New Dress Code Designations?

Well said.

 

We have chosen in the past to spend our retirement travel funds on Cunard as a way to escape this downward spiral. If the experience is no longer the traditional Cunard of the past, why would I continue to travel with them?

 

If Carnival Corporation views Cunard as just another one of their cookie cutter lines for mass travel, what other icons on Cunard ships will go next? Will they see a need to still have a dedicated ballroom taking up all that non-revenue producing space when they could add even more revenue producing cabins or perhaps a couple of new bars for those wanting 24/7 Rock, Hip-Hop or other recorded pop music for breakdancing rather than those old fashioned live musicians playing Classical or Jazz music for listening.

Yes, I am sure that is where they are headed.

The arguments in favour of Cunard dumbing down the dress code often relate to "people are not dressing up as much as before" or "people from California and Australia don't 'do' formal." I understand that. I don't wear a jacket and tie as much as I used to, which elicits adverse comments from some of my friends and our son (a millennial). To me, going to sea is a special occasion. In any event, dressing the same way 365 days a year sounds incredibly boring. We know that all other lines have dumbed down their dress codes to a certain extent - or worse - but surely there is a place on the seas for a few ships that go against the trend.

The "slippery slope" argument is a valid one - and not just pertaining to the standards of dress. On another site there have been complaints that the entertainment on Cunard is too high brow or serious. These people ignore the reality that Cunard provides a full range of entertainment to suit all tastes. Not many ships do that. There are some cruise lines that blare pop music to you everywhere, including (according to the daughter of a friend of ours) in the alleyway outside their cabin 24 hours a day. Should Cunard do away with lectures and classical concerts because people from (insert any country or demographic) don't like them? Cunard has already added what was traditionally "informal", i.e., a suit and tie, to the definition of formal and removed the requirement for a jacket and tie for men in the restaurants on every night. On our earlier crossings (six nights) on the QM2 there were four formal nights. On a one-week cruise five years ago there were three formal nights as on a crossing, but our last two cruises had only two.

In the decades since my first Cunard voyage I have seen a lot of changes. For certain, many of them have been positive. I'm not suggesting that dodge 'ems and belly-flop competitions are coming soon to Cunard, but Cunard should be careful or - as others have said - what is the point of them.

The arguments in favour of Cunard dumbing down the dress code often relate to "people are not dressing up as much as before" or "people from California and Australia don't 'do' formal." I understand that. I don't wear a jacket and tie as much as I used to, which elicits adverse comments from some of my friends and our son (a millennial). To me, going to sea is a special occasion. In any event, dressing the same way 365 days a year sounds incredibly boring. We know that all other lines have dumbed down their dress codes to a certain extent - or worse - but surely there is a place on the seas for a few ships that go against the trend.

 

 

The "slippery slope" argument is a valid one - and not just pertaining to the standards of dress. On another site there have been complaints that the entertainment on Cunard is too high brow or serious. These people ignore the reality that Cunard provides a full range of entertainment to suit all tastes. Not many ships do that. There are some cruise lines that blare pop music to you everywhere, including (according to the daughter of a friend of ours) in the alleyway outside their cabin 24 hours a day. Should Cunard do away with lectures and classical concerts because people from (insert any country or demographic) don't like them? Cunard has already added what was traditionally "informal", i.e., a suit and tie, to the definition of formal and removed the requirement for a jacket and tie for men in the restaurants on every night. On our earlier crossings (six nights) on the QM2 there were four formal nights. On a one-week cruise five years ago there were three formal nights as on a crossing, but our last two cruises had only two.

 

 

 

In the decades since my first Cunard voyage I have seen a lot of changes. For certain, many of them have been positive. I'm not suggesting that dodge 'ems and belly-flop competitions are coming soon to Cunard, but Cunard should be careful or - as others have said - what is the point of them.

The arguments in favour of Cunard dumbing down the dress code often relate to "people are not dressing up as much as before" or "people from California and Australia don't 'do' formal." I understand that. I don't wear a jacket and tie as much as I used to, which elicits adverse comments from some of my friends and our son (a millennial). To me, going to sea is a special occasion. In any event, dressing the same way 365 days a year sounds incredibly boring. We know that all other lines have dumbed down their dress codes to a certain extent - or worse - but surely there is a place on the seas for a few ships that go against the trend.

 

 

The "slippery slope" argument is a valid one - and not just pertaining to the standards of dress. On another site there have been complaints that the entertainment on Cunard is too high brow or serious. These people ignore the reality that Cunard provides a full range of entertainment to suit all tastes. Not many ships do that. There are some cruise lines that blare pop music to you everywhere, including (according to the daughter of a friend of ours) in the alleyway outside their cabin 24 hours a day. Should Cunard do away with lectures and classical concerts because people from (insert any country or demographic) don't like them? Cunard has already added what was traditionally "informal", i.e., a suit and tie, to the definition of formal and removed the requirement for a jacket and tie for men in the restaurants on every night. On our earlier crossings (six nights) on the QM2 there were four formal nights. On a one-week cruise five years ago there were three formal nights as on a crossing, but our last two cruises had only two.

