No more cruising for a while.

What is UDP? I don't understand the acronym.

Ultimate Dining Package. Lets you dine in specialty all week for one price. For ours it is $168. Much cheaper than the difference to switch to a suite or an expensive line. We don't do it because we are fine with the included options, but if better service and better food is the main gripe (not sure it is), then that might be a great way to get at least closer to what you were missing.

There is a Huge difference between the Harmony and any cruise ship that was around 20 years ago. By size it probably 3 times bigger than any ship that was around back then. Today's large ships are about a lot of entertainment for a lot of passengers.

If you want a more personal experience like in the past I think you are going to have to stay away from Royal, Norwegian and Carnival and stick with the smaller operators.

A dear friend of ours just went on a two week Viking Ocean cruise to experience what they had to offer....much smaller ship, 900 or so passengers. It did a very nice Southern Caribbean itinerary going into the Panama Canal (not all the way through). The food she did admit was marvelous. No menu was repeated over the two week timespan. They managed to cater to her food desires, which is for NOT very spicey or exotic food, yet not just hamburgers or chicken cutlets either. So she was happy. Soft evening entertainment is how she described it (but she did say, that me and my DH would probably have been bored in the evenings), interesting lectures during the at sea days and lots of leisure time.

After chatting with her.....I can say, it will be a few years until we venture on that kind of cruise. We are in our mid 60's, but we want and like the 'high energy nighttime' of Royal.

Ultimate Dining Package. Lets you dine in specialty all week for one price. For ours it is $168. Much cheaper than the difference to switch to a suite or an expensive line. We don't do it because we are fine with the included options, but if better service and better food is the main gripe (not sure it is), then that might be a great way to get at least closer to what you were missing.

Thanks for the explanation.

Freedom seems to be taking a bit of a beating on these boards lately.

Not as much as Oasis

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Our cruising life began 14 years ago, in 2004. By 2010, the dining experiences had changed greatly on Royal. Gone was the French Service. Gone was the attention to detail by many of the wait staff -- remembering what drink each cruiser would order and have it at their setting when you arrived or how you liked your coffee or tea, night after night. Gone were the chocolate mints on your pillow each night.

 

Things have changed....but so have things for the better (IMO) with more things to do and greater choices of entertainment across the cruise line. Some ships offer a Broadway show that you can enjoy, or waterslides. It is about choices....so for for us, with all the changes that can be looked at as 'I wish these things hadn't changed' to those other changes 'that make it more interesting for us to cruise with Royal' we stay loyal to Royal.

 

What I can say has also changed and not necessarily for the better......cruisers have changed. More rude and nasty cruisers who almost pick arguments with staff over things that the staff member has no control over --- but those people do the same thing at restaurants or other places when they are at home. SAD to say.

We started cruising in 2001. And I have no idea what you mean about "French Service".

The biggest change to me over dining is the fact that there is less waste- the servers are far, far, far less to give you what you didn't ask for just for the sake of doing it. I hate that.

But I don't recall our dining on the Monarch all that spectacular. It was ok, but not great. Since that was my measuring stick, it's been better since the pretty much all the time. IMHO, the biggest complaint about the dining can be traced to people just not liking the options they are giving you. Otherwise, the food has been good- heck, even the beef has gotten to the point that it's been chewable in the past few cruises.

Also, food wise- the midnight waste, I mean buffet was always a classic. But it is so very, very wasteful. I'd far rather then spend money on a licence for a Broadway show than to keep putting food out that nobody eats.

I agree that cruising has changed, but we still fit. And we still have a great time on Royal- good enough to not really consider changing lines. We'll make it to Pinnacle, and we don't live anywhere near a port. And I see that we are not paying that much more for a cabin as we did 10-15 years ago, let alone when we started in 2001. And that price is way better than it was in the 80's.

For those of you who hate it- that's fine with me. The sooner you move on the better. If enough people leave, prices will drop, and we will have a better chance to be top cruiser on a ship. :D:D

I'm right there with you. I'll still dress that way regardless - haven't gotten too lazy to do it. I work for a fortune 500 company (we are also on pretty much every fortune list there is) and I wear slacks and a nice shirt. I'd say that puts me in the top 25% as far as how I dress. That's unfortunate.

