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Getting VERY SICK on a Transatlantic Cruise


Alex NY
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Hi Everyone,

I apologize if this is a silly question but I have been thinking about this for a few days and couldn't sleep well.

I do want to say that I am not paranoid, I have been on 5 cruises in my life-

3 out of Los Angeles (2 - Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Cabo San Lucas, 1 - Ensenada)

1 out of Ft. Lauderdale (Bahamas)

1 out of New York (Canada)

...and this thought did not cross my mind ever on those cruises. Of course they are all close to shore.

To make a long story short, I am going on a transatlantic cruise for the first time in my life (Queen Mary 2 - New York to Southampton:ship: YAY!) I am on an extended vacation and thought it's a very good and interesting way to get to Europe (I plan to do some traveling there) especially considering I am within driving distance of the Brooklyn port.

So what happens if someone gets very sick on board and it happens on 3rd or 4th day when the ship is in the middle of the Atlantic with no ports nearby and too far for helicopters? With that said, I want to explain that I am not talking about a heart condition or someone going on TA with a pre-existing heart or other health condition. I am talking about something that happens unexpectedly like appendicitis where it's not particularly dangerous if diagnosed/removed quickly and fatal if not operated within 2 days.

I realize that thousands of people are on that ship and they don't seem worried about these things but I still decided to register and ask my question as this really worries me. Thanks!

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Because of the speeds she is capable of running--26 knots cruising speed, over 30 knots when necessarily pushed--the Queen Mary 2 is no more out of evacuation range when on a Transatlantic crossing than the average Caribbean cruise sailing from Florida.

 

For the first 48 hours-plus QM2 would divert back to the Canadian Maritimes. Once further east in the voyage she could easily either divert to Iceland, or speed up and be off the coast of Ireland a good day and a half early. In most all cases the ship would get close enough for the patient to be transferred to a Coast Guard cutter or similar evacuation boat. Helicopter evacuations are actually quite rare (which is why the ghouls on here start a thread to morbidly speculate on the unfortunate person's condition whenever one happens) as such a stressful ride substantially decreases the survival rate even when compared to a slower sea evacuation.

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It's a good thing to think about, but as you can do nothing about "unexpected" things....it really doesn't help to worry too much! If a possibility like that distressed you too much, then that sort of cruise isn't for you! If I had existing health issues or was generally in poor health, I wouldn't venture to far from my medical support systems! If I was hale and hearty, and had no medical issues, then you take your chances, if the trip is something you really want to do.

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Because of the speeds she is capable of running--26 knots cruising speed, over 30 knots when necessarily pushed--the Queen Mary 2 is no more out of evacuation range when on a Transatlantic crossing than the average Caribbean cruise sailing from Florida.

 

For the first 48 hours-plus QM2 would divert back to the Canadian Maritimes. Once further east in the voyage she could easily either divert to Iceland, or speed up and be off the coast of Ireland a good day and a half early. In most all cases the ship would get close enough for the patient to be transferred to a Coast Guard cutter or similar evacuation boat. Helicopter evacuations are actually quite rare (which is why the ghouls on here start a thread to morbidly speculate on the unfortunate person's condition whenever one happens) as such a stressful ride substantially decreases the survival rate even when compared to a slower sea evacuation.

 

 

 

This was a very interesting and informative post. Thank you !

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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The medical doctor will decide what is best for the patient.

 

In your example, of appendicitis they can do things so that it does not become emergency surgery. If it was so bad they might have to perform the surgery if they were qualified to do this.

 

Yes, there are other options that we have seen on crossings depending on where the issue happens from coast guard ships to other military ships to helicopters.

 

I agree. Very important to have medical insurance and one should consider a special medical evacuation policy.

 

Keith

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Would statistics put your mind at ease? Figuring 2,000 passengers per one-week crossing, year after year, there are very very few cases in which the care on board is not enough, and evacuation is necessary.

When we've done transatlantics, I liked the fact that if one of us should have unusual symptoms or concerns, the medical center is just a couple of decks away. At home, we would have to decide whether to make a dash for the doctor, call an ambulance.....or wait and see what happens.

Just had another thought. On a ship we are much less likely to fall off a ladder, get hit by a drunk driver, or get bitten by a rabid raccoon.

