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Can we embark at a non-originating portstop?


kaymoz
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What is the story about cruise lines (CL) allowing passengers to join the cruise at a port after the embarkation port? (Not talking about the situation when someone misses the boat, but when there is deliberate planning due to scheduling constraints, etc.)

 

Similarly, what about passengers desiring to to end their cruise at a port before the official terminus?

 

One venerable CL told me this would be possible, with the exception of US citizens & both ports in the US. Another CL that I just phoned, told me this is forbidden by "the Jones Act," without any geographic specifications. When I phoned them a second time, another rep at the same CL told me it would be possible only if the port is on their list of departure ports, because of their contracts.

 

Does this vary among CL?

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Agree, specifics would be very helpful. Keep in mind there are many complexities involved. Cruise line policy could be tighter than laws(refuse to allow boarding at a port, even tho the government is ok with it), but can't be looser.

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Policies for "downline" embarkation/disembarkation will vary by cruise line. Now, a few points about what you were told:

 

1. The Jones Act refers to US coastwise cargo trade. The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) regulates US coastwise passenger trade. The PVSA does not allow a foreign flag cruise ship to transport passengers (regardless of nationality) from one US port to another US port, without calling at a "distant" foreign port, which means a port that is not in North or Central America, the Caribbean, Bahamas, or Burmuda. So, if you are doing a "closed loop" cruise, say from Miami to the Caribbean, and back to Miami, you could not get on at say Key West and travel to Miami.

 

2. The PVSA does not come into play for a cruise that starts or ends in a foreign port. So, if you were booked on a Seattle closed loop to Alaska, but got on in Vancouver, this would be okay, from the PVSA standpoint, as your cruise started in Canada. Similarly, the Miami closed loop cruise above, if you got on in Grand Cayman, and traveled back to Miami, that would also be okay, from a PVSA standpoint.

 

3. The reason I repeat that starting or ending a cruise at a foreign port other than the origination port is okay, from a PVSA standpoint, is that there are other US regulations that come into play that make this option rare for "intentional" downline boarding. That is the fact that US CBP uses the passenger manifest provided at embarkation to screen, or vet, the passengers, so that the CBP interview at disembarkation is merely a check to see that the face and name disembarking matches the manifest. However, any time a passenger boards or disembarks during the cruise, the manifest changes, and must be resubmitted to CBP. This costs the cruise line money, and can also trigger a more rigorous CBP interview of all passengers at disembarkation, with attendant delays and complaints of missed flights. For this reason, nearly all cruise lines, over the last 3-4 years, have severely restricted, or outright denied intentional downline boarding/disembarking on cruises from US ports. Also, the customs and immigration officers at the foreign port you are boarding at, will have to clear two manifests (one arrival without you, and one departure with you), and have to clear you out of the country, so this can be further expense to the cruise line. I believe that RCI has instituted a fee of one or two hundred to cover expenses incurred with downline boarding.

 

4. Now, in Europe, there are some similar laws to the PVSA, but they are easily gotten around due to the relatively small size of the countries there, so downline boarding is not such an issue, which is why the cruise lines frequently utilize "interporting", or the use of two embarkation ports for the same ship on the same cruise. In other words, a ship can cruise from Barcelona to Rome and back to Barcelona, and the line will also sell this trip as Rome to Barcelona and back to Rome. Downline boarding is very frequently granted by most lines in Europe.

 

5. In Asia, there are some more cabotage laws like the PVSA, in China, Japan, and Australia. So, there are some limitations on downline boarding in these areas, but again, much like Europe, it is frequently granted.

 

Cruise line CSR's are trained to say that anything that is not allowed is due to the Jones Act, and 99% of them have no clue what the Jones Act or the PVSA allow or don't allow. The cruise lines have special departments to deal with the PVSA.

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Basically, you should be calling with a specific itinerary in mind and say "the cruise starts in [city] but can I get on in [alternate city] which is the first port stop. I do believe you wouldn't be able to (for example) board in Florida for a cruise that began in New York.

 

Ask the ending-the-cruise-early question the same way. Though if you were on the ship and then told customer service that you had an emergency and need to get off early; I don't think they can stop you.

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Basically, you should be calling with a specific itinerary in mind and say "the cruise starts in [city] but can I get on in [alternate city] which is the first port stop. I do believe you wouldn't be able to (for example) board in Florida for a cruise that began in New York.

 

Ask the ending-the-cruise-early question the same way. Though if you were on the ship and then told customer service that you had an emergency and need to get off early; I don't think they can stop you.

 

If local customs/immigration authorities at an intermediate port stop see someone disembarking with all their luggage when no one is scheduled to do so they most certainly can stop you and return you to the ship.

 

And yes, the ship can also stop you if you try to disembark early without having arranged to reimburse them for any fines resulting from the PVSA violation--or the "deviation fee" that the cruise line charges per their contract.

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Basically, you should be calling with a specific itinerary in mind and say "the cruise starts in [city] but can I get on in [alternate city] which is the first port stop. I do believe you wouldn't be able to (for example) board in Florida for a cruise that began in New York.

 

Ask the ending-the-cruise-early question the same way. Though if you were on the ship and then told customer service that you had an emergency and need to get off early; I don't think they can stop you.

 

If local customs/immigration authorities at an intermediate port stop see someone disembarking with all their luggage when no one is scheduled to do so they most certainly can stop you and return you to the ship.

