So is MSC Armonia under way?

Funny, in this instant news world, there is very little out there about ship damage or if she is under sail again.

Funny, in this instant news world, there is very little out there about ship damage or if she is under sail again.

I would assume so, there was video on Facebook of her docked and the hole being welded up.

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According to Marine Traffic it is headed to Belize City @ 20.3 knots.

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-87.2/centery:16.3/zoom:9

According to Marine Traffic it is headed to Belize City @ 20.3 knots.

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-87.2/centery:16.3/zoom:9

Great-Hate to see any cruzers vaca disrupted by idiot pilots or equipment failure.

Does beg the question: What happened?

You can always check out Cruise Critic's news section if you want to find out more about things. Here's what we've got about this incident.

MSC Cruise Ship Hits Dock in Roatan, Ship Cleared for Sailing

You can always check out Cruise Critic's news section if you want to find out more about things. Here's what we've got about this incident.

 

 

 

MSC Cruise Ship Hits Dock in Roatan, Ship Cleared for Sailing

Appreciate the consolidated information from CC. But it really does not answer the question of what happened.

There is so much wrong with how MSC has handled this on the PR front. From “Grazing the Pier” to saying nobody was ever in any danger.

The ship is sailing now, but I would not want to be on the ship without an explanation of why it happened and what corrective measures were taken. Especially when the line is making every effort to whitewash the obvious.

The ship was sailing out of control, near land, for more than a few minutes. The passengers were in danger during that time. So that’s a lie.

The ship did not graze the pier, that’s another lie.

But “Let’s head on to the next port, you can TRUST us not to crash in to it - even though we’ve released no details as to what happened and what measures we’ve taken to keep it from happening again”

This is truly a nutty situation.

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Don't recall hearing these things when a Disney ship backed into a pier at what looked like Nassau!

Don't you know? Disney can do no wrong, but MSC is Italian, so it must be their fault.

Appreciate the consolidated information from CC. But it really does not answer the question of what happened.

 

There is so much wrong with how MSC has handled this on the PR front. From “Grazing the Pier” to saying nobody was ever in any danger.

 

The ship is sailing now, but I would not want to be on the ship without an explanation of why it happened and what corrective measures were taken. Especially when the line is making every effort to whitewash the obvious.

 

The ship was sailing out of control, near land, for more than a few minutes. The passengers were in danger during that time. So that’s a lie.

 

The ship did not graze the pier, that’s another lie.

 

But “Let’s head on to the next port, you can TRUST us not to crash in to it - even though we’ve released no details as to what happened and what measures we’ve taken to keep it from happening again”

 

This is truly a nutty situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I am sure people on this ship got explanation .Since we are not on this ship we should not worry . Its not first time or last time happens I believe all cruise line had same sort of accidents.

Its not first time or last time happens I believe all cruise line had same sort of accidents.

You are right, unfortunately accidents like this happen...

05/08/2016: Carnival Pride -- crashes into gangway at Baltimore port, causing it to collapse on three vehicles.

06/03/2016: Celebrity Infinity -- crashes into Ketchikan, Alaska, dock causing $2 million to $3 million in damage.

Appreciate the consolidated information from CC. But it really does not answer the question of what happened.

 

There is so much wrong with how MSC has handled this on the PR front. From “Grazing the Pier” to saying nobody was ever in any danger.

 

The ship is sailing now, but I would not want to be on the ship without an explanation of why it happened and what corrective measures were taken. Especially when the line is making every effort to whitewash the obvious.

 

The ship was sailing out of control, near land, for more than a few minutes. The passengers were in danger during that time. So that’s a lie.

 

The ship did not graze the pier, that’s another lie.

 

 

 

But “Let’s head on to the next port, you can TRUST us not to crash in to it - even though we’ve released no details as to what happened and what measures we’ve taken to keep it from happening again”

 

This is truly a nutty situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Is it YOUR business why it happened??? If your that interested start monitoring maritime sites ....Do some work yourself if this interests you so much!!

Is it YOUR business why it happened??? If your that interested start monitoring maritime sites ....Do some work yourself if this interests you so much!!

If he is a future cruiser on that ship then it is absolutely his business why it happened.

He raises legitimate questions that deserves answers,

Is it YOUR business why it happened??? If your that interested start monitoring maritime sites ....Do some work yourself if this interests you so much!!

I’m considering MSC for Europe this summer. Applied for status match as soon as I had proof that I made Diamond on RCCL last month.

