Jason Collins & cruises.....

Bravo to Jason Collins for coming out & being the first to come out in a major sport as an active player.

He took a risk & so must us all.......why go to Jamaica & other anti gay ports, why hold Carnivore stock or go on its cruise lines when they attempt to ban Drag dressing on a cruise w/ Drag reviews - Carnivore also took a risk - to control others wrongfully so.

There are plenty of lines that support all people...so lets take the high road..for one & all....

Bravo to Jason Collins for coming out & being the first to come out in a major sport as an active player.

Taking nothing away from Mr. Collins, perhaps you've forgotten about Martina Navratilova and Billie Jean King....who only won about 482 major tennis championships between them after they came out....

Taking nothing away from Mr. Collins, perhaps you've forgotten about Martina Navratilova and Billie Jean King....who only won about 482 major tennis championships between them after they came out....

Yes, sadly - as usual - female athletes are not considered at the same level of importance as male athletes. Billy Jean and Martina were way out in front of the guys.

I am just confused as to what the OP's post has to do with Carnival, or cruising! :confused:

Matina wasnt OUT and either was Greg Louganis thats the diffrence

Matina wasnt OUT and either was Greg Louganis thats the diffrence

Martina came out in 1981! She was a champion and active player for many years after that. :rolleyes:

I am just confused as to what the OP's post has to do with Carnival, or cruising! :confused:

Grasping for straws.

Well...to get back to OP's point about Carnival, I have always found them very gay-friendly, have met lots of other gay folk on their ships, maybe their FOD/LGBT gatherings aren't well attended but at least the cruise directors go to the trouble of scheduling them, usually every day, whether or not the passengers actually show up.

As for the drag cruise...heck, if it matters that much to you, bring your drag, wear it, and see if anyone tries to stop you! I agree that Jamaica is very hostile toward gay folk, but if you're gonna boycott every line that goes there, you're not gonna be taking many cruises - they all go there. Just stay on the ship.

This is kind of far down my list of Things To Worry About....

I have found that certain lines are most accomodating than others - but I believe all you need is one instance of prejudice to feed the fire - in this case it was the double standard regarding the drag cruise. I'd like to see some of these lines have ads w/ gay couples for instance. - A risk for sure but in this day & age I think well worth it.

And what makes Jason Collins different is that he is the first ACTIVE player in the NBA to come out. Its the difference betweenn coming out when you are employed & when you retire. Bravo to those other athletes....but to live life as oneself every day is a right everyone should enjoy - whether at sea or at home.

I live a very main stream life here in NYC - worked corporate all my life - dated every nationalty on the planet & have a Latin husband.....I call it all well rounded...and so for Jason Collins - his risk taking is our gain....put yourself in others shoes - whether onboard a ship or not.

Its good to hear that you have found Carnivore gay friendly and you enjoy your cruises...we all have our own comfort zone.

Well...to get back to OP's point about Carnival, I have always found them very gay-friendly, have met lots of other gay folk on their ships, maybe their FOD/LGBT gatherings aren't well attended but at least the cruise directors go to the trouble of scheduling them, usually every day, whether or not the passengers actually show up.

 

As for the drag cruise...heck, if it matters that much to you, bring your drag, wear it, and see if anyone tries to stop you! I agree that Jamaica is very hostile toward gay folk, but if you're gonna boycott every line that goes there, you're not gonna be taking many cruises - they all go there. Just stay on the ship.

 

This is kind of far down my list of Things To Worry About....

I have found that certain lines are most accomodating than others - but I believe all you need is one instance of prejudice to feed the fire - in this case it was the double standard regarding the drag cruise. I'd like to see some of these lines have ads w/ gay couples for instance. - A risk for sure but in this day & age I think well worth it.

 

And what makes Jason Collins different is that he is the first ACTIVE player in the NBA to come out. Its the difference betweenn coming out when you are employed & when you retire. Bravo to those other athletes....but to live life as oneself every day is a right everyone should enjoy - whether at sea or at home.

 

I live a very main stream life here in NYC - worked corporate all my life - dated every nationalty on the planet & have a Latin husband.....I call it all well rounded...and so for Jason Collins - his risk taking is our gain....put yourself in others shoes - whether onboard a ship or not.

 

Its good to hear that you have found Carnivore gay friendly and you enjoy your cruises...we all have our own comfort zone.

