WOW - huge change for us - bicycles are now on prohibited list

Gosh, thank you for all the responses. I do wish to hear different peoples' concerns and considerations. I know passengers who are bicyclists on cruises are a very small minority. As I mentioned our intent during retirement was to use the ship as transportation from one cycle tour location to another. We are "cycle tourists" that is we used the bicycles as transportation and carry all of our required needs. However, these days we are "credit card" campers - no tent and sleeping bag, we bed in hotels, motels, B&Bs, Air B&B, by invitation, etc.

Perhaps I should have used the term "repositioning" to describe our preferred "cruise". Also we only planned to use the bicycles to ride to the port of embarkation, roll our "luggage carriers" to our cabin, then ride/tour again upon disembarking. This is how we have performed in the past on Holland America. And yes, like carolcp, we are and were very conscientious regarding the cleanliness of our luggage carriers and provided additional gratuity to our cabin steward to "work around" the bicycles. If and when we had ports of call we would spend the time walking through neighborhoods, cemeteries (in Barcelona, fascinating), taking public transportation (in Kusadasi to Ephesus) rather than risk missing the departure time. We look at our travels as an adventure and would enjoy sharing our day and hearing about fellow passengers' adventures while dining, particularly on the smaller Prinsendam. It has been an experience we were looking toward during retirement while we still can tour by bicycle to reposition from Montreal to San Diego, San Diego to Sydney, Lisbon to Ft.Lauderdale, etc. Its a different way to see the world and, actually, a very non-threatening way to interact with people in most of the world. We will still make the travels, we'll just need to adjust our plans - isn't that part of travel - accommodating changing conditions?

Anyway, we have not completely given up on Holland America. I would still like to hear from Mr Orlando Ashford before we relinquish our Mariners Society status.

Safe and amazing adventures to all!

Can you box your bicycles for transport? Try asking HAL if there's a way to take them on the ship to be stored as excess baggage. What about shipping a bicycle ahead? Is that prohibitively expensive?

HAL has provisions to store electrical cords, wine, and other "prohibited" items for the duration of a cruise. At least in the case of wine, they have procedures to move things from the gangway to that location at each port. It should not be that big a deal to expand the process to deal with bicycles and (even if for a fee) to return them to the gangway at intermediate ports.

Roy

Anyway, we have not completely given up on Holland America. I would still like to hear from Mr Orlando Ashford before we relinquish our Mariners Society status.

Personally, I'd hang onto my MS status even if I sailed on other lines for a while.

In the unfortunate but possible event that illness, aging or injury end cycling days for one or both of you, you may decide to continue to cruise with HAL again.

Here's to new adventures, regardless!

I have sort of skimmed through this thread and dont think it has been mentioned but how long do you think it will be before they introduce Bicycle Excursions. On our last Thomson Cruise

They had a staff member lead a gang?flock?wheel? of cyclists on a cycle tour at most if not all of the ports. The bikes belonged to the ship

and were stored out of sight on the embarkation deck though they caused quite a clutter while others were trying to get to the gangplank.

As a non cyclists since DW fell off in Vietnam I didnt look into this but assumed that a charge would be made. The downside would maybe that they didnt go where you wanted to go and as anyone could go there would be an experience gap and an ill fitting bike.

I have sort of skimmed through this thread and dont think it has been mentioned but how long do you think it will be before they introduce Bicycle Excursions. On our last Thomson Cruise

They had a staff member lead a gang?flock?wheel? of cyclists on a cycle tour at most if not all of the ports. The bikes belonged to the ship

and were stored out of sight on the embarkation deck though they caused quite a clutter while others were trying to get to the gangplank.

As a non cyclists since DW fell off in Vietnam I didnt look into this but assumed that a charge would be made. The downside would maybe that they didnt go where you wanted to go and as anyone could go there would be an experience gap and an ill fitting bike.

