Cruise "cancelled" even though deposit paid

We have had a call from our TA this morning to state that APT has "cancelled" our Amsterdam to Budapest cruise. I use the term "cancelled" loosely as the cruise is actually still sailing. All the TA could tell us was that "the boat has been charted by another company" and he believes that, although it appears that APT could have left us on this cruise, they probably had few cabins booked and it is easier for them to "offload" us to another sailing.

APT has offered us the 19th September 2015 sailing which is a week prior to our original sailing of the 25th September 2015. That sailing now shows up as "no availability" on APT's website along with another in August and also May that I noticed they had originally had trouble filling. APT has "kindly" offered us a "complimentary upgrade" from an "E" to a "D" cabin. Firstly I do not consider this an upgrade as the cabins seem identical and are on the same deck (in fact our "E" cabin was next to a "D" cabin. And APT would not have a choice on this sailing but to give us a "D" cabin as all the "E" cabins are booked! I think APT were banking on the fact that we would be clients who don't do research.

Another factor for us is Amsterdam's International Broadcasting Convention is held mid-September annually. Accommodation prices shoot up and availability becomes scarce. The sailing we have been offered would probably put us right at the tail end of that. We chose the date we did due to wanting an "E" cabin and there were limited sailings left in that category, plus it dovetailed nicely with my son's school holidays and also with my birthday. Plus it also avoided (for the most part) that "busy" time in Amsterdam.

I have not read the T&C's again to check re this sort of situation but I presume it it is covered. Surprising I am not upset but more stunned that you can pay your deposit for a cruise, have your actual cabin assigned, and then be told the boat is still sailing but APT want to move you (and presumably any other passengers booked for that sailing) onto other sailings. It has really shaken our faith in the company and what's to say (although unlikely) that they won't do it again?

We chose not to use Scenic due to their response to last year's floods and APT were the only other company we were looking at as we wanted to take advantage of the included airfare. We will ponder over this for the next day or so but are seriously considering just accepting the "cancellation" concentrating on a Baltics cruise (see my signature) that came up unexpectedly and seemed to good a deal to pass up. I have no idea how long APT would take to refund our money.

I'm sure we are not the only passengers this has ever happened to but can't recall reading anything along these lines on the board. As mentioned earlier, the thing I that has left me gobsmacked (perhaps I'm just naive) is that you can pay a deposit and book a cabin and then be told that the boat is still sailing but you're not on it :(

APT does not have their own boats and just try to get enough people in group on what looks like AMAwaterway ships.

I have a suspension that they cannot get a big enough group together.

can understand your disappointment. at least you have plenty of notice and had not paid in full. or had flights committed and paid for.

Thank you both for your comments. I agree with you both. Yes we are very lucky it is so far out. Donray you are probably right - it is a risk going with a company that charters boats I guess and we lost out, that's all. I am quite philosophical about life's little "bumps" and they usually happen for a reason. I'm sure this is just one of those "bumps" :) It was just a shock as APT have never said they had to get minimum numbers and it sounded as though it was a definite and was advertised as such. Lesson learned. Cest la vie :)

Apologies for the errors in the previous post but I was too late to edit.

I'm sorry about this TazCaz, but it doesn't surprise me with APT,l I am NOT a fan, or should I say, used to be a fan, am not now.

I have heard of this occurring. We learned a lot during our horrid experience with them. Their ships (at least the two I was learning about) were both APT branded, ie they have APT emblazoned on them, clearly badged. However, APT have only a cruise director on board, AMA run the entire ship-side of things in Europe. AMA ships had AMA on them.

This particular thing has happened to us, a long while back, but with Insight, not with a River company, however I have had it occur on a small company in Thailand that sails on the Kwai, but they only need 20 to book her!

I personally am not understanding of companies when they take your deposit and then say, oh, yeah, sorry, so sad,l too bad. I agree with the cat E to cat D - but then this is their attitude IMHO. I would take my $$ back if I could and try and book my dates with another company. Is that in your contract? I mean if THEY cancel, not you? Did you take out that insurance of cancelling for any reason?

Thanks Yggdrasil98 :) I do have travel insurance but it is not cancel for any reason as far as I know. I didn't think you could get "cancel for any reason" insurance in Australia but I could be wrong. I am presuming (hopefully correctly) that because APT have "booted" us off that sailing date they are liable for the deposit we have paid ($1000 AUD each) and will refund accordingly. As long as we receive that back promptly I am happy to call it quits although it also means that I no longer have faith in APT (I doubt that will worry them). My husband has said that if we accepted another date (and we have only been offered one unsuitable one) he would worry the whole time that (although unlikely) APT may do the same thing to us again.