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I'm a former Commanding Officer of 'deep water' Coast Guard Cutters in both the Atlantic and Pacific so I can speak to this with personal experience of having been on the 'rescue' side of things.

 

- It is entirely possible for a ship to be DAYS away from significant medical help. Often when such an incident befalls a merchant vessel, CG looks for a nearby cruise ship for emergency help .....

 

- In 30 years of CG time I can remember only a small number of cases where this actually became a BIG issue.

 

- As compared to days not so long ago, with today's ability for the cruise ship medico to have internet access, satellite telephone and usually video conferencing the situation is MUCH better than when it was Morris Code, high frequency voice radio or TELEX messages ....

 

- Curious tidbit: I recently heard of a case where an individual had such a medical emergency on a Disney ship. They were told to divert to nearest land with a hospital & USCG would help coordinate help. The individual was transferred by boat to a Havana hospital ...

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Because of the speeds she is capable of running--26 knots cruising speed, over 30 knots when necessarily pushed--the Queen Mary 2 is no more out of evacuation range when on a Transatlantic crossing than the average Caribbean cruise sailing from Florida.

 

For the first 48 hours-plus QM2 would divert back to the Canadian Maritimes. Once further east in the voyage she could easily either divert to Iceland, or speed up and be off the coast of Ireland a good day and a half early. In most all cases the ship would get close enough for the patient to be transferred to a Coast Guard cutter or similar evacuation boat. Helicopter evacuations are actually quite rare (which is why the ghouls on here start a thread to morbidly speculate on the unfortunate person's condition whenever one happens) as such a stressful ride substantially decreases the survival rate even when compared to a slower sea evacuation.

 

lmao not "ghouls" :'):')

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A similar question was posed to one of the medical officers on board the QM2. If the ship was out of helicopter range then the patient would be stabilized and in the case of appendicitis given IV antibiotics. The ship doesn't have an operating theater - which makes sense as a scalpel and a pitching ship are not a good combination. (Larger US Navy ships have an operating theater with a stabilized floor.)

 

It's the medical decision of the chief medical officer to judge the course of action. The stress of a helicopter evacuation is weighed for risk/benefit according to the patient's condition. Usually a patient is transferred to the next land based hospital unless the conditions ashore are so poor that the patient is much better off staying on the ship.

 

I know of two recent cases where the ship diverted out of New York. In once case she came back to New York for a heart attack case and transferred the patient via a police boat in the harbor. Last month she diverted to Halifax where an ambulance met the ship at the pier.

 

It's a risk we all take when sailing a transoceanic voyage. What the ship can do if the "IF" happens is limited. Those with ongoing medical conditions need to take this into consideration.

Edited by BlueRiband
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Because of the speeds she is capable of running--26 knots cruising speed, over 30 knots when necessarily pushed--the Queen Mary 2 is no more out of evacuation range when on a Transatlantic crossing than the average Caribbean cruise sailing from Florida.

 

For the first 48 hours-plus QM2 would divert back to the Canadian Maritimes. Once further east in the voyage she could easily either divert to Iceland, or speed up and be off the coast of Ireland a good day and a half early. In most all cases the ship would get close enough for the patient to be transferred to a Coast Guard cutter or similar evacuation boat. Helicopter evacuations are actually quite rare (which is why the ghouls on here start a thread to morbidly speculate on the unfortunate person's condition whenever one happens) as such a stressful ride substantially decreases the survival rate even when compared to a slower sea evacuation.

 

I always want to know what happened to the person evacuated off a ship I'm on. Not because I'm a ghoul, but just because I'm a fellow human, and I feel sympathetic for them and very fortunate that it didn't happen to me. I find it very comforting if I hear that the person is going to make a full recovery, and I feel sympathy for their family and friends if not.

 

If my work colleague mentions that his mother had to be rushed to hospital, shouldn't I respond with "Gosh, I hope she's ok!" rather than "Gosh, I can't believe this weather we've been having, can you?"

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I am talking about something that happens unexpectedly like appendicitis where it's not particularly dangerous if diagnosed/removed quickly and fatal if not operated within 2 days.

Appendicitis not usually as fatal as that. I know a man who had it for at least a week before it was diagnosed and he's still with us; I don't think his case is unusual.

 

But it's a risk you take. Or not, as the case may be.