If you ride an Uber to the grocery store and the car inexplicably crashes through some shopping carts and wipes out some curbing and that driver there with his dented car waiting to drive you home when you finish your shopping do you get in?

So you call Uber and they say the driver just grazed a shopping cart and we’re judiciously looking in to it in the meantime the car and the driver is on the road, with or without you.

And I guess my assigned homework will have to include finding out if the Armonia (and/or her bridge crew) will be arriving will at any port where my ship is already docked. If this had happened in Cozumel at the RCCL pier, it looks like the bow would have went right through my hump balcony.

I’m by no means an overly cautious person - I just can’t believe they let the ship sail without assuring the passengers and anyone in the ship’s path that the situation had been corrected.

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According to Marine Traffic it is headed to Belize City @ 20.3 knots.

 

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-87.2/centery:16.3/zoom:9

At least it will be miles away from any dock!

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How do you know they haven't told passengers ?

As with all marine accidents a report will be available of what caused the ship to hit the dock.

The ship has been cleared to sail and repairs to the pier will no doubt be paid for by MSC.

How do you know they haven't told passengers ?

As with all marine accidents a report will be available of what caused the ship to hit the dock.

The ship has been cleared to sail and repairs to the pier will no doubt be paid for by MSC.

Well, I don't know about reports for all marine accidents, outside of those occurring in the US or Canada that is. We were scheduled out of Venice in late 2016 and our ship hit a rock coming into port at Nice, France three weeks before we were to board. It holed the vessel and flooded three compartments. They took it into wet dock and got it fixed but had to cancel two cruises. We made it, barely. No accident investigation out yet, that I know of.

Fortunately, we have the NTSB in this country. This collision is close to the one Celebrity had with their Infinity in Ketchikan, except it was the Infinity stern not the bow and wind had a lot to do with it. Here are a few excerpts from the NTSB report concerning Celebrity Cruises' Infinity accident at Ketchikan, plus the link to the NTSB investigation:

"According to the master, Celebrity Cruises’ company safety management system stated the master or staff captain must perform dockings, and the master confirmed to investigators that a pilot had never docked the vessel while he served as master. The staff captain was scheduled to dock the ship on arrival in Ketchikan, and the master told investigators that he was very comfortable with that assignment based on the staff captain’s extensive docking experience. According to the staff captain, he had docked or undocked the Celebrity Infinity and other vessels of its class hundreds of times during his time with Celebrity Cruises. Both the master and the staff captain believed the vessel could be safely docked in 30–35-knot beam winds."

"The pilot told investigators that he was not part of the pre-arrival brief but that he did talk to the master about the expected winds at docking. He said the master assured him they could dock within the parameters being reported to them. The pilot stated the master told him they would come in a bit faster and wider than normal due to the wind. The pilot also stated he told the master that tugboats were available but the master said that “unless the winds were very strong, 30–40 [knots], they would have no problem holding the ship” and that he (the master) had docked the vessel in wind gusts up to 50 knots."

"The Celebrity Infinity VDR recorded a 40-knot wind gust. At the Ketchikan airport, an anemometer recorded a rooftop wind speed (a measurement taken from a height close to the same height as the Celebrity Infinity’s anemometer) of 50 knots shortly after the Celebrity Infinity docked, and it is likely that the vessel also experienced wind gusts of 50 knots at the time of the docking."

"The pilot told investigators that dropping the starboard anchor slowed the motion of the bow toward the pier. The master said that he then ordered chain to be paid out so the vessel could move forward and toward the dock, but the VDR recording captured the master’s order as “hold the anchor.” According to the pilot, the thrusters and anchor were able to control the bow but “whatever maneuvers they made with the pods weren’t sufficient to hold the ship and it made a hard landing on the dolphins back there.” At 1355, with the after part of the vessel pivoting toward berth 3, the VDR recorded someone shouting, “the stern, the stern!” and, at 1356, the vessel allided with the berth. The force of the allision opened a 9-inch-diameter hole in the vessel’s port side between frames 231 and 233, about 12 feet above the waterline. It also caused the deflection of vessel structural members. The berth suffered extensive damage to its catwalks and structural members. Damage to the berth and vessel was estimated at $1,153,738."

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the Celebrity Infinity’s allision with the dock was the master’s failure to plan, monitor, and execute a safe docking evolution." https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB1736.pdf

If he is a future cruiser on that ship then it is absolutely his business why it happened.