They offer some HAL shore excursion bike tours now. Bikes are provided by the tour company. They are obviously recognizing passengers like a biking option. So this might well be is a start of a new recognition HAL passengers do like bike riding in port. Supporting those bike riding shore excursions could be one way of voting with your "dollars" to demonstrate support for the activity.

Yes - Thomson also do proper excursions on bikes as you say, they use an onshore company and have a "proper" guide and in that case the bikes remain on shore. I suppose its along the lines of a walking tour but on wheels :)

Carnival Corporation - List of prohibited items: (No Segways)

https://help.carnival.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4090

Further detail, exemptions and exceptions:

https://help.carnival.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2261

Allowable to be stored in cabin, but for port use only: https://help.carnival.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3632 (Segways now okay)

One gets very confused and conflicting online information about this evolving issue. However, it may be productive to argue for inclusion of folding bikes in this last "port only use" exemption list.

They offer some HAL shore excursion bike tours now. Bikes are provided by the tour company. They are obviously recognizing passengers like a biking option. So this might well be is a start of a new recognition HAL passengers do like bike riding in port. Supporting those bike riding shore excursions could be one way of voting with your "dollars" to demonstrate support for the activity.

So they take away the right for you to bring your own customized bicycle so that they can sell bike tours where you get a lousy uncustomized bike and have to bike where they want you to bike and at a pace limited by the slowest member of the tour. Is that what you want us to support with our dollars. My brother-in-law is an avid biker and I can guarantee that he would not be caught dead on the bikes that HAL has for you to use for a large fee.

I do not ride a bicycle but if I did, would vote with my wheels and bike right over to a cruise line that lets me take my bike on board.

DON

I was looking at some of the links posted and noticed that Carnival passengers are limited to knives with blades of up to 4 inches in length, while HAL pax have a knife blade limit of 2.5 inches. It might not seem like much of a distinction, but I'd be very leery of knife fights with Carnival cruisers. They have the potential to be better armed. ;)

I hope you get special dispensation from Holland America, kahtrav.

Playing the Devil's advocate here, I would bet that HAL's walls and passenger's have been beat up by bicycles one too many times. A bicycling dorm mate in the far distant past scratched the daylights out of the stairway walls. Every day. With just a little bit of care the ape would never have scratched a thing.

Why are they banning coolers bigger than 12 inches?

So they take away the right for you to bring your own customized bicycle so that they can sell bike tours where you get a lousy uncustomized bike and have to bike where they want you to bike and at a pace limited by the slowest member of the tour. Is that what you want us to support with our dollars. My brother-in-law is an avid biker and I can guarantee that he would not be caught dead on the bikes that HAL has for you to use for a large fee.

 

I do not ride a bicycle but if I did, would vote with my wheels and bike right over to a cruise line that lets me take my bike on board.

 

DON

I don't think the bike restriction was made in order to sell more tours. Bike tours on HAL aren't new. We did the Bike and Brew tour in Juneau at least 5 years ago.

I agree that a slow/inexperienced rider does impact a group ride. But that isn't just on bike rides. I've seen it on horseback excursions where the description said "experienced riders only" and a novice who signed up anyway made us stop every 20 feet. Frustrating for the horses as well as the riders. And it happens on walking tours where people don't pay attention to the "steep slope" or "uneven terrain" warnings. You just have to accept it for what it is.

DH and I are past the days of bike tours, as we don't want to be those slow people who hold others back, but we've done fine on group tours and individual rental bikes in our past travels. Most of our rentals have been from bike shops where the bikes are in good condition and they make sure all adjustments are good before you go. We've also used "citibikes" and even rode coaster bikes on a tour on Grand Turk. It's still a nice time out on a bike.

So they take away the right for you to bring your own customized bicycle so that they can sell bike tours where you get a lousy uncustomized bike and have to bike where they want you to bike and at a pace limited by the slowest member of the tour. Is that what you want us to support with our dollars. My brother-in-law is an avid biker and I can guarantee that he would not be caught dead on the bikes that HAL has for you to use for a large fee.