 

And yes, the ship can also stop you if you try to disembark early without having arranged to reimburse them for any fines resulting from the PVSA violation--or the "deviation fee" that the cruise line charges per their contract.

Foreign ports don't take kindly to "I do as I please" visitors and expect their laws to be followed.

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Some European consecutive repeat itineraries have a number of embarkation ports a couple of days apart Southampton, Le Havre and Dublin for example. In this type of situation it might be possible to join other members of your cabin at a later port but in all cases you will need the consent of the cruise line and will likely have to pay for the longer voyage including the unused portion of one or more in the group.

 

A number of world cruises have shorter sectors which overlap but these are purchased as advertised but once again generally all passengers in a group start and finish together.

 

Regards John

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Policies for "downline" embarkation/disembarkation will vary by cruise line. Now, a few points about what you were told:

 

1. The Jones Act refers to US coastwise cargo trade. The Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) regulates US coastwise passenger trade. The PVSA does not allow a foreign flag cruise ship to transport passengers (regardless of nationality) from one US port to another US port, without calling at a "distant" foreign port, which means a port that is not in North or Central America, the Caribbean, Bahamas, or Burmuda. So, if you are doing a "closed loop" cruise, say from Miami to the Caribbean, and back to Miami, you could not get on at say Key West and travel to Miami.

 

2. The PVSA does not come into play for a cruise that starts or ends in a foreign port. So, if you were booked on a Seattle closed loop to Alaska, but got on in Vancouver, this would be okay, from the PVSA standpoint, as your cruise started in Canada. Similarly, the Miami closed loop cruise above, if you got on in Grand Cayman, and traveled back to Miami, that would also be okay, from a PVSA standpoint.

 

3. The reason I repeat that starting or ending a cruise at a foreign port other than the origination port is okay, from a PVSA standpoint, is that there are other US regulations that come into play that make this option rare for "intentional" downline boarding. That is the fact that US CBP uses the passenger manifest provided at embarkation to screen, or vet, the passengers, so that the CBP interview at disembarkation is merely a check to see that the face and name disembarking matches the manifest. However, any time a passenger boards or disembarks during the cruise, the manifest changes, and must be resubmitted to CBP. This costs the cruise line money, and can also trigger a more rigorous CBP interview of all passengers at disembarkation, with attendant delays and complaints of missed flights. For this reason, nearly all cruise lines, over the last 3-4 years, have severely restricted, or outright denied intentional downline boarding/disembarking on cruises from US ports. Also, the customs and immigration officers at the foreign port you are boarding at, will have to clear two manifests (one arrival without you, and one departure with you), and have to clear you out of the country, so this can be further expense to the cruise line. I believe that RCI has instituted a fee of one or two hundred to cover expenses incurred with downline boarding.

 

4. Now, in Europe, there are some similar laws to the PVSA, but they are easily gotten around due to the relatively small size of the countries there, so downline boarding is not such an issue, which is why the cruise lines frequently utilize "interporting", or the use of two embarkation ports for the same ship on the same cruise. In other words, a ship can cruise from Barcelona to Rome and back to Barcelona, and the line will also sell this trip as Rome to Barcelona and back to Rome. Downline boarding is very frequently granted by most lines in Europe.

 

5. In Asia, there are some more cabotage laws like the PVSA, in China, Japan, and Australia. So, there are some limitations on downline boarding in these areas, but again, much like Europe, it is frequently granted.

 

Cruise line CSR's are trained to say that anything that is not allowed is due to the Jones Act, and 99% of them have no clue what the Jones Act or the PVSA allow or don't allow. The cruise lines have special departments to deal with the PVSA.

Does #3 come into play when someone misses the ship (or is med evac) and does not return to home port?

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On our recent March 2018 seven night cruise on Oasis of the Seas, my 12 year old started making friends at the teen club from the start. On day 3, she suddenly met a new boy, whose family had just come aboard in port that day, which I believe was St. Maarten. They had booked far in advance, but then the boy had some activity conflict come up that prevented their embarkation at the beginning in Orlando.

 

Other than the added expense of flying to the port and the annoyance of having paid for cruise days they did not experience, they seemed to have no major problems in doing this. I think they just called Royal Caribbean and told them what was going on and did it.

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On our recent March 2018 seven night cruise on Oasis of the Seas, my 12 year old started making friends at the teen club from the start. On day 3, she suddenly met a new boy, whose family had just come aboard in port that day, which I believe was St. Maarten. They had booked far in advance, but then the boy had some activity conflict come up that prevented their embarkation at the beginning in Orlando.

 

Other than the added expense of flying to the port and the annoyance of having paid for cruise days they did not experience, they seemed to have no major problems in doing this. I think they just called Royal Caribbean and told them what was going on and did it.

 

As noted before, I believe RCI has relaxed their restriction and instead are charging a fee for this.

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I joined a cruise downline on HAL's Rotterdam and had to make detailed arrangements with HAL to do that. The cruise started in Rotterdam and its forst port of call was Oslo. A last minute issue at work required that I attend a meeting on the date the ship sailed from Rotterdam. HAL said I was welcome to do that but had to meet the Security Director at shipside at a specified time before boarding and present my Passport. I had only one suitcase; a carryon. My wife boarded in Rotterdam with the rest of my luggage so that was not an issue.

 

 

It went perfectly and was greeted in the Crows Nest after I boarded with a complimentary adult beverage.

 

 

That was several years ago so I can't say you can do that now, but it's easy enough to call the cruise line to determine the rules.

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