Happy to see this article about airplane seating; recent Spirit experience

http://time.com/5404089/congress-airlines-seats-shrinking-legroom/

I was on connecting Spirit Airline flights late last week, and made the mistake of booking the exit row for us. The tray tables in the arm rests take a good additional 1+ inch from the seat width, and I still have bruises on my rear end from just trying to sit in that seat. Got switched to one of their regular economy seats, and did just fine. As a matter of fact, I had plenty of legroom. My husband was at the end of the exit row and his shoulders did not fit because of the curve of the side wall of the plane. He would have had to sit sideways the whole flight. We switched his seat, too.

For the connecting flight I asked at the podium to have our seats changed, explaining why. She put us in Row 3, which has EXACTLY the same type of seats!!! The crew got us in regular economy seats for that flight, too.

I actually have learned how to fly Spirit now for travel between MI and CA:

- join the $9 fare club and get your seat fees reduced

- spend money on the flight and the seats

- if you sit in Row 1 (Big Front Seat), you MUST use the overhead bin for your personal item

- get one of these for your personal item if you don't sit in Row 1; it holds an amazing amount of stuff: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B015DC1X00/ref=twister_B015DBZSL6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

- eat before you get on the plane, or take food with you if it's a long flight

We have found a better solution to dealing with Spirit. We AVOID the airline like the plague!

Hank

We have found a better solution to dealing with Spirit. We AVOID the airline like the plague!

 

Hank

Absolutely agree.

Before folks start cheering for government intervention, perhaps another viewpoint might be useful.

LINK HERE.

Before folks start cheering for government intervention, perhaps another viewpoint might be useful.

 

LINK HERE.

There has also been some rumblings about future aircraft configurations with "Standing" seats which are not even seats but a place to lean. As one with long legs I might even find that preferable to 29-30 inch pitch seats. We agree with that article when it comes to the new "thin" seats that eliminate much of the padding.

But the article you post ignores an issue being raised by some airline passenger advocacy groups. They question whether tight pitch seats will inhibit fast evacuation in a real emergency. Although the airlines do have to demonstrate they can safety evacuate a full plane in the allotted time, the volunteers are often not anything like many of the real folks (often king size) who fly in the real world.

Hank

We have found a better solution to dealing with Spirit. We AVOID the airline like the plague!

 

Hank

Yes, but they have a great, inexpensive nonstop to OAK.

Yes, but they have a great, inexpensive nonstop to OAK.

And we all know price is the ONLY criteria.

I have an idea. Let’s have different airlines with different style planes and seats and let the consumer decide/chose.

We have that already and obviously many consumers do not wish to pay more for a better seat. They are even willing to pick an even worse seat for less money.

OK with me, but you will never find me on a Spirit airlines plane again,

Before folks start cheering for government intervention, perhaps another viewpoint might be useful.

 

LINK HERE.

Looking at an airline trade organization website, Airlines for America http://airlines.org/

it seems as though they were supportive of the overall bill. I wonder if they have commented separately about the seating issue? I couldn't find anything yet...

But the article you post ignores an issue being raised by some airline passenger advocacy groups. They question whether tight pitch seats will inhibit fast evacuation in a real emergency. Although the airlines do have to demonstrate they can safety evacuate a full plane in the allotted time, the volunteers are often not anything like many of the real folks (often king size) who fly in the real world.

In real world accidents and incidents, any particular set time has no direct correlation to survivability. No design will ever be good enough to guarantee getting everyone out of every survivable accident. In many survivable accidents, people are going to die however quickly the aircraft can be evacuated. In many other survivable accidents, everyone's survival is assured no matter how long it takes to evacuate the aircraft. For real world performance, the best that you can say is that the faster everyone is out, the more likely it is that any individual passenger will survive.

So the standardised certification requirement is that the test article using test volunteers must be capable of being evacuated in a set time. If it can, then the design is considered good enough for real world use with real world people, with all the variability that involves (both for and against survivability). If the certification standard is not good enough, that standard is what needs to be changed. But the pressure groups raise this woolly undefinable argument about the real world because they know that they do not have any basis for challenging the certification standard.

And we all know price is the ONLY criteria.

I found that the total cost of the air, Big Front Seat fee, and the rolling under-seat personal item bag, DOES meet my criteria for a comfortable flight. The seat is quite comfortable, and I don't find the regular economy seats uncomfortable, either.

I take my Bose headphones on all flights, and I download a few Amazon Prime movies or TV series on my Samsung notebook, both of which fit in the bag with about 4-5 days clothes. I find the crew to be very pleasant, too.

It's an economical way to fly back and forth between our two sons' locations. My husband, who dislikes flying, agreed with me after he did the nonstop, too.

I have an idea. Let’s have different airlines with different style planes and seats and let the consumer decide/chose.

 

We have that already and obviously many consumers do not wish to pay more for a better seat. They are even willing to pick an even worse seat for less money.

