WOW - huge change for us - bicycles are now on prohibited list

I hope this conversation will broaden somehow. I will post the formal response I got from HAL, with no explanation just that they won't make exceptions. I've had very nice conversations with Cunard, Celebrity and Oceania, who will, at this time, welcome bikes.

I still think it's a conversation to keep alive.

I hope this conversation will broaden somehow. I will post the formal response I got from HAL, with no explanation just that they won't make exceptions. I've had very nice conversations with Cunard, Celebrity and Oceania, who will, at this time, welcome bikes.

 

I still think it's a conversation to keep alive.

If they make an exception, it could be to a person who would abuse it and ride the bike in the hallways, the Lido, etc. Just like the guy with the segway on our Westerdam cruise who caused injury to one and near injury to several. (After the incident, the segways went on the prohibited list).

I'm sure you are not such a person, but sadly they do exist.

Regarding bicycles on board a HAL cruise, we were looking forward to our retirement years to travel the world by bicycle and using HAL to transit between destinations. Although transport by boat is timely, it is so much more comfortable than the "cattle call" that flying has become. Also it was so much safer for our bicycles.

First off, I must admit that I am not a "cruiser". I am one who prefers to immerse myself, as much as possible, in the local culture and to meet the local people. In my personal view, a cruise does not allow that. I see it, perhaps, as a sampler of a region when a few hours are spent in a port allowing and promoting the shopping aspects of travel. I understand some individuals enjoyment of cruising, the safety aspects, the ability to see many locations with ones residence at hand. We have traveled with HAL a couple of times and via contact with Ship Services gained permission to bring and store our touring bicycles in our cabin for the duration of the cruise. Mind you, we did transition cruises, San Diego to Vancouver and Vancouver to Los Angeles. The return trip would be by bicycle. The bicycles remained in our cabin for the duration and were only seen upon embarkation and debarkation. I am aware we were noticed because during meals, we always took our meals in the dining rooms rather than the buffets, we sat with other passengers and shared life stories which included travels by bicycle. I could expand on the benefits of travel by bicycle, however I am aware that such an discussion may be lost on those who have not or are unable to experience this mode to touring.

I was made aware of Holland America's change in policy as we booked our travel last year for this past spring. I have gone through the process to gain an explanation and understanding of the ban on bicycles with minimal response:

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line concerning your concern. I went ahead and looked more into this matter for you this morning. When speaking with my Ship services department it was recently update back in august that bicycles will no longer be allowed. Based on a lot of complications and issues that we have had with several other guests we had to make the tough call to not allow them on board anymore. I do apologize for any inconvenience that this might cause.

Thank you for contacting Holland America Line. Please feel free to contact us if we may of additional assistance, or visit us online. We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future!

Savor the Journey,

Nick

I did respond requesting Orlando Ashford's office for explanation to no avail. In initial requests we offered to sign waivers, obtain liability insurance and to meet personally with HAL representatives. We have a history of traveling safely with bicycles on board with HAL, we are respectful of others and are willing and able to follow directives which will allow us to travel with bicycles. Mind you, the bicycles function as luggage carriers, as they do when we check into hotels, and not as mobility devices on board. I have not heard further from HAL. BTW, HAL, Holland America Lines, not allowing bicycles is very much an oxymoron as Holland is one of the foremost places in the world for travel by bicycle, as is Seattle. I am disappointed in HAL's policy change.

My reason for posting is to chime in with the minimal response I have received from HAL and perhaps see what alternatives are available.

Regarding bicycles on board a HAL cruise, we were looking forward to our retirement years to travel the world by bicycle and using HAL to transit between destinations. Although transport by boat is timely, it is so much more comfortable than the "cattle call" that flying has become. Also it was so much safer for our bicycles.

