Journey's August 9, 2012 Itinerary Update

Hello EastSideGuy, RZ06, Vi Paddlers and others -

When I was reviewing our Facebook page, I noticed your comments about your disappointment and frustration with the unexpected itinerary change on the forthcoming Azamara Journey's 11-night voyage, August 9 - 20, 2012, Southampton to Lisbon. Then, when I went to Cruise Critic's Roll Call section, I noticed the type of discussion that I would usually find as a separate thread on the Azamara Forum. In the past, I have not checked the Roll Calls for negative complaints; however, I will do in the future, especially when there has been an itinerary change.

As a result we posted the following message on Facebook:

"At Azamara Club Cruises, our main goal is to deliver Azamazing voyages and shore experiences for our guests. However, some things are out of our control including tidal changes. Due to tidal changes in Bordeaux, we have had to change our hours in Bordeaux, which unfortunately caused a domino effect for some of the other ports of call, including Bilbao. To ensure that guests will still receive an exceptional experience, we are currently creating a night tour out of Pasajes, Spain, which will allow our guests to experience some of the highlights of Bilbao and San Sebastian. We're sorry that this unexpected tidal change has caused you disappointment and we're hopeful that our soon to be announced night tours will add another dimension to your experience. You can follow the progress of our efforts on Cruise Critic by visiting Azamara's board and reviewing a new thread, titled "Journey's August 9, 2012 Itinerary Update," which will be managed by our Chief Blogging Officer, Bill Leiber."

Please visit that new location on the Azamara Forum so that we can continue this discussion and I can share with you updates about our night-touring optional shore excursion offerings.

When I have more information I will let you know and thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

N.B.

A couple of people on the board noted they were looking a cycling tour of the Boredeaux vineyards. I have to concur this sounds like an excellent idea.

Also, I've been to Porto a couple of times for business, so know the city. However, I really wanted to visit the Dao Valley. Would it be possible to put together an express tour from in the latter half of the afternoon to 1 or 2 vineyards with tastings, perhaps with some tapas?

These tours would be much appreciated.

Frank, question: You mentioned 'tons of empty cabins on line.' Do you know of a way we can visually see the empty cabins much like the airplane seating charts? I would very much like to see this schematic posted to avoid calling the TA to check on available cabins.

BTW, my TA has not notified us on the route time changes. You would think that since Azamara has our email addresses, notification would have been sent a week ago since Azamara determined the changes.

Thank you, Nancy

Frank, question: You mentioned 'tons of empty cabins on line.' Do you know of a way we can visually see the empty cabins much like the airplane seating charts? I would very much like to see this schematic posted to avoid calling the TA to check on available cabins.

BTW, my TA has not notified us on the route time changes. You would think that since Azamara has our email addresses, notification would have been sent a week ago since Azamara determined the changes.

 

Thank you, Nancy

I think the inventory is supposed to be a kept secret.

Mr. Lieber, this gutted itinerary does not appeal. It is very similar to the voyage described in ACC's 2012 Destination Guide, which I studied but did NOT book.

It was only when ACC included an 11-hr stop in Belle Isle and a lovely, late afternoon sail up the Gironde Estuary with overnight and FULL day in Bordeaux, that you once again grabbed my attention. Then, by offering a full day docked in Bilbao (minimizing coach time) you started to live up to the "Bordeaux Wine & the Guggenheim" handle. Frosting on the cake for me was the 13-hr stop in Porto, a World Heritage site, with plenty of morning, afternoon, and early evening time to explore this important city & its surrounds.

While I certainly understand how tides must impact the Journey, that does not explain why you switched the times in Bordeaux in the first place. Destination guide presented Itinerary A - Sun., 3:15 AM to Mon., 3:30 PM - a few months later there was Itinerary B - Sun., 4:00 PM to Mon., 11:00 PM (this is when I happily booked) - and now you're back to Itinerary A.