 

I do not ride a bicycle but if I did, would vote with my wheels and bike right over to a cruise line that lets me take my bike on board.

 

DON

Whatever. Nothing prevents you from renting bikes locally on your own. HAL won't let me take my tiny Fiat500 onboard either which means they force me to either use their shore excursion rentals or rent a car on my own.

Whatever. Nothing prevents you from renting bikes locally on your own. HAL won't let me take my tiny Fiat500 onboard either which means they force me to either use their shore excursion rentals or rent a car on my own.

If there's no better analogy than that from the naysayers, HAL's decision is sad indeed.

Personally, although I doubt I'd ever bring a bicycle on cruise, I sympathize with those who had a good thing and suddenly lost it, especially when I cannot imagine how the restriction is realistically benefiting others.

If there's no better analogy than that from the naysayers, HAL's decision is sad indeed.

 

Personally, although I doubt I'd ever bring a bicycle on cruise, I sympathize with those who had a good thing and suddenly lost it, especially when I cannot imagine how the restriction is realistically benefiting others.

(The Fiat thing was a joke, okay a bad joke. ) However, the little mini 12x12 coolers did make the cut on the restricted list, which was asked about on another thread.

Other reports indicated hauling bikes through the hallways and stairwells, esp that last narrow one when embarking on tenders, left behind some gouge marks. That could have been a consideration too. Let's hope they do find a win-win accommodation. Keeping a folding bike in a large rolling suitcase - considering they allow "wheeled carts" -- should protect the halls and speed access. Then what do you do with the suitcase once it is off the ship?

I do remember reading the world cruise blog and there were crew members who had bikes on board and used them in ports. One crew couple even had a tandem bike they rode - that large thing would be hard to get into hallways. Think they will make an exception for crew bikes - or - world cruise?

So they take away the right for you to bring your own customized bicycle so that they can sell bike tours where you get a lousy uncustomized bike and have to bike where they want you to bike and at a pace limited by the slowest member of the tour. Is that what you want us to support with our dollars. My brother-in-law is an avid biker and I can guarantee that he would not be caught dead on the bikes that HAL has for you to use for a large fee.

 

I do not ride a bicycle but if I did, would vote with my wheels and bike right over to a cruise line that lets me take my bike on board.

 

DON

I'm not getting where bringing ones own bike was a right. Didn't those who did so have to get permission?

And when did HAL start renting or loaning their bikes? I have only seen crew members on HAL bikes.

Have you considered writing to the real decision makers with picture and specs of YOUR bikes (along with pictures of your bikes broken down and next to a standard 25" suitcase).

A well thought out, brief and polite letter could really help.

Here is the Executive Contact Info for HAL

http://elliott.org/company-contacts/holland-america/

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I don't disagree at all but.....

 

that was the agreement our segway guy had that caused so much disruption and injury.

 

It didn't work and the only solution was for the ship to confiscate his segway. He didn't get it back until he left the ship. But, that didn't happen until after several complaints, warnings to him (which he ignored) and a passenger being injured.

 

The risk to the ship with a passenger injured and others nearly injured was pretty signficant I would guess, since they permitted it and, I would think, would be liable?

 

 

Sadly, it just takes a few incidents. The segway guy nearly ran me down and I was recovering from a serious olecranon surgery. Well enough to cruise, but not well enough to be knocked down and have it re-broken. He did run down another passenger who had to have medical treatment.

 

I don't know what happened with bicycles to cause this. I can only use the segway as an example.

 

One serious injury on board and they (HAL) are going to take a hard look.

 

It's sad I know. Some jerk(s) ruined it for the rest.[/quote

 

 

I'm really glad to see more discussion here. We have been on several cruises where the ship stored golf carts for port use (though HAL says they won't do that now either). The issue of cabin space is a non-issue - it compromises our space but never was in the way of the staff, or cause cleaning issues), I am sure there were a few people who weren't thrilled with our bike in the hallways, but we waited until most passengers were off before moving about). The vast majority were really supportive and thought it was great.