I have checked their website and I know when we booked there were at least two other sailings (in May and August) which we were looking at for "E" cabins and which appeared to be slow to fill. Both those dates (like our September one) are now showing up as "not available". I would make the presumption that rather than the cabins are all taken, that those passengers have probably been offloaded to other sailings also.

So although very disappointed with, and now very wary of, APT, as long as our deposit is refunded quickly, we will chalk it up to experience. The prior sailing really doesn't suit and we would also miss my son's 18th birthday which would disappoint us and him. The only other company we were interested in was Scenic but we are wary of them due to the flood situation last year. I realise there are other comapnies such as Viking, Avalon, Tauck, Uniworld etc but by the time we add on the airfare, and then excursions etc for those lines that don't include them, it works out far more expensive than our current booking.

Thanks for the comments and insight and maybe this will serve a warning to others that APT won't necessarily honour your booking. Now looking forward to our Baltic cruise next year even more so :D

I understand your disappointment and frustration. I've never been clear about the relationship between APT and AMA (they describe themselves as "partners" but that's pretty vague). If you look at the AMA website, there are clearly cruises missing -- which I assume are on APT. So yes, same boat, same crew, just different Cruise Manager (they change with each sailing anyway) and different inclusives. But when I go to the APT website (from a US ISP) I can never see any dates, so I can't verify this.

My point is (after rambling about a bit, sorry) that if APT and AMA are "partners," perhaps you could ask APT to move your reservation to an AMA sailing of this cruise if that would be a better date for you? [The price should go down for you though, because tipping wouldn't be included.]

One further point about the category E/category D upgrade. Other than price, I can't see any reason to prefer E. There is a slight benefit to upgrading to D, which is that you are further from the engines and closer to the stairs. The white space behind the E cabins is for the crew cabins -- they are there because it's the least desirable location, so I would be happy to move further away from it.

This happens with all cruise lines. With Windstar, I've had one cruise chartered, one cruise where the line changed owners and my sailing was cancelled so the ship could be refurbished, and one sailing was switched to a different ship and different dates, effectively cancelling for us.

If you read your cruise contract, you will find that the cruise line has the right to do pretty much anything, including charter your sailing. It's a huge pain.

Thank you both.

6rugrats I presumed that APT did have the right to offload us but I certainly didn't expect that they would. Looking at some of the other sailings, I'm presuming there are a few people this is currently happening to.

Host Jazzbeau, I see your point regarding the "D" vs "E" cabins. I just didn't like the way that APT made it sound like they were doing us a huge favour by ugrading us when there were no "E" cabins available anyway. Still I suppose they could have just said we were no longer allowed to cruise on that date and not offer us any alternative. I also share your confusion regarding the APT/AMA "partnership". I've never really understood it either.

I think we'll contact our TA on Monday and refuse the earlier sailing and check how long it will take to be refunded. We are disappointed with APT but not distraught about not going and feel that maybe it's not meant to be. We feel very lucky that we still have our May 2015 Baltic cruise to look forward to and hope that will be all smooth sailing from hereon in (excuse the pun)! Thanks everyone for your feedback/suggestions - it is greatly appreciated :)

Don't count Scenic out so easily, I travelled with them last year and would not hesitate to book with them again.

TazKaz, so frustrating for you. I had the same experience with an ocean cruise line. My sister and I had booked a Caribbean cruise for my niece as a gift for her college graduation. About 3 mos before departure date, we received a call that the cruise had been chartered by a large corporation and so my niece (and her husband) could either choose another specific date at the cruise line's discretion or take a refund. We chose the refund.

Becki

That's not fair ...

I've always felt the terms should be equal on both sides.

If you cancel over 100 days out and you lose your deposit then the same should apply the other way around, if they cancel they should pay you back your deposit and the same again as a penalty.

Seems fair to me and might make them consider more carefully before dumping passengers like this ..

I've always felt the terms should be equal on both sides.

 

If you cancel over 100 days out and you lose your deposit then the same should apply the other way around, if they cancel they should pay you back your deposit and the same again as a penalty.

 

Seems fair to me and might make them consider more carefully before dumping passengers like this ..

I can't see it happening but I do like your thinking :D

I can't see it happening but I do like your thinking :D

I live in hope :)

In all seriousness though it should be this way and as consumer laws develop and regulations to control 'contracts of adhesion' get more teeth we may yet see something of this nature in some jurisdictions at least ...

