What's going on with P&O UK with TIPPING

For the work they do, they deserve it and more, shows just how the cruise lies are screwing the employees and the tax office.

Does YOUR employer allow you to discuss your salary? Listen, if these folks weren't making sufficient money, they would find another job. They are not "slave labor"....

 

If you pay the suggested tips, you've done your duty. It's what the staff agrees to.

In my country (Denmark) it’s a right by law to discuss your salary. It may be the same in other countries

Cruise LIES.Was that a freudian slip Mick,lol.

N is missing but I suppose it fits.:D

In my country (Denmark) it’s a right by law to discuss your salary. It may be the same in other countries

In Australia, a condition of an employment contract most often (not always) stipulate that discussion of salary or contract conditions may result in termination of employment. This is generally only applicable to private industry though.

A previous post on tipping was v informative. Explained that the crew pay income taxes to their home country on wages, but not on tips. Tips are not taxable income in many of the countries crew members call home.

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A previous post on tipping was v informative. Explained that the crew pay income taxes to their home country on wages, but not on tips. Tips are not taxable income in many of the countries crew members call home.

It depends on the tax legislation in the country the staff are from.

If they were from the UK (I know the waiters and stewards are not, but as an example), then is likely none of their wages would be taxable, whether they were wages or tips as they are not resident for tax purposes as they are at sea.

However I understand that in the Philippines, which is where many of the waiters and stewards are from, tax is levied on all sources of income irrespective of whether it is wages or tips and whether they are at sea.

The real reason for the gratuities is to advertise the cruise for a lower cost than it really is.

In my country (Denmark) it’s a right by law to discuss your salary. It may be the same in other countries

While this may be the case, surely it is not compulsory to be forced to divulge every detail to any Tom, Dick or Harry that asks you for the information in Denmark.

Regards John

While this may be the case, surely it is not compulsory to be forced to divulge every detail to any Tom, Dick or Harry that asks you for the information in Denmark.

 

Regards John

Very true,i never ask or have been asked and prefer it that way.

I suppose if someone was persistent i would either say i was a football manager on £1 million a year or i was bankrupt.

In Australia, a condition of an employment contract most often (not always) stipulate that discussion of salary or contract conditions may result in termination of employment. This is generally only applicable to private industry though.

Such a contract would be invalid here.

While this may be the case, surely it is not compulsory to be forced to divulge every detail to any Tom, Dick or Harry that asks you for the information in Denmark.

Definetely not, but the right to do so can not be revoked with the present legislation.

This is why they should either be compulsory or included in the cruise fare because i agree it is not fair that some tightwads can shaft the crew and fellow honourable passengers.

Lets be honest the only people shafting the crew are the cruise lines by not paying a decent wage in the first place and encouraging cruisers to pay staff wages by tipping so increaing company profits and earning senior management an annual wage packet of £100,000s plus bonuses. Also dont forget the Captains of all Carnival plc ships are responsible for the whole ship including onboard sales and profits and no doubt the higher the profit the ship makes the more bonus he gets. Recently on a Princess cruise the Captain at his talk said he was more a Chief Executive and is as much responsible for busines side of the ship i.e. shop sales, drink sales and excursions as much as the seamanship side of cruising.

In my country (Denmark) it’s a right by law to discuss your salary. It may be the same in other countries

In the UK staff may discuss salary with other staff (this promotes equality) but employers can stop discussions with customers or competitors.

Denmark is more civilianised in many ways and extremely Hygge.

Lets be honest the only people shafting the crew are the cruise lines by not paying a decent wage in the first place and encouraging cruisers to pay staff wages by tipping so increaing company profits and earning senior management an annual wage packet of £100,000s plus bonuses. Also dont forget the Captains of all Carnival plc ships are responsible for the whole ship including onboard sales and profits and no doubt the higher the profit the ship makes the more bonus he gets. Recently on a Princess cruise the Captain at his talk said he was more a Chief Executive and is as much responsible for busines side of the ship i.e. shop sales, drink sales and excursions as much as the seamanship side of cruising.

Excellent comments.

Such a contract would be invalid here.

Personally I don't like it, and think it should be stopped but I can also understand why an employer doesn't want their employees knowing that one is getting more than the other.

extremely Hygge.

You get lots of points on that one!!!

You get lots of points on that one!!!

Love Denmark, just back from Jul there with my goose from Drobak. Got some amazing Hygge candles from Royal Copenhagen.

We don't have the word for it here is Scotand but we do have Hygge - lights, fires, hot chocolate, skibberlabskovs is called Stovies here! We even get the 16 hours of dark in the winter, you would love it here.

Lets be honest the only people shafting the crew are the cruise lines by not paying a decent wage in the first place and encouraging cruisers to pay staff wages by tipping so increaing company profits and earning senior management an annual wage packet of £100,000s plus bonuses. Also dont forget the Captains of all Carnival plc ships are responsible for the whole ship including onboard sales and profits and no doubt the higher the profit the ship makes the more bonus he gets. Recently on a Princess cruise the Captain at his talk said he was more a Chief Executive and is as much responsible for busines side of the ship i.e. shop sales, drink sales and excursions as much as the seamanship side of cruising.

