invoice, I saw that it showed an outstanding balance. I asked the Casino booking agent about that and he said, not to worry, we will pay off that balance. But I forgot to ask when that would happen! Could anyone tell me when they pay off the balance, approximately? 30 days after booking; 30 days before sailing? Some other time?
  5. I think that refers to the individual cruise lines that are currently sailing in Europe. Each line has their own set of guidelines. I am not sure but think (honestly don’t remember) that each line had to get approval from pertinent countries or the EU to get permission to sail.
  6. Okay, well I think we've gone as far as we can in this discussion. I don't agree that cruise ships are a different animal and require more stringent rules than hotels or gyms or resorts or airplanes or hospitals for that matter. I don't think 100% vaccination is required for cruise ships when we are living without a 100% vax requirement for literally everywhere else. It doesn't mean I won't sail on a ship with 100% vax requirement, (because I am going to be fully vaccinated) but I do think it's overkill.
  7. Didn't we just see an example of a 100% vaxxed cruise with a couple of positive cases? Spoiler alert: we did. I didn't follow that story. Did ports refuse docking to that ship? Did countries close down to cruising as a result? Was the ship with the positive cases locked down, pax in cabins and masks required? Did the things we don't want to happen, happen? It seems to me, if you have a mix of vaxxed and unvaxxed on a ship and you do get an outbreak, the thing to do is what we do on land: Contact trace and require unvaxxed people to isolate and fully vaxxed only need to isolate if they are showing symptoms. If you want to sail without being vaccinated, know that you will be subjected to the same public health measures re: isolation that you are on land.
  8. Cases are on the rise in the UK, but is the rise in new cases showing exponential growth? I don't recall reading that it was exponential, but I am not keeping up with my pandemic reading like I once was. I did read that even with the rise of new cases, hospitalizations and deaths are down. One dose seems to have a good effect on lessening the severity of the disease. Israel, I believe, used Pfizer, and their numbers are very good, like they are having double digit new cases and zero deaths last time I checked. I don't know what percentage of their population has had two doses, but things are looking good in Israel. I do think it's important to remember that when public health officials were worried about 2, 3 4 thousand cases last year, they were worried because of the exponential growth potential because there was no immunity in the population to slow it, and things could get very out of control very fast. With lots of immunity in the population, it's different.
  9. Would you sail on a ship that has both no vaccine requirement and no requirement for masks and social distancing?
  10. Perhaps, until people come to their senses. I am an optimist, so I think they will, and the unreasonable fear will slowly dissolve. I just hope it doesn't take too long.
  11. Yes, I get that. I wouldn't want that either, but that's unnecessary anyway, for you, if you are vaccinated. The requirement to wear masks if you are fully vaccinated is not a reasonable one, imo. ETA: And I'm not sure I agree that vaccinated people are not afraid to cruise because of covid. I've seen plenty of "It's only 95% effective!", "There could be an outbreak on a ship!" type posts.
  12. Actually, no, I wouldn't. The UK vaccine strategy I believe was to get everyone a first jab, and then do a second later. So, most people are not fully immunized. And they used a lot of AstraZeneca, which is a different vaccine than many Americans have taken and will take. Covid is going to be with us for a long time, in some form. Generally, in a population, a virus mutates ("variants"), some are worse, some are less severe -- the ones that tend to win, over many years, are the less deadly variants because if a virus kills a host it can't reproduce itself. There are still viral remnants of the Spanish Flu in the population. If you are hoping for a covid free world, I'm sorry, but I don't think you are going to get one. Somehow, we need to figure out how to go from there.
  13. Many of the assumptions about potential dangers of cruising are based on the situation in March 2020, where almost the whole population was vulnerable to Covid. That is no longer the case because there's so much immunity in the population now. Why do even the most restrictive states allow full opening now? Because they know that there is enough immunity in the population to make exponential spread a virtual mathematical impossibility. This is the same situation on land or on a ship. People's respiratory systems and immune responses do not magically change once they embark a ship. If you are fully vaccinated, the likelihood of you getting sick from covid is very low. If you do get sick (again, unlikely), you will likely experience very mild symptoms. Is this risk really so serious that cruising should be prohibited? As a vaccinated person, do you need to know your fellow cruisers measles vax stats, flu, hepatitis? Not really because YOU are vaccinated. You have protection from these bugs, so you don't need to worry, that's the bottom line and why we do vaccinations. (The public health component includes things like not overwhelming health care systems and creating herd immunity for the people who are unable to take the vaccine.) None of this makes any sense to me -- there were people in March 2020 who were unafraid to go on a cruise and there are people in June 2021, who are fully vaccinated against covid, who are too afraid.
  14. There couldn't be another Diamond Princess-like outbreak on any ship sailing from the US now, simply because there are too many people with immunity -- either naturally acquired or by vaccine. The DP had a ship full of available virus hosts; those conditions no longer exist for Covid-19. And remember, even under the ideal respiratory virus spreading conditions (the Diamond Princess in early 2020), not even half of the population contracted it. Not even close to half. I'm a pragmatist, so I think the 100% vaccination requirement is a prudent one, at least for now, at least to restore confidence through successful, outbreak-free sailings. And perhaps they would be able to drop that requirement after a short time. But I just can't see them winning this battle against DeSantis. I think they need to sail from Florida. But, that's just a guess on my part. I have had one dose of vaccine now, and plan to get the second when I can. Because I am vaccinated, I don't worry about catching covid from someone else. I do have the worry of a minor outbreak on a ship causing everyone to freak the %&$# out because we also also have a pandemic of irrationality to deal with, so NCL's 100% vaxxed cruise has appeal for that reason, but I know it's not necessary for my personal safety.