I haven't been on Royal in 11 years, and my family that I'm going with on the Symphony haven't been on RC in 16 years, so this is not what I'm wanting to hear. The after dinner drinks were awesome. I hope the cruise experience at its core is still there.

I like to consider myself young, I'm 35, and one of the things we LIKE about RC are the formal nights. That's right, born in the 1980's, and we LIKE to dress up! You are absolutely correct that society has gotten lazy. We think it's nice to have an excuse to dress up now and then and be around others who are as well. Not to mention, it makes for great photo opportunities.

 

We're both business professionals and things have gotten so lax in the corporate world that I've seen people wear clothes to the office that I would deem unacceptable for the RC dining room (if I could enforce a dress code).

We started cruising in 2001. And I have no idea what you mean about "French Service".

 

The biggest change to me over dining is the fact that there is less waste- the servers are far, far, far less to give you what you didn't ask for just for the sake of doing it. I hate that.

 

But I don't recall our dining on the Monarch all that spectacular. It was ok, but not great. Since that was my measuring stick, it's been better since the pretty much all the time. IMHO, the biggest complaint about the dining can be traced to people just not liking the options they are giving you. Otherwise, the food has been good- heck, even the beef has gotten to the point that it's been chewable in the past few cruises.

 

Also, food wise- the midnight waste, I mean buffet was always a classic. But it is so very, very wasteful. I'd far rather then spend money on a licence for a Broadway show than to keep putting food out that nobody eats.

 

I agree that cruising has changed, but we still fit. And we still have a great time on Royal- good enough to not really consider changing lines. We'll make it to Pinnacle, and we don't live anywhere near a port. And I see that we are not paying that much more for a cabin as we did 10-15 years ago, let alone when we started in 2001. And that price is way better than it was in the 80's.

 

For those of you who hate it- that's fine with me. The sooner you move on the better. If enough people leave, prices will drop, and we will have a better chance to be top cruiser on a ship. :D:D

When I mentioned French Service, that is a style of waiter service, when they are wearing white gloves and keep refolding your napkin every time you get up from your chair (if you leave to go to the restroom, for example), constantly changing plates when they bring the next course, taking out the lobster meat from the tail for you or removing the shrimp from the shell for you. It is a very 'labor intensive' type of service, and when they did away with it, were able to reduce the number of wait staff.

I absolutely share your feelings about the wastefulness of the midnight buffet. As a stockholder, I share your feeling that putting that money into the entertainment cost of licensing or developing their own shows, as the example of "Columbus the Musical' which is shown on Harmony are a better spend.

Royal has managed to continue to give us a great vacation and we see no reason to change. It is highly unlikely that we will ever make it to Pinnacle, but we are only a few cruises away from D+....and have enjoyed all the cruising it has taken to get us there.

For all those saying to go to a much higher priced line, not sure that would do it.

I'll let you know.... I'm on Oceania for the first time in 2 weeks in a penthouse suite. The per diem for this exclusive 12 day Tahiti-French Polynesia cruise with all the luxuries of yesteryear, free alcohol, free grats, free specialty, free room service, etc etc. is less than the per diem on Harmony in a GS.

I'll let you know.... I'm on Oceania for the first time in 2 weeks in a penthouse suite. The per diem for this exclusive 12 day Tahiti-French Polynesia cruise with all the luxuries of yesteryear, free alcohol, free grats, free specialty, free room service, etc etc. is less than the per diem on Harmony in a GS.

Not sure what you mean by per diem, isn't that what you are reimbursed by a company?

My point was that the op wanted the service of many years ago without paying for specialty restaurants. While that may be true on Oceania, you will pay way more than a regular room on a main stream line, even if you go to specialty every single night.

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Two quick suggestions. If you’d like to be on a cruise where people dress up more, then cruise in Europe or Middle East. Truth is most North Americans are very casual and Europeans dress better. Also, try to book specialty restaurants, you’ll get better food and service.

Not sure what you mean by per diem, isn't that what you are reimbursed by a company?