 

 

I'd love to be able to sign a waiver or agreement (and, for that matter, would even accept leaving it in it's luggage case for transport across - though we love using it in port). I think the biggest thing that has probably caused this issue is the unwillingness of the "ship" to enforce anything in favor of the "customer is always right mentality". I actually think it started when dress "codes" became "suggestions" and they no longer required them in the dining room (now you see jeans and sometimes even shorts on formal nights). If the safety personnel had confiscated the Segway the first time it was used on-board, it wouldn't have escalated to the situation described. I have never seen or heard of a bicycle being ridden on the ship, though I did hear of one person being very demanding about his right to take it on a busy tender, rather than waiting a bit.

 

Just another note, not related. We just got off a 7 day cruise on HAL with our family and, just since January, there have been a number of "downgrades" in service. One, in particular, doesn't affect us, but my daughter likes a glass of wine with dinner - I suggested that she buy a bottle and have them keep it for other nights, but they no longer will do that - you are expected to take any remaining to your cabin to drink there - they must make a bundle off that change (or maybe not - in our case, she ordered that one glass and nothing else for the week). The wine stewards just stood around most of the evening since they weren't pouring much wine - I don't think this will be a "win-win" for the ship.

 

I'm into "Cunard" planning for next year, but would like to collect some of the comments from here to send to HAL in a response letter (I'll do it without any identifying info). I don't honestly expect them to budge, but, want to keep working at it. If they'd actually give a reason, but the vague "for the safety of crew and passengers" doesn't do that.

 

Thanks for keeping the conversation going,

 

Karen

I don't think the bike restriction was made in order to sell more tours. Bike tours on HAL aren't new. We did the Bike and Brew tour in Juneau at least 5 years ago.

 

I agree that a slow/inexperienced rider does impact a group ride. But that isn't just on bike rides. I've seen it on horseback excursions where the description said "experienced riders only" and a novice who signed up anyway made us stop every 20 feet. Frustrating for the horses as well as the riders. And it happens on walking tours where people don't pay attention to the "steep slope" or "uneven terrain" warnings. You just have to accept it for what it is.

 

DH and I are past the days of bike tours, as we don't want to be those slow people who hold others back, but we've done fine on group tours and individual rental bikes in our past travels. Most of our rentals have been from bike shops where the bikes are in good condition and they make sure all adjustments are good before you go. We've also used "citibikes" and even rode coaster bikes on a tour on Grand Turk. It's still a nice time out on a bike.

That is one reason why I almost never take ship tours. When I set up private tours, I make it clear to the people who respond that they must be mobile. On many of my cruises, I have people taking several of my private tours on the same cruise. In one instance, a couple said that they were mobile but in reality they were barely mobile. They only held up the first tour that they shared with us. I kicked them off the other tours they signed up for.

You are stuck with selfish people like that on a ship tour but if you set up your own tours, you own the tour.

DON

I don't disagree at all but.....

 

that was the agreement our segway guy had that caused so much disruption and injury.

 

It didn't work and the only solution was for the ship to confiscate his segway. He didn't get it back until he left the ship. But, that didn't happen until after several complaints, warnings to him (which he ignored) and a passenger being injured.

 

The risk to the ship with a passenger injured and others nearly injured was pretty signficant I would guess, since they permitted it and, I would think, would be liable?

 

 

Sadly, it just takes a few incidents. The segway guy nearly ran me down and I was recovering from a serious olecranon surgery. Well enough to cruise, but not well enough to be knocked down and have it re-broken. He did run down another passenger who had to have medical treatment.

 

I don't know what happened with bicycles to cause this. I can only use the segway as an example.

 

One serious injury on board and they (HAL) are going to take a hard look.