Rotterdam - I hate to inform you -- Jason Collins is at the end of his career after 12 years in the pros. He has been released and has yet to be picked up by another team for next year, so at this point he has little to worry about in his career.

As for wearing drag on a cruise ship - unless you are going on a gay cruise (and even then I would have to think twice about it) - it does not give IMHO the correct impression of a gay man. It is one thing to be in a bar with our own friends in drag - it is another to be out there in the mainstream. It just perpetuates many of the strereotypes - I guess we are just more conservative in our thinking.

On a funny note - we were talking with friends years ago and they were discussing "Dress up night" (aka formal night) and I said we love to wear our tuxes and they said "oh no -- I meant drag -- we roared with laughter - I think me and my husband of 29 years will stick to our tuxes/dinner jackets for mainstream cruises...:)

After 25 cruises - people know we are a gay couple (incl. many of the staff that we have travelled with on mulitiple cruises) and we do not have to push someones head into the ground or shout from the rooftops.

As for Carnival - we do not travel the line, as that is not our demographic or crowd. We generally stick to Celebrity or Princess. We were on NCL once (never again for a variety of reasons). You do find your comfort zone. On the other hand, we do love our Carnival Shareholder Onboard Credits that you can use on any of their lines. If you get lemons - make lemonade.

I wish everyone a great weekend and happy sailing...:)

Rotterdam - I hate to inform you -- Jason Collins is at the end of his career after 12 years in the pros. He has been released and has yet to be picked up by another team for next year, so at this point he has little to worry about in his career.

 

As for wearing drag on a cruise ship - unless you are going on a gay cruise (and even then I would have to think twice about it) - it does not give IMHO the correct impression of a gay man. It is one thing to be in a bar with our own friends in drag - it is another to be out there in the mainstream. It just perpetuates many of the strereotypes - I guess we are just more conservative in our thinking.

 

On a funny note - we were talking with friends years ago and they were discussing "Dress up night" (aka formal night) and I said we love to wear our tuxes and they said "oh no -- I meant drag -- we roared with laughter - I think me and my husband of 29 years will stick to our tuxes/dinner jackets for mainstream cruises...:)

 

After 25 cruises - people know we are a gay couple (incl. many of the staff that we have travelled with on mulitiple cruises) and we do not have to push someones head into the ground or shout from the rooftops.

 

As for Carnival - we do not travel the line, as that is not our demographic or crowd. We generally stick to Celebrity or Princess. We were on NCL once (never again for a variety of reasons). You do find your comfort zone. On the other hand, we do love our Carnival Shareholder Onboard Credits that you can use on any of their lines. If you get lemons - make lemonade.

 

I wish everyone a great weekend and happy sailing...:)

Not completely true about Jason Collins. The free agent signing period hasn't started because the playoffs are still going on. Being a free agent he doesn't even have the opportunity to sign with another team yet. So...he is putting a bit at risk that someone may take this into consideration when the period does open up. It could work for...or against. I guess we will find out.

But.....he is definitely at the tail end of his career. It still would be nice if someone in their prime of their career came out...baby steps.

Not completely true about Jason Collins. The free agent signing period hasn't started because the playoffs are still going on. Being a free agent he doesn't even have the opportunity to sign with another team yet. So...he is putting a bit at risk that someone may take this into consideration when the period does open up. It could work for...or against. I guess we will find out.

 

But.....he is definitely at the tail end of his career. It still would be nice if someone in their prime of their career came out...baby steps.

Ratpack - Thanks for keeping me "straight" - Ha!!:p

are unbelievable - go ahead & split hairs....no wonder there's problems onboard & at sea!

Rotterdam - I hate to inform you -- Jason Collins is at the end of his career after 12 years in the pros. He has been released and has yet to be picked up by another team for next year, so at this point he has little to worry about in his career.

 

As for wearing drag on a cruise ship - unless you are going on a gay cruise (and even then I would have to think twice about it) - it does not give IMHO the correct impression of a gay man. It is one thing to be in a bar with our own friends in drag - it is another to be out there in the mainstream. It just perpetuates many of the strereotypes - I guess we are just more conservative in our thinking.

 

On a funny note - we were talking with friends years ago and they were discussing "Dress up night" (aka formal night) and I said we love to wear our tuxes and they said "oh no -- I meant drag -- we roared with laughter - I think me and my husband of 29 years will stick to our tuxes/dinner jackets for mainstream cruises...:)

 

After 25 cruises - people know we are a gay couple (incl. many of the staff that we have travelled with on mulitiple cruises) and we do not have to push someones head into the ground or shout from the rooftops.