 

My point was that the op wanted the service of many years ago without paying for specialty restaurants. While that may be true on Oceania, you will pay way more than a regular room on a main stream line, even if you go to specialty every single night.

 

 

 

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Per diem means what you pay per person per day.

In a penthouse suite on Oceania, My per diem is about $320.... in a GS on Harmony it's about $375 per person.

The luxury all-inclusive line is less expensive for almost the exact same cabin as the main stream line.

The OP is right about the frozen food. On the Rhapsody I ordered the special of the evening - Chicken Kiev. It was frozen solid. It was exactly like the Barber Food chicken Kiev that you can buy at Sam's Club!

A few months later we were staying at the El Dorado Royale. We recognized the head waiter from the cruise where he waited on the tables next to ours. We talked about how bad the food was on RCCL. He said much of it was pre-prepared and just reheated on the ship. And, things like tuna salad and chicken salad came in 5 gallon plastic containers and they just dumped the food into the serving bowls. The resort had wonderful food. They have a huge greenhouse operation and grow the vegetables for all the Karisma resorts on the Riviera Maya on the premises and deliver it fresh daily to each hotel. Everything at the hotel was made from scratch.

We stayed off of RCCL for about 7 years after the frozen chicken episode. We noticed a big improvement when we went back on the Voyager and Mariner, but then after 4 cruises noticed things had gone downhill. We're going to give it another try in May after a 4 year absence after an awful cruise on the NOS.

Not sure what you mean by per diem, isn't that what you are reimbursed by a company?

 

My point was that the op wanted the service of many years ago without paying for specialty restaurants. While that may be true on Oceania, you will pay way more than a regular room on a main stream line, even if you go to specialty every single night.

 

 

 

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Per Diem..... per day cost

I like to consider myself young, I'm 35, and one of the things we LIKE about RC are the formal nights. That's right, born in the 1980's, and we LIKE to dress up! You are absolutely correct that society has gotten lazy. We think it's nice to have an excuse to dress up now and then and be around others who are as well. Not to mention, it makes for great photo opportunities.

 

We're both business professionals and things have gotten so lax in the corporate world that I've seen people wear clothes to the office that I would deem unacceptable for the RC dining room (if I could enforce a dress code).

Why is it "lazy" to not play dress up? After a day around the pool I'm going to shower and shave and I'm going to put on clean clothes, What's "lazy" about a collared shirt and khakis as opposed to suit and tie? I'll never wear a tie again if I don't have to. Why is that "lazy"?

I'll let you know.... I'm on Oceania for the first time in 2 weeks in a penthouse suite. The per diem for this exclusive 12 day Tahiti-French Polynesia cruise with all the luxuries of yesteryear, free alcohol, free grats, free specialty, free room service, etc etc. is less than the per diem on Harmony in a GS.

Considering that there are very FEW Grand Suites on even ships like Harmony, for MOST people the per diem in a penthouse suite on Oceanis would be significantly higher than even a balcony cabin on Harmony.

Your comparison is ludicrous.

Ultimate Dining Package. Lets you dine in specialty all week for one price. For ours it is $168. Much cheaper than the difference to switch to a suite or an expensive line. We don't do it because we are fine with the included options, but if better service and better food is the main gripe (not sure it is), then that might be a great way to get at least closer to what you were missing.

This is an excellent point. Cruise fares are pretty cheap nowadays and the cost to eat in specialty restaurants still makes the total cost a good value. And the food is better than the

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Why is it "lazy" to not play dress up? After a day around the pool I'm going to shower and shave and I'm going to put on clean clothes, What's "lazy" about a collared shirt and khakis as opposed to suit and tie? I'll never wear a tie again if I don't have to. Why is that "lazy"?

It's not. It's an assumption. I work my *** off to go on vacation, especially on a cruise. If someone wants to label me as lazy while I'm on vacay because I'm wearing a nice skirt and blouse to dinner, that's their problem.

It's not. It's an assumption. I work my *** off to go on vacation, especially on a cruise. If someone wants to label me as lazy while I'm on vacay because I'm wearing a nice skirt and blouse to dinner, that's their problem.