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My son is part of the Ca. Air National Guard out of Moffitt field and their wing goes on long offshore rescues,1000 miles+/-, anywhere along the West coast. I'm sure the Air Guard from an Eastern state has long distance rescue resources also.

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I can relate one experience with a happy ending (at least for the ill person aboard). Crown Princess, 2014, round trip LA>South Pacific - left Papeete heading back towards LA on a Friday evening, already delayed a full day due to late supply arrivals. Our trip back to LA was scheduled to be 7 consecutive sea days. On Sunday evening around 9:00, there was an announcement by the Captain that we were turning back because we had a critically ill person. We were too far out for helicopter assistance and there were no military or other ships nearby that could offer the assistance we needed.

 

We arrived at the French Marquesas around 2:00pm on Monday. A 23 year old crew member with a ruptured appendix was tendered ashore, then flown to a hospital. (Note: While appendicitis may not be fatal, a ruptured appendix could very well kill a person.) We later were told that he was recovering well. The ship then resumed the trip to LA, traveling at maximum speed to try to make up as much lost time as possible. The best they could do was get us back to LA a full day late.

 

The real story here is how far Princess went to assist a critically ill passenger, even at enormous expense and inconvenience to other passengers. Over 3000 passengers were a full day late getting back to LA, meaning their travel arrangements were all disrupted. Another 3000 passengers were sitting in LA waiting to board for the next cruise - where would all of them spend the unplanned night? It was a very expensive mess, and a lot of people were very unhappy about the chaos in changing travel plans, but I don't think any of us faulted the decision to put a person's life first in making the decision.

 

Not every story will have a good ending, but the cruise lines will do everything in their power to get a passenger necessary medical assistance.

Edited by Kartgv
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In the emergency we had, with 6 days to go before land, the person was stabilized in the medical centre, and our ship increased speed to 23 knots, meaning we arrived a day early.Relatives were informed and flown out to our destination, so were able to be with their dad and his wife when we landed. This was a southerly TA, so we were a long way from land and indeed, other vessels- the crew only counted 16 ships after leaving Madeira until Barbados. It didn't seem to put off the many hundreds of aged people ( including us) on board.

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actually it is not the call of the on board medico .... again, in my CG time I was directly involved in cases like this.

 

If the medico on board determines outside assist is required/desired, they first convince the Master of the vessel and then the RCC, Rescue Coordination Center, with responsibility for the location is contacted. Today, probably by a satellite phone call for a cruise ship. For the portions of the world where US has agreed by international agreement to be the RCC, USCG gets the call. For much of the north Atlantic this means Coast Guard Atlantic Area (HQ, Portsmouth VA). A Flight Surgeon is quickly brought into the discussion and the 'need' and urgency level is set by the FS as part of the incident team (sometimes the FS says ... not as urgent as they think). After this milestone the case transitions to looking at what response options are AVAILABLE versus the urgency ....

 

btw ... most helicopters have a range measured in hundreds of miles and do not have inflight refueling capability to extend this range. Even the helo's that DO have in flight refueling are still limited by crew endurance versus a fairly low speed. Helo's don't go thousands of miles off shore for a rescue ..... Unless a shipborne helo is around, the helo is not a factor in a mid ocean situation. IF one IS available because a helo carrying ship just HAPPENS to be around .... where are they gonna go with the victim?????

 

A real case. One night while cruising in the Carib between Cuba and Haiti (Windward Passage), with a helo on deck got a call around 1AM about a cruise ship with a pass' with a hot appendix that needed to get to a hospital NOW.

 

I/we got the call fron RCC and verified that from our position versus the cruise ship we could launch the helo and go get the 'person'. Then the helo would return to the cutter and top off with fuel (a 'hot refuel' done with the motor kept running). With a full tank of gas the helo would be just in range to land at US Naval Station Guantanamo where a Navy surgeon would be waiting. (Helo range 300 miles one way, 150 for an out and back, reduce this for hover/hoist time)

 

A number of stars aligned just right that night. We just happened to be in the right place at the right time and the person was being worked on in a couple of hours. Had my ship and helo NOT been there the nearest hospital was Haiti .... or a half day + to get closer to Guantanamo ... and the helo with hoist capability comes from?????