First off, I must admit that I am not a "cruiser". I am one who prefers to immerse myself, as much as possible, in the local culture and to meet the local people. In my personal view, a cruise does not allow that. I see it, perhaps, as a sampler of a region when a few hours are spent in a port allowing and promoting the shopping aspects of travel. I understand some individuals enjoyment of cruising, the safety aspects, the ability to see many locations with ones residence at hand. We have traveled with HAL a couple of times and via contact with Ship Services gained permission to bring and store our touring bicycles in our cabin for the duration of the cruise. Mind you, we did transition cruises, San Diego to Vancouver and Vancouver to Los Angeles. The return trip would be by bicycle. The bicycles remained in our cabin for the duration and were only seen upon embarkation and debarkation. I am aware we were noticed because during meals, we always took our meals in the dining rooms rather than the buffets, we sat with other passengers and shared life stories which included travels by bicycle. I could expand on the benefits of travel by bicycle, however I am aware that such an discussion may be lost on those who have not or are unable to experience this mode to touring.

I was made aware of Holland America's change in policy as we booked our travel last year for this past spring. I have gone through the process to gain an explanation and understanding of the ban on bicycles with minimal response:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line concerning your concern. I went ahead and looked more into this matter for you this morning. When speaking with my Ship services department it was recently update back in august that bicycles will no longer be allowed. Based on a lot of complications and issues that we have had with several other guests we had to make the tough call to not allow them on board anymore. I do apologize for any inconvenience that this might cause.

Thank you for contacting Holland America Line. Please feel free to contact us if we may of additional assistance, or visit us online. We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future!

Savor the Journey,

Nick

 

I did respond requesting Orlando Ashford's office for explanation to no avail. In initial requests we offered to sign waivers, obtain liability insurance and to meet personally with HAL representatives. We have a history of traveling safely with bicycles on board with HAL, we are respectful of others and are willing and able to follow directives which will allow us to travel with bicycles. Mind you, the bicycles function as luggage carriers, as they do when we check into hotels, and not as mobility devices on board. I have not heard further from HAL. BTW, HAL, Holland America Lines, not allowing bicycles is very much an oxymoron as Holland is one of the foremost places in the world for travel by bicycle, as is Seattle. I am disappointed in HAL's policy change.

 

My reason for posting is to chime in with the minimal response I have received from HAL and perhaps see what alternatives are available.

Bolding is mine. The response seems quite clear to me. It alludes to issues and problems so...

They had issues with a few "bad apples" and unfortunately those "bad apples" spoiled the opportunities for the rest of the barrel. Sounds like what we experienced with the segway which I mentioned previously happened with inconsiderate bicycle users as well, sadly.

A shame that a few have to spoil it for the rest.

Bolding is mine. The response seems quite clear to me. It alludes to issues and problems so...

 

They had issues with a few "bad apples" and unfortunately those "bad apples" spoiled the opportunities for the rest of the barrel. Sounds like what we experienced with the segway which I mentioned previously happened with inconsiderate bicycle users as well, sadly.

 

A shame that a few have to spoil it for the rest.

Thanks for a response. I am sure passengers such as yourself are pleased with the new policy. Next will be wheelchairs and other mobility devices as, I suspect, others have been "mowed down" by those inconsiderate few. However I doubt it was just a bicycle that was involved in the "bad apple" incident - suspicions are that alcohol was involved and that is where I have seen issues on board. And, of course, alcohol will not be banned as it is a significant source of revenue, despite the "bad apples". Typically the remedy is to ban the individual. As I mentioned we have a history of safe and respectful travel with bicycles prior to HAL's recent ban which was not taken into account. I am aware that travelers of our sort are extremely minor and of no consequence to HAL. I wish you well on your Prinsendam excursion. It is truly a fine vessel and I will miss it.

Thanks for a response. I am sure passengers such as yourself are pleased with the new policy. Next will be wheelchairs and other mobility devices as, I suspect, others have been "mowed down" by those inconsiderate few. However I doubt it was just a bicycle that was involved in the "bad apple" incident - suspicions are that alcohol was involved and that is where I have seen issues on board. And, of course, alcohol will not be banned as it is a significant source of revenue, despite the "bad apples". Typically the remedy is to ban the individual. As I mentioned we have a history of safe and respectful travel with bicycles prior to HAL's recent ban which was not taken into account. I am aware that travelers of our sort are extremely minor and of no consequence to HAL. I wish you well on your Prinsendam excursion. It is truly a fine vessel and I will miss it.

Don't misunderstand me. I am NOT against bicycles.

I was simply stating what I read into HAL's reply. I can tell you that there was no alcohol involved in the segway incidents that was obvious. The guy was just a jerk with no regard for anyone but himself, sadly.