 

 

 

In the decades since my first Cunard voyage I have seen a lot of changes. For certain, many of them have been positive. I'm not suggesting that dodge 'ems and belly-flop competitions are coming soon to Cunard, but Cunard should be careful or - as others have said - what is the point of them.

Thank you for this splendid post. It says what needs to be said, and it says it well. Slopes can be slippery and those that step on them should be very careful.

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Returned today from the May 10 crossing. I was honestly shocked at how many men didn’t wear jackets on informal nights(like 5 percent but still), and saw quite a few get turned away on formal nights for not wearing ties.

Returned today from the May 10 crossing. I was honestly shocked at how many men didn’t wear jackets on informal nights(like 5 percent but still), and saw quite a few get turned away on formal nights for not wearing ties.

Wow, I’d be more concerned if it were 50% non compliance.

So ahocked that maybe 5% of male passengers were not wearing jackets, so that’s what maybe 70 men out of an average of 1350 gentlemen, assuming a 50% split of nearly a 2695 maximum total capacity?

 

Wow, I’d be more concerned if it were 50% non compliance.

Shocked I mean by the dining room staff not stopping them.

Shocked I mean by the dining room staff not stopping them.

The staff have given up, same on QM2 in March last year, Sydney to HK. Formal nights, Adidas Track suit tops mixed up with the Dinner suits...ugly.:evilsmile:

We have today cancelled our December cruise - and lost £570 deposit - but we’re not prepared to pay the balance of £1,566. For us the forthcoming changes of increasing the areas where those who don’t want to adhere to the evenings dress code can go will, in our opinion, spoil the ambience of the ship. I understand that others welcome the change but for us we’ve done our last cruise. We have some wonderful memories, and great photos, and have met some lovely people - who we will continue to stay in touch with. Happy cruising everyone.

We have today cancelled our December cruise - and lost £570 deposit - but we’re not prepared to pay the balance of £1,566. For us the forthcoming changes of increasing the areas where those who don’t want to adhere to the evenings dress code can go will, in our opinion, spoil the ambience of the ship. I understand that others welcome the change but for us we’ve done our last cruise. We have some wonderful memories, and great photos, and have met some lovely people - who we will continue to stay in touch with. Happy cruising everyone.

All that stress based on rumours,we debarked the QE a few weeks ago and none of this "problem" for 19 days,and I am a Cunard sceptic.

It's not rumours, it's a fact that the areas where the dress code does not apply will increase next month.

On the QE it is 12 June 2018

We have today cancelled our December cruise - and lost £570 deposit - but we’re not prepared to pay the balance of £1,566. For us the forthcoming changes of increasing the areas where those who don’t want to adhere to the evenings dress code can go will, in our opinion, spoil the ambience of the ship. I understand that others welcome the change but for us we’ve done our last cruise. We have some wonderful memories, and great photos, and have met some lovely people - who we will continue to stay in touch with. Happy cruising everyone.

Now that is what I call having the courage of one's convictions.

I for one am sorry to see you leave the family but I fully recognise your right to holding Cunard to the high standards that prevailed when you made the booking.

Now that is what I call having the courage of one's convictions.

 

I for one am sorry to see you leave the family but I fully recognise your right to holding Cunard to the high standards that prevailed when you made the booking.

I'm not sure I would agree that canceling a cruise is a particularly courageous act.

I'm not sure I would agree that canceling a cruise is a particularly courageous act.

Agreed- whole thing seems rather silly.

I'm not sure I would agree that canceling a cruise is a particularly courageous act.

It's called courage of one's convictions.

If you do not like the direction of travel of one's company one speaks out and leaves. Not sit on one's hands, stay quiet, suffer and complain out of earshot.

It's not rumours, it's a fact that the areas where the dress code does not apply will increase next month.

It's called courage of one's convictions.

 

If you do not like the direction of travel of one's company one speaks out and leaves. Not sit on one's hands, stay quiet, suffer and complain out of earshot.

What about just skipping the “speaking out” and get on with the leaving part? This whole thread has amazed me- folks we’re talking about cruise ships that belong to a company that is allowed to make any business decision they’d like. It’s not “ones company”- it’s their company and their product.

And the “consequences” of “sitting on ones hands” are not dire. I promise you if you step aboard a Cunard ship in a dinner jacket or cargo shorts you will not “suffer” in any way, shape, or form (aside from the occasional sunburn or hangover).

we’re talking about cruise ships that belong to a company that is allowed to make any business decision they’d like. It’s not “ones company”- it’s their company and their product.

Agreed. However all one wishes is clarity of the new wording and confirmation of an enforcement policy.

To date, not one person in Cunard has given a clear and unambiguous answer to any question requesting clarity posed to them.

Cunard seem to consider an ambiguous corporate waffle reply as an answer. Or even a computer generated acknowledgement of one's E-mail being judged a reply within 28 days.

One's quest continues.