 

OK with me, but you will never find me on a Spirit airlines plane again,

Actually, I fly in the BFS and gladly pay the fee. The $9 fare club gives me a discount, and the discounts end up making that annual cost worth while, too.

I'm one of those people who has had a couple of good experiences on Spirit. They'll never be my #1 choice, and I wouldn't take them on a time-sensitive trip where a delay ruins the rest of the trip, but in my case they were perfect - going on a guys trip to Vegas for a weekend, no luggage or even carry-on, cheap Big Front Seat access, no need to eat or drink on the plane...they were great, cheap, extremely friendly crews, and 30 minutes early each direction.

We have found a better solution to dealing with Spirit. We AVOID the airline like the plague!

 

Hank

That is our method of dealing with them:p

That is our method of dealing with them:p

There's a lot of negative news about airlines these days, but I like to think of it this way - there are never, ever been such a wide selection for travelers to choose from in the history of aviation.

Want the absolute cheapest ticket and don't mind being uncomfortable to get it? You can get it!

Want something a bit better than economy but don't have the money for business class? You can get it!

Want a literal multi-room suite in an A380 with a personal butler? You can get it!

The multitude of choices, both in the US and around the world, really is astonishing.

Those pressure groups (deliberately) misunderstand something quite fundamental: It is not - and it cannot be - a certification requirement that a real world aircraft with real world passengers must be capable of being evacuated in a set time. It is simply not possible to set up a standardised test for that.

 

In real world accidents and incidents, any particular set time has no direct correlation to survivability. No design will ever be good enough to guarantee getting everyone out of every survivable accident. In many survivable accidents, people are going to die however quickly the aircraft can be evacuated. In many other survivable accidents, everyone's survival is assured no matter how long it takes to evacuate the aircraft. For real world performance, the best that you can say is that the faster everyone is out, the more likely it is that any individual passenger will survive.

 

So the standardised certification requirement is that the test article using test volunteers must be capable of being evacuated in a set time. If it can, then the design is considered good enough for real world use with real world people, with all the variability that involves (both for and against survivability). If the certification standard is not good enough, that standard is what needs to be changed. But the pressure groups raise this woolly undefinable argument about the real world because they know that they do not have any basis for challenging the certification standard.

I'll go you one better: How fast a plane full of passengers can deplane in an emergency. I had a conversation with a flight attendant with 25 years of service who told me that they were too assure ( as per ADA law) all the wheelchair passengers (regardless of how many were on board) that there would be enough help to CARRY all safely off the plane :eek:.Can yo imagine trying to round up enough panic striken passengers who are trying to save theirs and family's lives to say, 'Sure, I'll be glad to help carry someone off this burning OR sinking aircraft' ? Heck, MOST people almost knock you down, just to get off when the front door of the plane opens ! But that's our elected congress folks ! THEY fly on chartered private jets !

Mac

I'll go you one better: How fast a plane full of passengers can deplane in an emergency. I had a conversation with a flight attendant with 25 years of service who told me that they were too assure ( as per ADA law) all the wheelchair passengers (regardless of how many were on board) that there would be enough help to CARRY all safely off the plane :eek:.Can yo imagine trying to round up enough panic striken passengers who are trying to save theirs and family's lives to say, 'Sure, I'll be glad to help carry someone off this burning OR sinking aircraft' ? Heck, MOST people almost knock you down, just to get off when the front door of the plane opens ! But that's our elected congress folks ! THEY fly on chartered private jets !

 

Mac

It's off topic, but I think you have a misunderstanding about how a LOT of congressmen and women travel. I fly to DC very frequently from various parts of the country, and it's incredibly common to see governors, senators, and representatives on my flight. Recently, I shared the cabin with one of each on the same flight - a sitting governor, a sitting representative, and a sitting senator.

It's off topic, but I think you have a misunderstanding about how a LOT of congressmen and women travel. I fly to DC very frequently from various parts of the country, and it's incredibly common to see governors, senators, and representatives on my flight. Recently, I shared the cabin with one of each on the same flight - a sitting governor, a sitting representative, and a sitting senator.

At least they didn't have to "stand" during the flight :D

At least they didn't have to "stand" during the flight :D

There was a standing Cabinet member, though.

I'm one of those people who has had a couple of good experiences on Spirit. They'll never be my #1 choice, and I wouldn't take them on a time-sensitive trip where a delay ruins the rest of the trip, but in my case they were perfect - going on a guys trip to Vegas for a weekend, no luggage or even carry-on, cheap Big Front Seat access, no need to eat or drink on the plane...they were great, cheap, extremely friendly crews, and 30 minutes early each direction.

This has been my experience, too, and I even found I can tolerate the regular economy seats, as long as I have my Bose headphones and a few movies to watch!

However, their customer service is sloppy. The flight I mentioned above where the "seat tango" happened, the seat fees were refunded at my request. I was told they would credit card xxxx, so I watched that card. No credit. Called them today, and played 20 questions with them to "guess" which card had the credit. I finally "guessed" the correct card ending in "yyyy". Geesh.