Sadly, it is hard to make exceptions as then others will complain that they were not allowed to bring theirs - no matter what the prohibited items are.

Thanks for the good wishes :) Hoping all your cruises are good in the future and you can enjoy your bicycles on them all :)

Thanks for a response. I am sure passengers such as yourself are pleased with the new policy. Next will be wheelchairs and other mobility devices as, I suspect, others have been "mowed down" by those inconsiderate few. However I doubt it was just a bicycle that was involved in the "bad apple" incident - suspicions are that alcohol was involved and that is where I have seen issues on board. And, of course, alcohol will not be banned as it is a significant source of revenue, despite the "bad apples". Typically the remedy is to ban the individual. As I mentioned we have a history of safe and respectful travel with bicycles prior to HAL's recent ban which was not taken into account. I am aware that travelers of our sort are extremely minor and of no consequence to HAL. I wish you well on your Prinsendam excursion. It is truly a fine vessel and I will miss it.

As with everything else in life, it just takes one "bad apple" to upset the apple cart, so to speak. HAL has to factor that in to their decisions. Personally, having been "mowed down" by a scooter, I'd be quite happy if they were banned, but HAL caters to an older crowd, and so it is not likely they will ever do that and I may need one myself one day. I have cruised on an RCI ship where the captain always took his Harley motorbike, and people had cycles - and yes, some did try to ride them on the ship, so were severely curtailed. Not sure if they were banned or not - but that's the problem, it just takes one to spoil things for everyone. .

Bolding is mine. The response seems quite clear to me. It alludes to issues and problems so...

 

They had issues with a few "bad apples" and unfortunately those "bad apples" spoiled the opportunities for the rest of the barrel. Sounds like what we experienced with the segway which I mentioned previously happened with inconsiderate bicycle users as well, sadly.

 

A shame that a few have to spoil it for the rest.

Ships are closed systems, as we have noted in the past - the few can and do spoil it for the many. Those who won't wash their hands before using common utensils, leave their balcony doors open, put prohibited items down the commode, use balconies as if they had no neighbors up. down or sideways, and now recklessly abuse a mobility option that put other passengers in peril.

We also had Segeways scooting through the Pinnacle restaurant one night. But the tragedy is one woman was also using her Segeway very responsibly and some even how got it to the top of the huge Borobordur Temple in Indonesia (with onsite guide apparently allowing this). Her travel world was immensely expanded by the use to this device. Now it is gone for her too.

Cruising is a unique and self-selected environment. One does agree tacitly or imliciety to give up certain freedoms when coming on board.

Gosh, I'm really sorry to hear this. I'm no a bicycler, but it causes me not one ounce of inconvenience to walk onto the ship behind someone who is carefully pushing their bike beside them. I feel like the irresponsible "bad apples" should be the ones punished. Like the scooters. One cruise I was on an older man was using a scooter responsibly, but would park it and sit at a table. But then his relatives would jump on it to go get something from the buffet and about mow people down. That ticked me off. I think they should address the bad apples individually and not punish those following the rules.

In most cases it is simply better to avoid the problem altogether. Punishing a wrongdoer doesn't make up for the diminished cruise for others.

igraf

Gosh, I'm really sorry to hear this. I'm no a bicycler, but it causes me not one ounce of inconvenience to walk onto the ship behind someone who is carefully pushing their bike beside them. I feel like the irresponsible "bad apples" should be the ones punished. Like the scooters. One cruise I was on an older man was using a scooter responsibly, but would park it and sit at a table. But then his relatives would jump on it to go get something from the buffet and about mow people down. That ticked me off. I think they should address the bad apples individually and not punish those following the rules.

I haven't read all of the above but I would guess it is their liability insurance; they don't want to get sued. Daily rentals at ports sounds good but make sure you have insurance that covers anything medical for foreign ports. In Copenhagen I noticed one morning everyone riding bikes to school and work. They were all in a line and going the same speed. No bike jockeys and racers. If we rode bikes, the way people here drive on I 95 there would be medical issues!!