I count 4 major itinerary changes on this 11 night voyage, and I'm not happy with any of them. The voyage I took with my family in 2009 on Azamara was stupendous; I had hoped for another quality experience but at this point I believe you've shaved the itinerary to save money, and have reneged on the promise of your advertisements.

Well Said.....I would think most of us feel this way.

Frank, question: You mentioned 'tons of empty cabins on line.' Do you know of a way we can visually see the empty cabins much like the airplane seating charts? I would very much like to see this schematic posted to avoid calling the TA to check on available cabins.

BTW, my TA has not notified us on the route time changes. You would think that since Azamara has our email addresses, notification would have been sent a week ago since Azamara determined the changes.

 

Thank you, Nancy

Hi Ocean Hills,

There are very few sites that offer expanded views on inventory. Unfortunately, we cannot discuss them here. Keep in mind that web search engines such as Google may be helpful in your Quest.

Well Said.....I would think most of us feel this way.

Touche from our party of 4 Ithikan!!!!!

I well understand the frustration with the changes with Bilbao. It is a wonderful city, not just for the Guggenheim (which is stunning), but also for the old city. Like San Sebastian, there is a wealth of beautiful art nouveau architecture.

The main port for Bilbao is in Santurtzi, about 12 miles/25 minutes from the center of Bilbao. Unfortunately with an apparent 12:00 Noon departure on August 17, you would have to be at the Guggenheim at the 10:00 opening, and then only have 30 minutes to enjoy it.

On August 16, we are in San Sebastian all day, until 4:00 PM, and then dock in Bilbao at 10:30 PM. There is an hourly bus from San Sebastian to Bilbao, the journey is just over an hour, and the fare is about 15 Euros. It would be easy to take an early afternoon bus from San Sebastian, and be in Bilbao for the 5:00 PM guided tour of the museum, which is open until 8:00 PM that night. Obviously, this would be in lieu of sailing from San Sebastian to Bilbao.

I speak Spanish, and have been to both cities twice, so would be happy to help anyone else interested. Let's make the best of it!

Best regards, Frank

Diane and Jade - Not allowed to discuss this here - violation of Cruise Critic policy - must be respected.

N.B.

 

A couple of people on the board noted they were looking a cycling tour of the Boredeaux vineyards. I have to concur this sounds like an excellent idea.

quote]

 

It looks as though Azamara has put together a bicycle tour of St. Emilion for Sun., Aug. 12 starting at 7:30 AM and priced at $249.50. Hmmm. $500 for the pair of us, prepaid, no OBC allowed. However, I might need to consider this, if the alternative is the Margaux tasting tour at 8:30 the next morning!

 

Teri

Hello to the Journey's August 9 Travelers -

I've been following your comments the last few days and I have been preparing a discussion document about this unexpected situation that will be reviewed by our itinerary and shore excursion management team. Once they have considered your concerns and recommendations, then I will connect with you again, when I have something definite to report.

In the meantime, please enjoy the weekend ahead.

Sincerely,

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

Mr. Lieber, this gutted itinerary does not appeal. It is very similar to the voyage described in ACC's 2012 Destination Guide, which I studied but did NOT book.

 

It was only when ACC included an 11-hr stop in Belle Isle and a lovely, late afternoon sail up the Gironde Estuary with overnight and FULL day in Bordeaux, that you once again grabbed my attention. Then, by offering a full day docked in Bilbao (minimizing coach time) you started to live up to the "Bordeaux Wine & the Guggenheim" handle. Frosting on the cake for me was the 13-hr stop in Porto, a World Heritage site, with plenty of morning, afternoon, and early evening time to explore this important city & its surrounds.

 

While I certainly understand how tides must impact the Journey, that does not explain why you switched the times in Bordeaux in the first place. Destination guide presented Itinerary A - Sun., 3:15 AM to Mon., 3:30 PM - a few months later there was Itinerary B - Sun., 4:00 PM to Mon., 11:00 PM (this is when I happily booked) - and now you're back to Itinerary A.

