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Woolloomooloo hullabaloo: Locals don't want cruise liners at Garden Island


CroNich
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In the autumn 2011 edition of Shipping Australia Limited,

http://www.shippingaustralia.com.au/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/ShippingAut2011.pdf

Gavin Smith from RCCL talks about having a berth for the cruise ships at Port Botany. He writes that Sydney Harbour be used for visiting ships, whilst the local ships operate out of Port Botany.

 

I agree with what he says 100%

With the amount of new container terminals at Port Botany I am sure there could be room for one or two cruise terminals, however it's got to do with money, if the government would invest properly it could actually be worthwhile and it's not like Botany is an ugly Bay it's just it's very industrial but like he says for seasonal or year round cruises it's not really about Sydney Harbour (although it's a nice touch) it's about the cruise itself so I think it could work, plus it's close to the airport as well

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"Carnival Australia boss Ann Sherry has revealed she expects a positive outcome for the cruise industry following the review into the possible shared use of Garden Island.

But she warned that the challenge facing the cruise sector is not winning approval for shared use of the naval base but actually making the arrangement work.

Speaking at the Carnival Australia Partnership Summit aboard Princess Cruises’ Dawn Princess, Sherry said she was expecting the review, conducted by Dr Allan Hawke, to spell good news for cruise lines.

A report will be submitted to defence minister Steven Smith early in the new year.

“We are expecting them to say yes you can share. The next phase is how do you make it work,” she said. “There has been a huge amount of support and a lot of submissions.”

Sherry added that the presence of nine ships in Sydney Harbour this year was an added incentive to push approval of the scheme through.

She ruled out the possibility of a solution in Botany Bay, saying it was a last resort in case Garden Island fell through.

“Nobody is advocating use of Botany Bay,” she declared, a view which may surprise Royal Caribbean which is keen to explore the prospect of Port Botany catering for its liners.

The visual effect of sailing past the Harbour Bridge and Opera House was a major drawcard for cruisers that would be overlooked by such a proposal, Sherry said.

“That's one of the reasons that Newcastle didn’t go as well as we thought,” she said. “Customers were willing to drive the extra couple of hours to have the opportunity to sail through the bridge.”

Meanwhile, she revealed that she had “somewhere in mind” for a new Brisbane facility closer to the airport, but declined to disclose further details."

 

Do you think the RAN would just be able to relocate there Canberra Class Ships up north during the November-April season? Because during the winter months there would not be any use for the cruise terminal at Garden Island, and they can use it then

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I do not think the RAN will be happy sharing if they have to move their ships.

 

The Garden Island wharfs are not long enough to share. When the Canberra class arrives they can only dock where the QM2 docks. The wharfs are not straight. There is no room at Garden Island as the wharfs are far too short to support cruise ships and warships.

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I do not think the RAN will be happy sharing if they have to move their ships.

 

The Garden Island wharfs are not long enough to share. When the Canberra class arrives they can only dock where the QM2 docks. The wharfs are not straight. There is no room at Garden Island as the wharfs are far too short to support cruise ships and warships.

 

No room????

Does not look like that to me...

 

2353735690102786229S600x600Q85.jpg

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Not sure what you mean David:confused: Those berths look fairly "full" to me.

 

Ann Sheery might be very positive -- but I will be VERY VERY surprised if.......

 

Barry

Edited by bazzaw
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No room????

Does not look like that to me...

 

2353735690102786229S600x600Q85.jpg

 

No there is no room after the FFG's berthed right in front of QM2, the warf turns and changes angle. The FFG's are 138m long and the FFH's about 118m long. Getting in closer the depths are not that great and with the accommodation on the other side space is limited getting a cruise ship further in.

 

Where the QM2 is right now is the only place a cruise ship can dock.

 

I believe the Canberra class will be too big for the cruiser wharf and other wharfs near the Captain Cook drydock. With all the ships the RAN has it is too small.

 

Plus there is the shore power connections to consider when the RAN ships berth. They need priority access.

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Have a look at the satellite view of garden Island here

 

Once upon a time :) - Garden Island was indeed an island - you can see the original island with the trees showing at the very northern part of what we now call "Garden Island" . Over the past couple of hundred years, the island was joined to the mainland to create a dockyard. When I was in the navy myself, there was no such thing as a "Fleet base" ( on the western side of Garden Island). The Navy Fleet used to berth inside the Dockyard itself - however with the privatisation of the Dockyard in the late 80's , the powers -to-be decided to separate the two activities (refitting/maintenance of Navy ships and normal Naval weekly "running") and the Fleet Base was built. You can see from the pic what Sutho has been saying about these individual berths being quite small -- big enough for most naval ships , but not very suitable for large cruiseships. On the eastern side of GI, there are no wharves at all.

 

BTW - the Navy ships that you can see in that pic are around only 130 metres long - Vista class ships are almost 300 metres - Voyager of the Seas Azura and QM2 are even longer. The wharf at the OPT is only 220 metres long.

 

Personally I can see no place anywhere in Sydney Harbour that would be acceptable to Sydneysiders as an additional cruise terminal, east of the bridge. Nor can I imagine the Federal Authorities agreeing to complicate Naval operations out of the Fleet base.

 

Barry

Edited by bazzaw
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  • 5 years later...

Hi all

Well it is now 2017 and the debate is still going on about where to berth the oversupply of cruise ships on Sydney Harbour and no closer to solving it.