 

He raises legitimate questions that deserves answers,

There is no way a report and reasons/blame would be published in 1 day.... My comment was more for him to do the legwork and find out himself. It likely won't be published on cruise critic unless someone eventually comes across an article or report from who governs/oversees accidents in that part of carribean. It surely will take weeks. I think what has already been shared/published is fine for now. Ship had minimal damage and was inspected and cleared to sail, dock was damaged, ship on way, no inconveniences to passengers or injuries, ship/cruise is on schedule!

Cleared for sailing.

Well, I don't know about reports for all marine accidents, outside of those occurring in the US or Canada that is. We were scheduled out of Venice in late 2016 and our ship hit a rock coming into port at Nice, France three weeks before we were to board. It holed the vessel and flooded three compartments. They took it into wet dock and got it fixed but had to cancel two cruises. We made it, barely. No accident investigation out yet, that I know of.

 

 

 

 

 

Fortunately, we have the NTSB in this country. This collision is close to the one Celebrity had with their Infinity in Ketchikan, except it was the Infinity stern not the bow and wind had a lot to do with it. Here are a few excerpts from the NTSB report concerning Celebrity Cruises' Infinity accident at Ketchikan, plus the link to the NTSB investigation:

 

 

 

"According to the master, Celebrity Cruises’ company safety management system stated the master or staff captain must perform dockings, and the master confirmed to investigators that a pilot had never docked the vessel while he served as master. The staff captain was scheduled to dock the ship on arrival in Ketchikan, and the master told investigators that he was very comfortable with that assignment based on the staff captain’s extensive docking experience. According to the staff captain, he had docked or undocked the Celebrity Infinity and other vessels of its class hundreds of times during his time with Celebrity Cruises. Both the master and the staff captain believed the vessel could be safely docked in 30–35-knot beam winds."

 

 

 

"The pilot told investigators that he was not part of the pre-arrival brief but that he did talk to the master about the expected winds at docking. He said the master assured him they could dock within the parameters being reported to them. The pilot stated the master told him they would come in a bit faster and wider than normal due to the wind. The pilot also stated he told the master that tugboats were available but the master said that “unless the winds were very strong, 30–40 [knots], they would have no problem holding the ship” and that he (the master) had docked the vessel in wind gusts up to 50 knots."

 

 

 

"The Celebrity Infinity VDR recorded a 40-knot wind gust. At the Ketchikan airport, an anemometer recorded a rooftop wind speed (a measurement taken from a height close to the same height as the Celebrity Infinity’s anemometer) of 50 knots shortly after the Celebrity Infinity docked, and it is likely that the vessel also experienced wind gusts of 50 knots at the time of the docking."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The pilot told investigators that dropping the starboard anchor slowed the motion of the bow toward the pier. The master said that he then ordered chain to be paid out so the vessel could move forward and toward the dock, but the VDR recording captured the master’s order as “hold the anchor.” According to the pilot, the thrusters and anchor were able to control the bow but “whatever maneuvers they made with the pods weren’t sufficient to hold the ship and it made a hard landing on the dolphins back there.” At 1355, with the after part of the vessel pivoting toward berth 3, the VDR recorded someone shouting, “the stern, the stern!” and, at 1356, the vessel allided with the berth. The force of the allision opened a 9-inch-diameter hole in the vessel’s port side between frames 231 and 233, about 12 feet above the waterline. It also caused the deflection of vessel structural members. The berth suffered extensive damage to its catwalks and structural members. Damage to the berth and vessel was estimated at $1,153,738."

 

 

 

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the Celebrity Infinity’s allision with the dock was the master’s failure to plan, monitor, and execute a safe docking evolution." https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAB1736.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree with your assessment that these two incidents are very similar.

Infinity was basically at a full stop feet from the pier, and winds pushed her in. That’s fairly obvious from the video without the NTSB report which provides an explanation as to how the decision to dock in high wind conditions, with no tugs was made.

Armonia was was coming at 8-12 knots hundreds of yards out, her anchors deployed in an obviously futile effort. The piers and decks are clear, they knew what was going to happen long before it happened. This one had the potential to be much worse.

I agree that it will take weeks or months to fully understand how and why this happened. But what happened in both cases is fairly obvious from the videos. And what happened is not a ship “Grazing” the pier.

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Ill be sailing to Roatan July 4. Wonder how long it will take to repair the pier?

The Armonia is beside us today in Costa Maya. I might sneak out to see if I can get pics of the damage.

Be interesting to see the photos.