 

I count 4 major itinerary changes on this 11 night voyage, and I'm not happy with any of them. The voyage I took with my family in 2009 on Azamara was stupendous; I had hoped for another quality experience but at this point I believe you've shaved the itinerary to save money, and have reneged on the promise of your advertisements.

Hi Terri

I sailed with you on the 2009 voyage (and 3 previous trips). They were all wonderful and it has taken until now, with the original itinerary, to return to Azamara.

The anticipation of sailing with Azamara again has been badly spoiled by the new arrangements and I only hope that Bill has some better news for us after the weekend.

Carol

Ah, the elegant 'Piscean' from our Holy Lands voyage - Hi, Carol!

You're right of course, anticipation has been spoiled. I am very interested to learn the results of this weekend's "itinerary and shore excursion management team" discussion. Will there be a return to Itinerary B??

Sailing the west coast of France is what initially intrigued me, and I sorely feel the loss of Belle-Ile. I wonder if a stop at La Rochelle is possible? Or at the very least, more time in Porto at the end of the cruise?

I posted on facebook and on our original page about the port changes. I want to make sure that all comments are read. Karen

I posted on facebook and on our original page about the port changes. I want to make sure that all comments are read. Karen

I too am covering my bases and watching both the facebook, as well as the original CC posts in our roll call. I really hope we receive some encouraging news after the "journey summit" :rolleyes: this weekend.

Ah, the elegant 'Piscean' from our Holy Lands voyage - Hi, Carol!

 

You're right of course, anticipation has been spoiled. I am very interested to learn the results of this weekend's "itinerary and shore excursion management team" discussion. Will there be a return to Itinerary B??

 

Sailing the west coast of France is what initially intrigued me, and I sorely feel the loss of Belle-Ile. I wonder if a stop at La Rochelle is possible? Or at the very least, more time in Porto at the end of the cruise?

Hi Terri

I have stayed at La Roche Bernard and toured this area which is why I wanted to return. La Rochelle would be wonderful.................

Carol

I also am on the August 9 voyage whose itinerary has been vastly changed. I do not understand why tides should cause the port of Belle Isle to be cancelled since we spend the entire day now at sea. If we are cancelling a port shouldn't the other ports be given better times rather than ones that limit sight seeing. The fact that tides in Bordeaux are supposedly altering this cruise so dramatically, tells me that maybe only that port should be changed and the others left alone.

I have not been on the cruise critic pages for awhile as we had grandkids visiting,. I also am not happy with the changes. I posted a comment on Azamara facebook page because I cannot understand why one ports tidal changes should cause cancellation of an earlier port or do such damage to other port schedules. Why isn't Bordeaux altered or skipped and the other ports left alone. Karen

I have not been on the cruise critic pages for awhile as we had grandkids visiting,. I also am not happy with the changes. I posted a comment on Azamara facebook page because I cannot understand why one ports tidal changes should cause cancellation of an earlier port or do such damage to other port schedules. Why isn't Bordeaux altered or skipped and the other ports left alone. Karen

Hi Karen

The changed programme also reduces the number of hours in ports by a considerable number............

This Azamara 'Port intensive', cruise advertised as, ' Isles (!) Wine & Guggenheim (only if we rush and then not for long) Voyage!'

Carol

Hello to the Journey's August 9 Travelers -

Thank you very much for your patience while our itinerary and shore excursion team is still reformulating the itinerary and developing new 'land discoveries' as a result of the unexpected tidal change in Bordeaux. As was explained to me, it's important to remember that this port is a "tidal" port which means that our vessel can only enter AND exit the port of Bordeaux based on the times provided to us by the local pilots.

BACKGROUND

As a result, this new time frame created a domino effect not only on the port prior to Bordeaux - Belle Ile, but also down-line after Bordeaux:

Belle Ile - Our originally scheduled stop in Bell Ile had to be cancelled as a result of the new Bordeaux departure timing change related to the tidal conditions of the Garonne river.