  15. Well, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. FDR seems like a committed fella, but he's a businessman at the end of the day and more than anything he needs to make money. That sweet, sweet sail-from-Florida money will be too much to pass up, imo. I'm sure FDR is also thinking about how devastating an outbreak on a ship would be as well, and he wants to keep that risk as low as possible. But really, with crew 100% vaxxed, and much of the population of passengers vaxxed, it's low anyway. But for sure, no cruise line wants to be the first to report an outbreak, even if it's an outbreak of just a few people. Because even though small outbreaks like that happen everyday, everywhere, people and especially the media, will freak out if it happens on a ship. Tough time to be a cruiseline executive right now.
  16. One of them is going to have to cave, and I don't think it will be DeSantis. NCL has not made any money for a long time; they need to get sailing again. A Caribbean home port is a nice idea, but I imagine it will hurt their bottom line as it's more costly to fly to those destinations than Florida. Plus, you can't drive there. Lawsuits take time, and every day that NCL isn't sailing costs money. They also risk losing passengers to other lines. What a crummy spot for NCL to be in though -- first the CDC and their unreasonableness and then DeSantis and his. Why he doesn't just let the people decide which business to patronize, I don't know. But, bottom line is NCL is in the weaker position, as they have much more to lose. My guess is NCL will cave on this, and will end at position like crew must be vaxxed and pax are "strongly encouraged" to be. Popcorn worthy!
  17. Considering that NCL want all pax and crew vaccinated, I think we’ll be good. Can’t get better than 100%.
  18. Any cruise ship that has more than 80% (being extra conservative here) of the humans onboard immune (by vax or prior infection) will have, by definition, herd immunity.
  19. Interesting question, DCGuy64. Where I live, and early on, (March or April 2020) our provincial health authority took a look at that, just did covid testing on blood samples taken from people who had been to a lab for blood work for some other reason. At that time, the incidence was very low. I don't remember what it was exactly, but IIRC, it was in the neighborhood of less than 1%. I was surprised by that; I would have expected it to be higher.
  20. The whole topic is turning into the Smoking Thread 2.0. I'm all for different opinions, but it seems like it's turning into an opportunity to chastise others. Take your vaccine, don't - I don't care. I'm taking one when I can because I think the odds of me getting really sick or dying from covid are higher than the odds of an adverse effect from a vaccine. And in both cases, the odds are pretty low. ETA: If I take a vaccine to benefit myself, or if I take it to benefit others is an unimportant distinction re: the virus.
  21. That figure assumes every single American will get infected with covid-19 though. But they won't ... because of herd immunity. A virus needs a host to reproduce. Prior infection eliminates a person (in most cases) as a host. The reduction in the number of available hosts causes the R0 (transmission rate) to drop.
  22. I agree. I don't see evidence of "trolling" either. Presenting a different opinion, different interpretation of data, disagreeing with conclusions etc. drawn is actually a normal and important part of scientific enquiry. That happens all the time, has always happened and it should continue to happen. Without open debate and discussion and disagreement, you've got dogma, not science. I sincerely hope that's not where we are headed as a society. As for the internet, I think civil debate is healthy and productive and necessary. A well presented opposing opinion causes me to question my view and look for weaknesses in my own argument. Sometimes I change my mind about things because someone else brought a better argument. Presenting a different opinion or having an "unpopular" view is not trolling.
  23. Perhaps in the future a serology report will be enough, or the lines will find a way to do instant tests for antibodies prior to boarding. For me personally, I don’t care how someone acquires immunity, as long as they have it, but for now, proof of vaccination against covid really seems like the only way for cruises to proceed. Time is of the essence. I respect an individual’s right to make his/her own decision about this, or any other vaccine, but I am also a pragmatist, and I can’t see any way around a required covid vaccine for cruises for now.
  24. That risk would only be 33% of the passengers face an infection risk, if none of the others are vaccinated. Since everyone is required to be vaccinated, the associated risk of exposure would be much lower than 33%. It also assumes that every single person who is unvaccinated would a) encounter an infected person, b) meet the "contact requirements" (more than 15 minutes at less than 6 feet distance). That didn't even happen on the worst case scenario Diamond Princess. While I personally don't mind a mask requirement, it seems like a butt covering move, for appearances sake only. If there are no requirements about the masks themselves -- like they should be effective against aerosols, for example, then they aren't all that effective as a covid prevention measure. Some are good, some are not. It's sort of "settled science" that vaccines prevent transmission -- that's one of they key benefits of mass vaccination, and a big part of how a population achieves herd immunity. For some reason, the experts are acting like the settled science doesn't apply to this virus, or there's something really different about how the mRna vaccines behave in the body. But overall, the evidence is rolling in every day and it's looking, not surprisingly, like vaccinated people do not generally cause others to become infected with covid.
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