Mark T I totally agree and live in hope too.

rjscott thank you for your kind words. I'm so sorry that happened to your family. What a thoughtful aunt your niece has though :)

Host Jazzbeau - thanks for the idea of checking with AMA Waterways. "Our" cruise is not on their website (no sailing on that date) and when I checked the itinerary, it is slightly different to APT's and also leaves out some of the "Signature Experiences" that APT offer such as the visit to "Princess Heidi's" castle and the day trip to Salzburg on the Majestic Imperator, all of which my husband was looking forward to. Adding the airfare onto their price also puts it at far higher than what we were going to pay for this cruise but I appreciate the thought :)

Don't count Scenic out so easily, I travelled with them last year and would not hesitate to book with them again.

We have had 2 different TA's state that when there are any problems with bookings etc it is always a hassle to try to get Scenic to fix it. I have no proof of their statements, only what they have told me.

I can assure you that Scenic were originally our first choice and it took a good 6 months or so of soul searching and research to decide not to travel with them. I am glad you had a great trip with them and the likelihood is that we would too. But I judge a company of how they act when things go wrong and, based on my research, Scenic failed abysmally with their actions last year. Some may be willing to take the risk amd good for them, but we are not.

That's not fair ...

What can I say - that's absolute gold :D:D:D

As mentioned a few posts ago, we'll get in touch with our TA on Monday and see if we can get our deposit back promptly and concentrate on the Baltic cruise :)

... But when I go to the APT website (from a US ISP) I can never see any dates, so I can't verify this....

I don't know if you can view this page for AMS-BUD: http://www.aptouring.com.au/trip-finder/trip-departures-dates-prices?id=FR9F0snyH0elmN-5UrP8lQ&itineraryid=2EhfpYDAkEmW0cwWXSS1iA

e.g. Sept 2014 - 13, 14, 26, 27, 28; October 2014 - 11, 12, 25; November 2014 - 8

I don't know if you can view this page for AMS-BUD: http://www.aptouring.com.au/trip-finder/trip-departures-dates-prices?id=FR9F0snyH0elmN-5UrP8lQ&itineraryid=2EhfpYDAkEmW0cwWXSS1iA

 

e.g. Sept 2014 - 13, 14, 26, 27, 28; October 2014 - 11, 12, 25; November 2014 - 8

Thanks for trying, but they sniffed out my US location. This is what I see:

APT.pdf

Jazzbeau,

Since you might need it in the future, Google "web proxy australia" without the quotes and a few come up. I don't vouch for any of them but the first one worked for me.

Sorry this happened to you. I've heard of it in the ocean cruising industry as well. I do not think it is fair. If a large corporation or whatever wants to charter the cruise date they better book it ahead of time just like John Q Public!!!!

Sorry this happened to you. I've heard of it in the ocean cruising industry as well. I do not think it is fair. If a large corporation or whatever wants to charter the cruise date they better book it ahead of time just like John Q Public!!!!

Thanks, that's very kind of you and I totally agree.

Just an update - It's Tuesday afternoon here in Australia. I had no response at all yesterday to my email to my TA stating we could not take the earlier sailing so we would have to accept the cancellation and hoped our money would be returned promptly.

I went in this morning and asked what was happening and my TA said he would let APT know we were accepting the cancellation and said he didn't know how long a refund would take as the agency hasn't had this situation occur before. He stated "we have a good working relationship with APT" so hopefully it wouldn't take long. Seems pretty easy to me - APT can't deliver as promised so they have to return our money. He said he agreed it was a poor effort on APT's part as his understanding was the dates were "guaranteed departures" which obviously means nothing.

We are actually fine about it (although we no longer have faith in APT). We just want our money returned so we can move on and look forward to our other trip :)

I agree with an earlier poster, don't rule Scenic out in a hurry, we went with them last year in August and had a fantastic cruise and would not hesitate to book with them again.

Cheers:)

Thanks Brisbanelionsfan :)

I feel you may need to be a bit patient waiting for your refund TazCaz, wheels within wheels. However that's not to say you can't "feedback" directly to the PR people at APT, for what it's worth.

The cancel insurance I was referring to was the one you pay the cruise line for when you book, I think it's around $75 - it doesn't come in your regular holiday insurance. I sometimes take it, sometimes not, but I did take it out on a Uniworld trip booked for this month actually, and back at the end of summer it was so hot, and I kept reading how hot the non-cruise in Italy was I simply changed my mind and switched to Bordeaux. First time I have ever done that, but I am glad I had the insurance as it made it easier to cancel it, basically on a bad day in summer!

Hope you book somewhere nice, I loved the Baltic, though that was before this recent strife. Hopefully you'll have a great time, it's an interesting region.

Thanks Yggdrasil98 - yes all in good time, it's all a process. As long as we do get our money back all is good :) I do remember the APT insurance was mentioned by my TA but it was marketed as being for if we changed our mind not APT as I recall. Fantastic that you could change your trip to something that suited you better :)

Thanks for your good wishes - the Baltic region is new to me so I'm very excited :D