I haven't read all of the above but I would guess it is their liability insurance; they don't want to get sued. Daily rentals at ports sounds good but make sure you have insurance that covers anything medical for foreign ports. In Copenhagen I noticed one morning everyone riding bikes to school and work. They were all in a line and going the same speed. No bike jockeys and racers. If we rode bikes, the way people here drive on I 95 there would be medical issues!!

How could they get sued if you kept your bike in your cabin or in it's bag if it is a a folding bike and then rolled or carried it off the ship? Please explain that to me.

If they wanted to avoid the problem of some idiot riding their bike on the ship and if they also wanted to be customer friendly (which they certainly do not want to be), they could have a bike holding area somewhere and you pick up the bike on the way off the ship.

DON

How could they get sued if you kept your bike in your cabin or in it's bag if it is a a folding bike and then rolled or carried it off the ship? Please explain that to me.

 

If they wanted to avoid the problem of some idiot riding their bike on the ship and if they also wanted to be customer friendly (which they certainly do not want to be), they could have a bike holding area somewhere and you pick up the bike on the way off the ship.

 

DON

One of the downsides picking a mass market cruise line. You want individual attention at mass market prices. We seem to be hearing a lot of these similar complaints of late. I want this to be all about me, but I also want to use a low price mass market cruise line. I don't think it will work this way.

Considering that public transportation has become more bike friendly, with special racks or spaces for bikes, it is sad to see a cruise line going in the other direction.

How could they get sued if you kept your bike in your cabin or in it's bag if it is a a folding bike and then rolled or carried it off the ship? Please explain that to me.

 

If they wanted to avoid the problem of some idiot riding their bike on the ship and if they also wanted to be customer friendly (which they certainly do not want to be), they could have a bike holding area somewhere and you pick up the bike on the way off the ship.

 

DON

A bike storage area would be ideal, but that would require space and also crew to open the storage area so you could reclaim your bike. They can't all be delivered to the gangway and lined up there because there's no room and again, it would take crew time. If you want the bikes all nicely lined up on the pier, that's even more crew time. How much would you be willing to cover the cost of a bike-storage service?

A bike storage area would be ideal, but that would require space and also crew to open the storage area so you could reclaim your bike. They can't all be delivered to the gangway and lined up there because there's no room and again, it would take crew time. If you want the bikes all nicely lined up on the pier, that's even more crew time. How much would you be willing to cover the cost of a bike-storage service?

Good option actually. Charge a cargo fee for each bike, and require prearranged check out at the pier. That way only those whose bikes will be going for a spin have their bikes moved. Fees charged should cover all staff costs. Maybe have a set cargo fee for the cruise and a modest additional fee per port that covers the added labor. (Add in a bottle of water at each port for the "bike concierge" service and market it as a Dutch tradition.)

It's a win-win. Bikes are not accessible except at prearranged ports, so no one is riding the decks. They are also not taking up space in cabins. HAL gets a modest fee to cover the service and a new service to market. Pax gets their own bike....

I'm not an avid cyclist here, but regularly ride, and am in the process of recovering from being "bitten in the butt" by a bike that did not fit.

Good option actually. Charge a cargo fee for each bike, and require prearranged check out at the pier. That way only those whose bikes will be going for a spin have their bikes moved. Fees charged should cover all staff costs. Maybe have a set cargo fee for the cruise and a modest additional fee per port that covers the added labor. (Add in a bottle of water at each port for the "bike concierge" service and market it as a Dutch tradition.)

 

It's a win-win. Bikes are not accessible except at prearranged ports, so no one is riding the decks. They are also not taking up space in cabins. HAL gets a modest fee to cover the service and a new service to market. Pax gets their own bike....

 

I'm not an avid cyclist here, but regularly ride, and am in the process of recovering from being "bitten in the butt" by a bike that did not fit.

Since staff allegedly is spread thin already, how does paying for the "costs of staff" for this extra personalized service get calculated?

Which staff during the disembarkation and re-embarkation period would be paid extra? Who would cover for the staff taken off their regular duties to provide this extra service. Would the time for pick and deliver need to be strictly regulated for this additional staff service?

Ship's crew and services are a zero sum game. They are not unlimited and bought and sold at whim. Though I understand some off-duty staff members do provide baby-sitting services. But that would most likely be the Children Center activity staff who would be available to pick up this additional income since they are truly off duty once the Children Centers close for the day.