Bordeaux -

With respect to Bordeaux, in the first issue of our 2012 Destination Guide (US/Canada) no specific port times were indicated other than "PM" under "Arrive" and "Depart" and that it would offer an "overnight" stay because we were awaiting the tidal times from the pilots.

We will now arrive into Bordeaux at 03:15 AM on Sunday, August 12 due to the tides since we lost more than half a day that was set aside for Belle Ile. Departure from Bordeaux will be on August 13 at 03:30 PM. That offers you the entire DAY AND NIGHT in Bordeaux on August 12th ..PLUS until 03:30 PM on Monday - almost two full days.

Saint-Jean-De-Luz, France -

The port times in St. Jean de Luz actually provide more time than the original iteration ...around 29 hours rather than 20. However, rather than arrive at 04:00 PM, Tuesday, August 14, as originally scheduled, the vessel will now arrive at 08:00 AM. The sailing time the next day (Wednesday, August 15) was originally scheduled for 02:00 PM is now at 01:30 PM.

Pasajes (for San Sebastian, Spain) -

San Sebastian does not have a port and Pasajes is the closest port to San Sebastian at a distance of only 4 miles/6 km! It was originally scheduled as a evening call from Wednesday, August 15 at 05:30 PM until the next morning, Thursday, August 16 at 02:00 am. The intent of that original schedule offered an evening opportunity for you to visit the charming Old Town of San Sebastian and sample some of what are generally known as the best tapas bars in all of Spain.

With the new revised times of arriving Wednesday, August 15 at 04:30 PM and not departing until the next morning, Thursday, August 16 at 04:00 PM, you will still have the opportunity to sample the Tapas Bars of Old San Sebastian that evening, but also the next morning, to visit the very attractive and popular city of San Sebastian. We are hopeful that you will enjoy this popular town.

Bilbao

We have reached out to the Guggenheim Museum and we will be offering an early morning exclusive opening of the Guggenheim Museum beginning at 7:30AM on the morning of the August 17. Their normal opening hour is 10:00 AM. Because of limited staffing and opening hours, the museum will not be able to accommodate independent visitors for this early opening and thus guests wishing to see the inside of the museum are highly encouraged to take part on our organized tour.

Also, since the Journey departs Pasajes at 04:30PM on the August 16 and arrives in Bilbao at 11:30PM that same night, we will also offer an evening "overland" program that takes a select group of guests to Guetaria, Zumaia, and a pintxos (Spanish tapas) dinner experience at a two star Michelin restaurant in Azurmendi - all located along the way between Pasajes and Bilbao. The program will also take the guests by the Guggenheim in the evening so that they have an opportunity to view the beautiful architectural wonder of the museum before returning to the ship in Bilbao.

Both of the above programs are being finalized and will not be shown in our Land Discoveries programs section of our website. They should be posted there within the next 10 days; however, as soon as I have the confirmed operating details I will share them with all you on this thread.

Final Thoughts

I have shared your specific personal opinions about some of the port with our itinerary planner, who believes that this fascinating voyage offers some of the very best ports that can be visited in this part of the world:

 Commencing with a full day in the charming and idyllic St. Peter Port followed by a relaxing day at sea.

 Almost two full days and a night in amazing Bordeaux where, due to the small size of our vessel, the Azamara Journey will be berthing only minutes from the very heart of this attractive city.

 St. Jean de Luz has always received rave reviews from our guests in the past and also offers easy access to magnificent Bayonne and the famous resort town of Biarritz.

 And of course, Pasajes for San Sebastian and Bilbao have been addressed above.

 Although the time in Porto has been reduced, there are excursions that offer highlights of this most interesting city in northern Portugal.

 The voyage concludes with a noon arrival and full overnight in wonderful Lisbon.

We understand your disappointment about the impact that the unexpected tidal conditions on the originally published itinerary. Now, some of you find yourselves in a distressing position of having to reassess your initial positive expectations about your Azamara vacation rather than fast-forwarding yourselves into the voyage experience.