 

It's sad I know. Some jerk(s) ruined it for the rest.[/quote

 

 

I'm really glad to see more discussion here. We have been on several cruises where the ship stored golf carts for port use (though HAL says they won't do that now either). The issue of cabin space is a non-issue - it compromises our space but never was in the way of the staff, or cause cleaning issues), I am sure there were a few people who weren't thrilled with our bike in the hallways, but we waited until most passengers were off before moving about). The vast majority were really supportive and thought it was great.

 

 

I'd love to be able to sign a waiver or agreement (and, for that matter, would even accept leaving it in it's luggage case for transport across - though we love using it in port). I think the biggest thing that has probably caused this issue is the unwillingness of the "ship" to enforce anything in favor of the "customer is always right mentality". I actually think it started when dress "codes" became "suggestions" and they no longer required them in the dining room (now you see jeans and sometimes even shorts on formal nights). If the safety personnel had confiscated the Segway the first time it was used on-board, it wouldn't have escalated to the situation described. I have never seen or heard of a bicycle being ridden on the ship, though I did hear of one person being very demanding about his right to take it on a busy tender, rather than waiting a bit.

 

Just another note, not related. We just got off a 7 day cruise on HAL with our family and, just since January, there have been a number of "downgrades" in service. One, in particular, doesn't affect us, but my daughter likes a glass of wine with dinner - I suggested that she buy a bottle and have them keep it for other nights, but they no longer will do that - you are expected to take any remaining to your cabin to drink there - they must make a bundle off that change (or maybe not - in our case, she ordered that one glass and nothing else for the week). The wine stewards just stood around most of the evening since they weren't pouring much wine - I don't think this will be a "win-win" for the ship.

 

I'm into "Cunard" planning for next year, but would like to collect some of the comments from here to send to HAL in a response letter (I'll do it without any identifying info). I don't honestly expect them to budge, but, want to keep working at it. If they'd actually give a reason, but the vague "for the safety of crew and passengers" doesn't do that.

 

Thanks for keeping the conversation going,

 

Karen

I find it hard to believe that your daughter was unable to purchase a bottle of wine and have the wine steward hold the unfinished bottle for future nights in the MDR or elsewhere.

 

I have cruised with HAL since 2008 and they have always held our unfinished bottles. I am sure others can corroborate my experience, most recently on the Ziederdam.

 

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Please be more specific about your plan to indemnify HAL-CCL for any possible damage in order to carve out an exception for just you to take your bike on board?

Property damage - what limits

Personal injury - what limits

All risk - what limits

What carrier would provide this sort of indemnity coverage, under what jurisdiction, at what cost?

What would be required of HAL risk management before they accepted your indemnity offer?

What notice would be required to passengers regarding this personal indemnification coverage?

Does the injured passenger need to exchange insurance info exclusively with you, or with HAL too?

How does HAL ascertain who caused possible property damage in order to make a claim against your insurance carrier?

Eg: a non-profit group is required to get a one million dollars premises liability policy in order to rent a room for a four-hour, non-active meeting event. This costs approximately $150 dollars for those covered four hours.

Do we know if the Segway injured passenger filed a law suit against HAL for injuries sustained, or merely against the Segway owner? Personal injury lawyers always look for the deep pockets, regardless of lesser private indemnity agreements.

I find it hard to believe that your daughter was unable to purchase a bottle of wine and have the wine steward hold the unfinished bottle for future nights in the MDR or elsewhere.

 

I have cruised with HAL since 2008 and they have always held our unfinished bottles. I am sure others can corroborate my experience' date=' most recently on the Ziederdam.

 

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Not only do they hold the bottle for you but if you are dining elsewhere the following evening they will send your bottle there for you.

Absolutely they hold your bottle for you. Even if it just has half a glass in it!

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Absolutely they hold your bottle for you. Even if it just has half a glass in it!

 

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I even had my opened bottle of San Pellegrino follow me around. Tip: four days and the bubbles are gone, gone, gone. :loudcry: But it is good for at least three - one glass per setting.