I haven't been on a bicycle for 50 years, but I think it really stinks that responsible people are no longer able to bring bicycles aboard because of X number of irresponsible people, but evidently that's how it's going to be. By this quote attributed to HAL: "a lot of complications and issues that we have had with several other guests we had to make the tough call to not allow them on board anymore" it's closer to a sure thing that there have been multiple problems over an extended period of time.

The real shame is that those who've responsibly (and safely) done this for years are now denied, but we live in a litigious society. I look forward to reading reports of their trips on alternate lines... which is the logical choice for them now.

That quoted HAL response does not clarify anything. It is so generic that the actual events it refers to might, if clarified, be viewed as a lame excuse for the decision.

They should at least allow folding bikes, with a signed agreement that they are not to be used on board.

That quoted HAL response does not clarify anything. It is so generic that the actual events it refers to might, if clarified, be viewed as a lame excuse for the decision.

 

They should at least allow folding bikes, with a signed agreement that they are not to be used on board.

I don't disagree at all but.....

that was the agreement our segway guy had that caused so much disruption and injury.

It didn't work and the only solution was for the ship to confiscate his segway. He didn't get it back until he left the ship. But, that didn't happen until after several complaints, warnings to him (which he ignored) and a passenger being injured.

The risk to the ship with a passenger injured and others nearly injured was pretty signficant I would guess, since they permitted it and, I would think, would be liable?

Sadly, it just takes a few incidents. The segway guy nearly ran me down and I was recovering from a serious olecranon surgery. Well enough to cruise, but not well enough to be knocked down and have it re-broken. He did run down another passenger who had to have medical treatment.

I don't know what happened with bicycles to cause this. I can only use the segway as an example.

One serious injury on board and they (HAL) are going to take a hard look.

It's sad I know. Some jerk(s) ruined it for the rest.

We do not know that HAL has put bicycle in the same category as Segways. Plus, if you were to study all shipboard accidents, those which involve either might be so rare that they couldn't reasonably assign equal risk to everything with wheels.

Oh that is not good news. We bought bikes in Copenhagen a couple of years ago to ride before the cruise and then took them on our Baltic Cruise. We had a balcony where we stored them and were very careful to clean the tires before we got back on the ship. We also waited to get off the ship after the crush of people. We only have a few incidents where we tried to get into an elevator, there would be one person and they refused to move to allow one bike in.

We so enjoyed all our ports with our bikes, got to see so much more of the real city, not just the tourist areas.

Gosh, thank you for all the responses. I do wish to hear different peoples' concerns and considerations. I know passengers who are bicyclists on cruises are a very small minority. As I mentioned our intent during retirement was to use the ship as transportation from one cycle tour location to another. We are "cycle tourists" that is we used the bicycles as transportation and carry all of our required needs. However, these days we are "credit card" campers - no tent and sleeping bag, we bed in hotels, motels, B&Bs, Air B&B, by invitation, etc.

Perhaps I should have used the term "repositioning" to describe our preferred "cruise". Also we only planned to use the bicycles to ride to the port of embarkation, roll our "luggage carriers" to our cabin, then ride/tour again upon disembarking. This is how we have performed in the past on Holland America. And yes, like carolcp, we are and were very conscientious regarding the cleanliness of our luggage carriers and provided additional gratuity to our cabin steward to "work around" the bicycles. If and when we had ports of call we would spend the time walking through neighborhoods, cemeteries (in Barcelona, fascinating), taking public transportation (in Kusadasi to Ephesus) rather than risk missing the departure time. We look at our travels as an adventure and would enjoy sharing our day and hearing about fellow passengers' adventures while dining, particularly on the smaller Prinsendam. It has been an experience we were looking toward during retirement while we still can tour by bicycle to reposition from Montreal to San Diego, San Diego to Sydney, Lisbon to Ft.Lauderdale, etc. Its a different way to see the world and, actually, a very non-threatening way to interact with people in most of the world. We will still make the travels, we'll just need to adjust our plans - isn't that part of travel - accommodating changing conditions?

Anyway, we have not completely given up on Holland America. I would still like to hear from Mr Orlando Ashford before we relinquish our Mariners Society status.