Agreed. I don't go in a cruise to impress others. I get cleaned up, and put on nice pressed clothes, but have no want to be sweaty and uncomfortable just for somebody else's view if what others should wear.

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I'll let you know.... I'm on Oceania for the first time in 2 weeks in a penthouse suite. The per diem for this exclusive 12 day Tahiti-French Polynesia cruise with all the luxuries of yesteryear, free alcohol, free grats, free specialty, free room service, etc etc. is less than the per diem on Harmony in a GS.

If you are doing a live review please post a link on the boards here. I’d like to follow your adventure and comparisons.

If you are doing a live review please post a link on the boards here. I’d like to follow your adventure and comparisons.

I would love to see that as well.

This thread boils down to personal preferences, and tastes changing / business adaptability over time. Maybe the OPs taste didn't change, and they feel that things have changed in a different direction than they prefer, but there are plenty of lines out there to still experience the "good ol' days". Go take a Crystal cruise, and you'll be taken back. There is no need to get upset if the surroundings are changing for the worse in your eyes, simply go find surroundings that better match your needs. Same goes for the "kids" that like to dress up... Don't knock others that don't share your beliefs, be your own person and if you long for the days gone by, stop longing and figure out something that matches what you want!

Well this will be my first cruise with Royal carribean in 6yrs I hope to enjoy it. But judging from some of the positive experiences you've had I hope to get the same or better results.

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Considering that there are very FEW Grand Suites on even ships like Harmony, for MOST people the per diem in a penthouse suite on Oceanis would be significantly higher than even a balcony cabin on Harmony.

 

Your comparison is ludicrous.

Ok, so comparing a 350sf/70sf PH on Oceania to a 370sf GS on Harmony is not good enough for you? I sense your head is firmly stuck in the sand and absolutely refusing to look at this objectively.

Let's look at a simple interior then, shall we?

Oceania per diem on my sailing = $240 per person. This is exactly the price I booked at.

Now remember, this is inclusive of everything including alcohol, gratuities, free internet throughout the cruise, specialty dining, room service, you name it

So here's Harmony per diem of the exact same random sailing I picked in 2019 = $131

Comparing apples to apples add the drink package ($60/day), the ultimate dining package ($168/7), gratuities ($14/day), and voom ($10 per day)...

now it's $241.

You're wrong Paulette. If you "want it all" the luxury lines are totally a better value. If you want to pay for and buy absolutely nothing extra, then yes RCL is cheaper in an interior. You get to pick and choose what you want to pay for.

If you are doing a live review please post a link on the boards here. I’d like to follow your adventure and comparisons.

I would love to see that as well.

I'll try, however I figure I'll surely do something after I get back.

I am expecting the world from this sailing so we'll see if it lives up to expectations. From communicating with previous O cruisers they all treat the ship like a big DL/CL, getting together every night to visit and talk about their day just like we do in the DL/CL.

Fyi, Oceania revenue called me 3 weeks ago to upsell me from an interior to a Concierge veranda ($400).... then last week called me again (Revenue again... I asked to confirm who was calling) to upsell again from that veranda to a penthouse (another $500).

I am so damn lucky and super grateful! :)

I would recommend if you want a more personalized experience to try one of Royal's smaller ships. In my opinion, if you are looking to be catered to, you wont find it on the larger ships.

Precisely why we decided to do the Vision in a couple weeks - and we could do 10 days cheaper than 7 on Liberty.

Fingers crossed that the older ship will have older style service, since we are forgoing some of the things we like about the Voyager Class and forward.

OP, having taken three years off you’re like the frog who jumps out of a pot that’s already boiling. The rest of us have been marinating. We’ve noticed a decline in each successive RCCL cruise over the past three years, but the’ve been incremental for us.

I will say that when we went back to Carnival after a similar period of time, we went in thinking “how much worse can it be than when we stopped”. We were pleasantly surprised, they were actually better than three years previous and we’ve sailed them twice since and each experience was a little better.

Still much prefer RCCL’s ships and shows, but the two lines appear to be on opposite trajectories at this point.

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