Someone in this post mentioned about putting the cruise ships at the old HMAS Platypus dock and I think that has some merit but would probably need dredging to accommodate the large ships then you will no doubt get resistance from residence in that area about causing congestion in the area. Sydney needs Tourist money to help local businesses and increase jobs.

Another idea is maybe a floating dock that can easily be put into place when a ship is expected in port, bit like what they do when the International boat show is on in Darling Harbour but a much bigger scale then remove when not in use and use charter boats to ferry the passengers to Circular Quay or pick up passengers for their booked tours.

Maybe a good place to put the floating dock would be in that area between Robertson Light house and Bradleys head or around the corner at Port Jackson Bay as these areas are out of the way of the shipping lanes. May need dredging to fit the ships. I am pretty sure that the HMAS Melbourne was anchored in that area between Roberson Light house and Bradleys Head but more near the Bradlys Head side and the Aircraft Carrier Melbourne had a draft of around 25ft, so is possible.

Edited by ccsclean21
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I do not think the RAN will be happy sharing if they have to move their ships.

 

The Garden Island wharfs are not long enough to share. When the Canberra class arrives they can only dock where the QM2 docks. The wharfs are not straight. There is no room at Garden Island as the wharfs are far too short to support cruise ships and warships.

 

Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.:halo:

 

As for QM2, when we were on her in March, Sydney to HK, she berthed at the Overseas Passenger Terminal - Circular, bit of overhang, but all the large ships overhang a bit there, no dramas, they just reverse in to their berth.

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Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.:halo:

 

As for QM2, when we were on her in March, Sydney to HK, she berthed at the Overseas Passenger Terminal - Circular, bit of overhang, but all the large ships overhang a bit there, no dramas, they just reverse in to their berth.

I agree with your suggestions, but I don't suppose our opinions will count for much. :D

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Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.:halo:

.

 

Why is there a need to bring more money into Sydney Uncle Les? Pretty sure there is plenty of it there already the residents stare at it everyday held within their 4 walls............. Maybe we should share the love and move the money to other areas like Newcastle or Jervis Bay? :eek:

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Why is there a need to bring more money into Sydney Uncle Les? Pretty sure there is plenty of it there already the residents stare at it everyday held within their 4 walls............. Maybe we should share the love and move the money to other areas like Newcastle or Jervis Bay? :eek:

 

Or send them to Port Kembla, beautiful scenic views of the Steelworks and they can breathe in the polluting smoke. The Illawarra needs the tourist dollar too. A few cruise ships have actually called into Port Kembla.:rolleyes: Don't know why, I lived in the 'Gong back in the 1970's. The pollution probably caused my lung problems.:evilsmile:

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One problem is they never saw it coming.

 

To a degree that’s understandable as cruising was once the domain of the “well to do”.

 

By the time the powers to be saw the industry would inject huge money into the economy the best spots for a dock were all gone.

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Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.:halo:

 

Given Garden Island is used by the Navy, part of the Defence department of Australia, it is already held by the people. :)

 

If it's sold off for cruise access, then it will most likely not be any more held by the people...

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By the time the powers to be saw the industry would inject huge money into the economy the best spots for a dock were all gone.

 

I'm still sceptical that "huge money" does come in from cruises.

 

It's certainly profitable for the operators so you can see why they try to sell that argument.

 

But every cruise I'm on the pax barely spend anything ashore, often not wanting to buy any souvenirs at all, looking for free tours/transport, and often eating mostly onboard as well. Of course, there's a small amount of spending ashore for incidentals, but I can't see how the big numbers they claim are being generated. Especially for domestic oriented cruises; those getting international visitors usually get some more spending, but the stats on Australian cruises show how much of it is Australian traffic, where shore spending is minimised.

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The income is not just derived from passenger expenditure, especially at turnaround ports.

 

Port of Sydney charges $35 per passenger (capacity), plus all sorts of other fees like pilots etc.

 

Add to that all the expenditure in food, drinks and other provisions, fuel oil, and whatever else is put onboard.

 

As we see on this board, some of the tourist expenditure is not the day tripping, it is the extra days either side of a cruise.

 

And of course, the booming pie business.

 

https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/media/2532/port-authority-schedule-of-port-charges-fy1718_-pass-site-occ_syd-harbour_final.pdf

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Sydney is nearly always a turn-around port, not just a port day on a cruise. From reading this forum, many Australian passengers fly into Sydney the day before. They then have to pay for a night's accommodation and meals even if they don't do any or much sightseeing before the cruise. They also have to have transport to and from the ship. All this helps create jobs.

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The income is not just derived from passenger expenditure, especially at turnaround ports.

 

Port of Sydney charges $35 per passenger (capacity), plus all sorts of other fees like pilots etc.

 

Add to that all the expenditure in food, drinks and other provisions, fuel oil, and whatever else is put onboard.

 

As we see on this board, some of the tourist expenditure is not the day tripping, it is the extra days either side of a cruise.

 

And of course, the booming pie business.

 

https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/media/2532/port-authority-schedule-of-port-charges-fy1718_-pass-site-occ_syd-harbour_final.pdf

 

 

Yes mustn’t forget the pie sales, wonder of they can dock down at the ‘loo or would lawsie and rusty get upset.

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Given Garden Island is used by the Navy, part of the Defence department of Australia, it is already held by the people. :)

 

If it's sold off for cruise access, then it will most likely not be any more held by the people...

 

But the cruise ships won't take up all of Garden Island. I have been inside it, it is big. Even with a cruise terminal there, a nice foreshore park could be established for the 'people.':hearteyes:

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