Safe and amazing adventures to all!

Gosh, thank you for all the responses. I do wish to hear different peoples' concerns and considerations. I know passengers who are bicyclists on cruises are a very small minority. As I mentioned our intent during retirement was to use the ship as transportation from one cycle tour location to another. We are "cycle tourists" that is we used the bicycles as transportation and carry all of our required needs. However, these days we are "credit card" campers - no tent and sleeping bag, we bed in hotels, motels, B&Bs, Air B&B, by invitation, etc.

Perhaps I should have used the term "repositioning" to describe our preferred "cruise". Also we only planned to use the bicycles to ride to the port of embarkation, roll our "luggage carriers" to our cabin, then ride/tour again upon disembarking. This is how we have performed in the past on Holland America. And yes, like carolcp, we are and were very conscientious regarding the cleanliness of our luggage carriers and provided additional gratuity to our cabin steward to "work around" the bicycles. If and when we had ports of call we would spend the time walking through neighborhoods, cemeteries (in Barcelona, fascinating), taking public transportation (in Kusadasi to Ephesus) rather than risk missing the departure time. We look at our travels as an adventure and would enjoy sharing our day and hearing about fellow passengers' adventures while dining, particularly on the smaller Prinsendam. It has been an experience we were looking toward during retirement while we still can tour by bicycle to reposition from Montreal to San Diego, San Diego to Sydney, Lisbon to Ft.Lauderdale, etc. Its a different way to see the world and, actually, a very non-threatening way to interact with people in most of the world. We will still make the travels, we'll just need to adjust our plans - isn't that part of travel - accommodating changing conditions?

Anyway, we have not completely given up on Holland America. I would still like to hear from Mr Orlando Ashford before we relinquish our Mariners Society status.

Safe and amazing adventures to all!

This is a lot about you, you realize. Not about anyone else, or company policy which we can still assume is not totally arbitrary or capricious.

However, look on the bright side. Gluten-free has now taken over cruise travel even though less than 1% have true confirmable disease conditions requiring these now universal menu accommodations. Maybe in time bike carryons will also gain similar wide-spread appeal.

I hear you. I like riding bikes too. And I think it is a terrific way to see ports on your own. I am sorry HAL put this restriction on your carry-on luggage. But the issue on a mass market cruise line will need to go well beyond what you want, or what you are willing to do.

You should have been around here when HAL stopped allowing unlimited bottles of wine to be brought on board too. If that uproar did not cause HAL to relent, a few bike enthusiasts will have an uphill climb. Best wishes, and since you want a ship solely inter-continental for transportation, the Cunard ships might work better. I think they might even offer more cargo options.

Good option actually. Charge a cargo fee for each bike, and require prearranged check out at the pier. That way only those whose bikes will be going for a spin have their bikes moved. Fees charged should cover all staff costs. Maybe have a set cargo fee for the cruise and a modest additional fee per port that covers the added labor. (Add in a bottle of water at each port for the "bike concierge" service and market it as a Dutch tradition.)

 

It's a win-win. Bikes are not accessible except at prearranged ports, so no one is riding the decks. They are also not taking up space in cabins. HAL gets a modest fee to cover the service and a new service to market. Pax gets their own bike....

 

I'm not an avid cyclist here, but regularly ride, and am in the process of recovering from being "bitten in the butt" by a bike that did not fit.

Actually I think this is a good solution.

Assuming cyclists are willing to pay a nominal fee, they should all write to HAL and suggest it.

<snip>

 

You should have been around here when HAL stopped allowing unlimited bottles of wine to be brought on board too. If that uproar did not cause HAL to relent, a few bike enthusiasts will have an uphill climb. Best wishes, and since you want a ship solely inter-continental for transportation, the Cunard ships might work better. I think they might even offer more cargo options.

Just a bit of correction in the history here.

HAL DID relent due to the writing campaign.

They not only changed the effective date of the new wine rules, they also amended their change.

Originally they were not going to allow any additional bottles of wine to be brought on board (except for the allowed "free" bottle).

They changed the rule to allow as many bottles as one wants to bring on with the corkage fee.

So, yes, they did listen and had a middle meeting ground which I think was satisactory.