 

As for Carnival - we do not travel the line, as that is not our demographic or crowd. We generally stick to Celebrity or Princess. We were on NCL once (never again for a variety of reasons). You do find your comfort zone. On the other hand, we do love our Carnival Shareholder Onboard Credits that you can use on any of their lines. If you get lemons - make lemonade.

 

I wish everyone a great weekend and happy sailing...:)

Rotterdam - I hate to inform you -- Jason Collins is at the end of his career after 12 years in the pros. He has been released and has yet to be picked up by another team for next year, so at this point he has little to worry about in his career.

 

As for wearing drag on a cruise ship - unless you are going on a gay cruise (and even then I would have to think twice about it) - it does not give IMHO the correct impression of a gay man. It is one thing to be in a bar with our own friends in drag - it is another to be out there in the mainstream. It just perpetuates many of the strereotypes - I guess we are just more conservative in our thinking.

 

On a funny note - we were talking with friends years ago and they were discussing "Dress up night" (aka formal night) and I said we love to wear our tuxes and they said "oh no -- I meant drag -- we roared with laughter - I think me and my husband of 29 years will stick to our tuxes/dinner jackets for mainstream cruises...:)

 

After 25 cruises - people know we are a gay couple (incl. many of the staff that we have travelled with on mulitiple cruises) and we do not have to push someones head into the ground or shout from the rooftops.

 

As for Carnival - we do not travel the line, as that is not our demographic or crowd. We generally stick to Celebrity or Princess. We were on NCL once (never again for a variety of reasons). You do find your comfort zone. On the other hand, we do love our Carnival Shareholder Onboard Credits that you can use on any of their lines. If you get lemons - make lemonade.

 

I wish everyone a great weekend and happy sailing...:)

Yeah, neil. I just don't think drag would do me well. I know I'd hear.."Jesus, I guess that bucket of water didn't melt her, get the firehose!"

Yes, sadly - as usual - female athletes are not considered at the same level of importance as male athletes. Billy Jean and Martina were way out in front of the guys.

 

 

 

I am just confused as to what the OP's post has to do with Carnival, or cruising! :confused:

this.

But the problem is, they TOOK THEIR MONEY knowing who they were!!!

 

I find it very insulting that you have to 'go along' with what they feed you...

DON'T TAKE MY MONEY IF I CAN'T BE WHO I WANT TO BE!!!

 

 

You don't hide; Why should they???:(

jwm51 - The cruise lines do not force you to give them your money and they do NOT know who you are. They are there to run a business and make sure everything runs smoothly for all cruisers. They are not there to promote people in drag. You can wear what you want, but if you are possibly going to cause other passengers to be uncomfortable or cause a stir, so you can make a statement - that is not what the cruise lines want or need. Do as you wish...

Yeah, neil. I just don't think drag would do me well. I know I'd hear.."Jesus, I guess that bucket of water didn't melt her, get the firehose!"

keithm - I am with you... They would make us walk the gang plank... I look better in my chicken costume from Halloween.

How the restaurant business going up in New England?

Take care...

jwm51 - The cruise lines do not force you to give them your money and they do NOT know who you are. They are there to run a business and make sure everything runs smoothly for all cruisers. They are not there to promote people in drag. You can wear what you want, but if you are possibly going to cause other passengers to be uncomfortable or cause a stir, so you can make a statement - that is not what the cruise lines want or need. Do as you wish...

 

 

 

keithm - I am with you... They would make us walk the gang plank... I look better in my chicken costume from Halloween.

 

How the restaurant business going up in New England?

 

Take care...

Business was good in '12. Looks even better as I look ahead. We've got a $50K wedding this August. Quite the affair.We did Vegas this Jan. as opposed to our usual cruising. We enjoyed it a lot, but still plan to go cruising this winter after the busy season ends.

Business was good in '12. Looks even better as I look ahead. We've got a $50K wedding this August. Quite the affair.We did Vegas this Jan. as opposed to our usual cruising. We enjoyed it a lot, but still plan to go cruising this winter after the busy season ends.

keithm - Glad business is good... We are already looking at the calendar for next year and the week of March 22, 2014 fits our calendar...:) It would be great to meet onboard sometime.