Excellent comments.

I think I might be in disagreement with you two honourable gentlemen if as some have said there is tax avoidance involved. If by preferring to have the majority of their wages paid as non taxable tips, then surely the staff are equally as culpable as the management.

Whilst I disagree with tax avoidance in principle, I don't blame anyone for using these anomalies where Govts. tax rules allow them to exist.

And yes I also accept that it probably also allows cruise lines to benefit from paying their staff at a lower level than would be needed if the staff had to pay the full amount of tax.

Since none of us know the full story then speculation, even mine, is a bit futile, but I doubt that cruise lines are wholly to blame for this situation, however you can hardly blame them for allowing it to continue if it lowers their overall wage bill, and in this I am assuming that passengers would still end up paying at least the same amount even if tips were abolished.

I think I might be in disagreement with you two honourable gentlemen if as some have said there is tax avoidance involved. If by preferring to have the majority of their wages paid as non taxable tips, then surely the staff are equally as culpable as the management.

Whilst I disagree with tax avoidance in principle, I don't blame anyone for using these anomalies where Govts. tax rules allow them to exist.

And yes I also accept that it probably also allows cruise lines to benefit from paying their staff at a lower level than would be needed if the staff had to pay the full amount of tax.

Since none of us know the full story then speculation, even mine, is a bit futile, but I doubt that cruise lines are wholly to blame for this situation, however you can hardly blame them for allowing it to continue if it lowers their overall wage bill, and in this I am assuming that passengers would still end up paying at least the same amount even if tips were abolished.

I think that is a dangerous argument.

If it is acceptable for the cruise company and their employees to enter into arrangements that will reduce their wages or tax bills, are they in any position to complain if customers don't play along and use it as an opportunity to reduce their cruise bill by not paying the optional charge.

I think that is a dangerous argument.

 

If it is acceptable for the cruise company and their employees to enter into arrangements that will reduce their wages or tax bills, are they in any position to complain if customers don't play along and use it as an opportunity to reduce their cruise bill by not paying the optional charge.

Interesting thought however I suspect that those who don't tip at all don't go into this level of detail, they just don't tip (which is their prerogative until such times as the additional cost is unavoidable eg added to the cost upfront)

Interesting thought however I suspect that those who don't tip at all don't go into this level of detail, they just don't tip (which is their prerogative until such times as the additional cost is unavoidable eg added to the cost upfront)

After reading several tipping threads certain people have decided beforehand that they won't tip regardless of the service they receive.

I think that is a dangerous argument.

 

If it is acceptable for the cruise company and their employees to enter into arrangements that will reduce their wages or tax bills, are they in any position to complain if customers don't play along and use it as an opportunity to reduce their cruise bill by not paying the optional charge.

Let's be clear I believe the system has slowly developed over many years going back to the pre jet travel days when cruising, or just crossing the Atlantic, was the domain of the affluent and tipping a way of life, and so not any deliberate ploy to avoid tax, even though this might be the result.

As Eglesbrech says, I doubt that anyone not tipping would put my theory forward as their reason for not doing so. However the apparent increase in non tippers has made me consider whether I should join them until such time as P&O add tips onto the price. But my conscience will not allow me to punish the staff by reducing the tip element of their wages, even it might speed up the process of having tips included in the price.

I must admit on the last P&O cruise on Azura we cancelled auto tips and went back to envelopes. On our previous cruise on Britannia where we had auto tipped we were not that happy with the service we received.

We were happier with the envelopes as it allowed us to tip as we felt commensurate with the service we received which on Azura was very good. We will continue with using this system in the future and quite frankly we don't need to know what happens to the money once we have given it over to the individuals.

The other reason we have stopped autotipping is that there is a chance that P&O are keeping the money if the staff members scores are not high enough which on our last Britannia cruise the ones we had probably were not. If this is the case what happens to the money ?

Each to their own - we all have a choice !!

I must admit on the last P&O cruise on Azura we cancelled auto tips and went back to envelopes. On our previous cruise on Britannia where we had auto tipped we were not that happy with the service we received.

We were happier with the envelopes as it allowed us to tip as we felt commensurate with the service we received which on Azura was very good. We will continue with using this system in the future and quite frankly we don't need to know what happens to the money once we have given it over to the individuals.

The other reason we have stopped autotipping is that there is a chance that P&O are keeping the money if the staff members scores are not high enough which on our last Britannia cruise the ones we had probably were not. If this is the case what happens to the money ?

 

Each to their own - we all have a choice !!

As a matter of interest, if you are on Freedom Dining, with different waiters each night, how do you tip them? Similarly, if you get good service in the buffet, how do you tip the staff there?

As a matter of interest, if you are on Freedom Dining, with different waiters each night, how do you tip them? Similarly, if you get good service in the buffet, how do you tip the staff there?

Good point so thats why leaving the autogratuity in place is the easiest way.

As a matter of interest, if you are on Freedom Dining, with different waiters each night, how do you tip them? Similarly, if you get good service in the buffet, how do you tip the staff there?

Don't do Freedom Dining and only rarely the buffet.