Exactly the responses I was expecting. Which proves my contention that it is pointless to wail and whinge on here about the lowering of Cunard's standards because the prevailing view and actions are just this. "I'll wear what I like when I like.' and all too frequently the attitude of , 'And I'll do what I like when I like.' goes along with that. And that's just how it is. See the many, many posts on here over the years from people, usually males, asking questions about what they can 'get away with' on formal nights, how far can they stretch the rules, will there be sanctions against dining etc. etc.

And of course my post was judgemental, (what a pejorative word that has become), if I can judge someone as being smartly dressed then I can do the same for someone who isn't. We all make judgements about other other people, it's human nature. How often do we hear the plaintive cry of 'Don't judge me'. Well how the dickens are we to come to any conclusions without a judgement.

MM

I actually loved it. I won't bother with Cunard either if they change the atmosphere though the person who remarked the entertainment & enrichment were "nothing special" is incorrect. Cunard is probably the only upper-middle line with enrichment lectures, programs, full orchestra, strings & such.

But alas, here in this thread anyway I am in the minority. We went to Alaska on the Eurodam in September - comparable cabin class as to what we sail n Cunard. The ship looked like it was decorated in the 80's, the music was loud and grating - which is fine for one venue but not all the clubs I would think. The entertainment which was pleasant - the "Kennedy Center" nights - were stuffed into a small afterthought corner. Alaska was beautiful. HAL was pretty awful. We booked another Alaska voyage on QE, then cancelled several weeks ago since I prefer the formality and tradition of Cunard and its dress code. The West coast of the US will bring out the less formal crowd. So we booked a TA on the QM2 instead to give it one last whirl.

Everyone has their reasons for sailing a certain line. With me and Cunard it is the formality and the elegance. Take it away and it is Holland America - a sad clone of their heyday. No thanks. I also sail Disney, who may charge triple what most lines charge, but they offer something unique too - superior service, beautiful ships, and the best entertainment. Disney knows better than to change its product. If Cunard doesn't then I won't bother sailing them anymore. I am sure plenty of others will take our place and it will be a nice memory for us while it lasted.

:)Based on this thread I’m off to the bank manager today with a business plan for a Downton Abbey Theme Park.

This thread may outlive the Queen herself! (Hope she reigns for many more years)

I find the enduring hubbub amusing when you remember the poll that Hattie ran shortly after the changes were announced. From the start, the ratios of the responses remained consistent, while the total number grew. Recall:

To the question of "What do you think of the dress code changes?" a scant 2.5% declared they'd leave the line. Consistently, over twice as many answered in the reverse - "I wouldn't have sailed Cunard before, I might consider it now (5.8%). Over half (51%) of the respondents replied "The changes don't bother me enough to change lines, I'll continue to sail" with most of the remainder lumped in the large group "I'll wait until the changes are introduced before deciding (38%)

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2624836&highlight=dress+code

- Mark

I actually loved it. I won't bother with Cunard either if they change the atmosphere though the person who remarked the entertainment & enrichment were "nothing special" is incorrect. Cunard is probably the only upper-middle line with enrichment lectures, programs, full orchestra, strings & such.

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My view also.

I have a long(ish) cruise booked for next year and have paid a hefty (Grills) deposit. Unlike happy Boating I am not prepared to lose that deposit and indeed, have enough character about me to enjoy the experience anyway.

Having said that I will go with an open mind, make observations, and effectively place a 'trial' notice on Cunard.

Meanwhile I shall not booking any future cruise with them until I'm satisfied that the standards we have become used to have not been watered down.

I have been following this thread with interest as we embark on our first Cunard sailing tomorrow (albeit not a 'voyage' and so not a full representation of the line, but being used as a trial of the ship for us) and we are taking formal attire, even though there is no mention of this requirement in the CP.

However, it was reported on a previous short sailing on QE I believe, that one evening was designated formal optional once on board and many were disappointed as they had not brought the appropriate attire, but we will have just in case and to be honest may wear it regardless. I doubt there's any restrictions on dressing 'higher' than the published requirement. :)

Whatever our experience is, my question is this, if Cunard are relaxing the dress code to the point where those of you who expect the formality of what Cunard used to offer are no longer happy, which line are you going to move to?

I maybe wrong, but I don't know of any other cruise line that demands the formality you expect and is offered on Cunard, expect maybe P&O, but then I don't believe they offer all the other elements of enrichment and facilities provided by Cunard.

My view also.

 

I have a long(ish) cruise booked for next year and have paid a hefty (Grills) deposit. Unlike happy Boating I am not prepared to lose that deposit and indeed, have enough character about me to enjoy the experience anyway.

 

Having said that I will go with an open mind, make observations, and effectively place a 'trial' notice on Cunard.

 

Meanwhile I shall not booking any future cruise with them until I'm satisfied that the standards we have become used to have not been watered down.

That's our approach too. We shall wait and see what happens in practice on the ship over the coming weeks and months, both based on our own experience during our forthcoming Fjords cruise on QM2 (the first week of the changes, I believe) and based on first-hand reports by others. In the meantime, we too will hold off from making any further bookings at present, including those we were planning to make whilst on board.

I do find some of the snarking and lampooning on this thread of those of us who value the Cunard frormality and dress codes to be regrettable. If that's what is important for us about Cunard - and it is - then so be it.