It's always a very difficult experience when the need arises to make an itinerary change, for whatever reason, for both our guests and ourselves. Nevertheless, it's one of the inescapable risks of the cruise product which explains why the industry is always sure to clearly state that itineraries are subject to change.

I think from a few of the comments expressed here and on Facebook, that perhaps we've lost some of your confidence about our integrity to continue to deliver the onboard experience that has been so highly rated by many of you and others who have had the opportunity to already vacation with us. It is within this context, "Ithikan," that "I assure you that we have not "shaved the itinerary to save money and have reneged on the promise of [our] advertisements." Further, there is no need to cause a "stir" on Facebook to get our attention. Our relationship with our current and future guest is our most important asset.

Please go directly to the Cruise Critic Azamara Forum to continue this discussion and any others that might arise because it's open and honest. We just want to be as good as we can be and that's why I spend time on Cruise Critic and the internet's cruise message boards.

Travelers need to book what they believe to be the best for them. I'm hopeful that many of you will find this revised itinerary acceptable and if so, we are grateful for your support.

Respectfully,

Bill Leiber

_____________________

Chief Blogging Officer*

Azamara Club Cruises

(*CBO is an authorized and compensated representative of ACC)

Mr. Leiber,

I am indeed happy to see the results of your conversations with Azamara's itinerary planner. But first, I must thank Cruise Critic for this forum, where I've learned so much about bore tides (see the Univ. of Bordeaux document ~great photos!~ Large Amplitude Undular Tidal Bore Propagation in the Garonne River, France). Whew. The article uses words like 'tsunami' and is quite interesting. Glad the knowledgable ACC captains are the best!

So thank you for that. But you need to know that it wasn't I who began the facebook conversations; I count on CC's forums for information and do my own research. Which brings me to one last question.

Azamara is advertizing a remarkably similar voyage to this one, departing Southampton Aug. 16, 2013. And guess what's on the itinerary? Belle Isle, from noon to 8 p.m. followed by a noon docking the next day in Bordeaux. Hope the tide tables were consulted... This cruise also offers 10 hrs in Bilbao, but it's early days. Plenty of time to flip flop, especially since that pesky word "Isles" has been eliminated from the copy.

Thank you for the effort you've put forth to address my cocerns.

Teri

Our group of 10 are very disappointed in your itinerary changes. Perhaps you should consider the suggestion by East Side Guy #9. The ship could charter busses to get us to Bilbao by 5 PM for the last tour. It certainly is better that a 7:30AM tour the next day.

We actually booked this cruise for the opportunity to go to the Guggenheim (part of the tours name). We would not object to leaving Bordeaux out, or cutting the time there.

Dear Bill

This posting is from my husband who does not normally participate in CC.

The rational is flawed. What domino effect?

If the ship is leaving the 'Tidal difficult' Bordeaux at 15.30 instead of 23.00 it is leaving 7.5 hours early and there should be no effect on later timings.

In that a port visit (Belle Isle) has been lost the shore hours are part regained in Bordeaux by earlier arrival and the earlier departure allows for the earlier arrival with more shore hours in St. Jean. Thereafter there is no excuse for any other significant changes to the itinerary booked and paid for.

You have not given any rational necessity for the further changes. Extending Pasajes may be good but not at the expense of strangling the timings for Bilbao where you now require a ridiculous small hours call and breakfast to visit the museum at all. I put up with that in backpacking days but, now retired, cruising should be comfortable. The only other alternative is to visit the city and have to return just when the shops open!

Why shorten the Porto visit? The moons timings have been forecast for centuries and, where river pilots may be idiosyncratic, tidal heights are now available at the touch of a button.

Had it not been for a booked extension in Portugal I would be cancelling.

Dear Bill

Both Ithikan and I are past passengers and were looking forward to the original itinery and the onboard experience that is Azamara.

I don't 'do' facebook but am active on CC and it appears to me that Azamara encourage passengers to participate in facebook.

The handling of this itinerary has severely disappointed my anticipation of a return to Azamara.

Carol