Have a great Wednesday...

Very interesting thread - thanks, Rotterdam, you got people going on more topics than you had in mind, I'm sure.

I'm struck by the variety of opinions here - makes me ask a question I've asked for a long time:

As gay folk, what do we really have in common?

Or to put it in the mirror, what do straight folk really have in common?

Across the entire population, I'm talking about...lots of groups in all communities feel the sting of oppression or stigmatization.

We have lots of different opinions on everything, it seems to me.

Yeah, I'm off topic here. Thanks for reading, and happy sailing to all!

I'd say what we have had in common for the longest time was being different and being marginalized. Yes, that is changing, thank goodness.

jwm51 - The cruise lines do not force you to give them your money and they do NOT know who you are. They are there to run a business and make sure everything runs smoothly for all cruisers. They are not there to promote people in drag. You can wear what you want, but if you are possibly going to cause other passengers to be uncomfortable or cause a stir, so you can make a statement - that is not what the cruise lines want or need. Do as you wish...

 

 

 

keithm - I am with you... They would make us walk the gang plank... I look better in my chicken costume from Halloween.

 

How the restaurant business going up in New England?

 

Take care...

:mad:So it's fine for people run around half-naked in front of children BUT not a man in a dress??? DOUBLE STANDARD!!!

If 'they are not there to promote', AGAIN DON'T TAKE THE MONEY!!! What's wrong with "Sorry, because of the nature of our clientele, we regretfully decline booking your group and its show"...

As you point out, they are a BUSINESS FIRST..As such, they have,the right to refuse service to ANYONE.

THERE!!! I fixed it for ya! Bon Voyage!!!:cool:

keithm - Glad business is good... We are already looking at the calendar for next year and the week of March 22, 2014 fits our calendar...:) It would be great to meet onboard sometime.

 

Have a great Wednesday...

Let me know what cruiseline you're planning on. We might be able to pull off the same time frame.

I think it's important to point out that the OP likely meant by "major" sport that they were talking about US baseball, football, hockey and basketball. Tennis isn't a major sport in American culture, especially women sports. Jason Collins broke the barrier of being the first openly gay athlete in a sport that a decent chunk of Americans watch and in a macho arena.

Also, I don't know if the majority of those responding either don't know about it, or have already forgotten about it, but Carnival sponsored a RuPaul's Drag Race cruise on one of their ships last year in which I think like 55 drag queens were going to be present and performing for those involved in that particular part of the cruise. Before the cruise Carnival came out and stated you can't dress in drag outside of the shows. When they received the backlash they did, they reversed that decision and said drag would be allowed on the ship. It's important to note that while these people are in the minority, when you bring drag queens into the mix, some of them are not just dressing in drag. Some of those people, whether it be spectators or performers are transgendered and they only feel comfortable dressing as the opposite gender.

Now, with that said, when I think about cruise lines that are gay friendly, three come to mind; Carnival, Norwegian and Royal Caribbean. I know Carnival is typically welcoming to gay people, I know Norwegian has FOD meetings every night and Royal Caribbean has been involved in charters of gay cruises.

Carnival was not a sponsor of the drag race; a travel company organized a large group on a Carnival cruise ship.

Keeping in my small mind......the LGBT community is very diversified.......I still have a question I cant resolve.

Some say we are just the same....no different than heterosexuals. We want to be considered equal, treated the same.....just like everyone else.

Others say we are not the same....so get over it. In your face with my gayness so to speak.

This seems to me to be a mixed signal with or without the stereo type being pushed.

So are we no different or are we different and need that difference fully accepted.

Then there is that Gay life style line I hear......I asked someone who threw that on in my face.....I asked.....if the gay life style is determined by who you sleep with....than what life style am I living if I abstain? Am I living the straight life style????? Crap, I sleep with my dachshund Gracie....am I living a dog life style??????

Back to the original post.

Anyone that outs him or herself should be commended. It is different for each individual but it takes strength and courage regardless of race, creed, gender, occupation.

Me, I find that its a continual thing, not once and done. I still have a discomfort level having to out myself... but that may be due to my age (vintage). I know Peter......ya are Blanche ya are.

I think this sports figure did a great thing for himself and it will be up to others to determine if it is right for them.

I did however frown on the action of the President who made sure he got into the media.......calling him and making sure it was publicized. Its Collins time in the spot light........period.

My best wishes for Mr Collins endeavors.