Edited by Capt_BJ
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Our transatlantic last Spring was diverted towards the Azores. We were heading from Miami to Liverpool and someone got very ill. We were basically just a little more than halfway across. Instead of turning North, we headed East- we were within helicopter range of the Azores and the local Navy accompanied a medical helicopter. The helicopter landed on an upper deck, loaded the passenger and took off.

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My son is part of the Ca. Air National Guard out of Moffitt field and their wing goes on long offshore rescues,1000 miles+/-, anywhere along the West coast. I'm sure the Air Guard from an Eastern state has long distance rescue resources also.

 

This ^^^ is exactly correct. I work at the Air Force unit that coordinates all such rescues. Google something along the lines of 'atlantic german sailor rescue' and you'll find an article on just such a rescue we coordinated recently. Generally for long-range rescues, C-130s will fly out and drop PJs (pararescuemen) in the water, who will then board the vessel and either stabilize the patient and remain with them until arrival at a suitable port, or they will stabilize them and prepare them for transfer to another ship or to be lifted out via helo. We work probably one or two long-range rescues every month, and few of them are from cruise ships - but it does happen.

 

If it is life threatening, or causing undue suffering, the US military can coordinate a rescue anywhere. And trust me, I mean anywhere! :)

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actually it is not the call of the on board medico .... again, in my CG time I was directly involved in cases like this.

 

If the medico on board determines outside assist is required/desired, they first convince the Master of the vessel and then the RCC, Rescue Coordination Center, with responsibility for the location is contacted. Today, probably by a satellite phone call for a cruise ship. For the portions of the world where US has agreed by international agreement to be the RCC, USCG gets the call. For much of the north Atlantic this means Coast Guard Atlantic Area (HQ, Portsmouth VA). A Flight Surgeon is quickly brought into the discussion and the 'need' and urgency level is set by the FS as part of the incident team (sometimes the FS says ... not as urgent as they think). After this milestone the case transitions to looking at what response options are AVAILABLE versus the urgency ....

 

btw ... most helicopters have a range measured in hundreds of miles and do not have inflight refueling capability to extend this range. Even the helo's that DO have in flight refueling are still limited by crew endurance versus a fairly low speed. Helo's don't go thousands of miles off shore for a rescue ..... Unless a shipborne helo is around, the helo is not a factor in a mid ocean situation. IF one IS available because a helo carrying ship just HAPPENS to be around .... where are they gonna go with the victim?????

 

A real case. One night while cruising in the Carib between Cuba and Haiti (Windward Passage), with a helo on deck got a call around 1AM about a cruise ship with a pass' with a hot appendix that needed to get to a hospital NOW.

 

I/we got the call fron RCC and verified that from our position versus the cruise ship we could launch the helo and go get the 'person'. Then the helo would return to the cutter and top off with fuel (a 'hot refuel' done with the motor kept running). With a full tank of gas the helo would be just in range to land at US Naval Station Guantanamo where a Navy surgeon would be waiting. (Helo range 300 miles one way, 150 for an out and back, reduce this for hover/hoist time)

 

A number of stars aligned just right that night. We just happened to be in the right place at the right time and the person was being worked on in a couple of hours. Had my ship and helo NOT been there the nearest hospital was Haiti .... or a half day + to get closer to Guantanamo ... and the helo with hoist capability comes from?????

 

More good info. However, helos can, and will, fly further out than 300 miles. We coordinated one in the Pacific recently where the helos had a 500nm range, so we flew them out with a C-130 to provide refueling capabilities to extend their range even further. Coast Guard contacts us frequently (AFRCC) to assist on these. :)

 

Worked another recently near the Azores where the C-130s dropped the PJs, and they stabilized the patients until they could reach an island in the Azores. A small Portuguese military transport aircraft then transported the patient and PJs to the nearest large medical facility on mainland Europe. Multi-service AND multi-national rescue on that one. :)

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1000 maybe

 

versus 1000's .....

 

1000 is at the extreme range and USAF does not hoist as far as I know .... they can drop a PJ which is an EMT or less .. basically a 'corpsman' in Navy speak ....

 

great if you have nothing

 

*****

 

I'm not conjecturing ..... I was the guy ..... if you want to dispute ... good for you. But this was my job ... MY JOB for 30 years. Don't tell me what your friend did ....

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1000 maybe

 

versus 1000's .....

 

1000 is at the extreme range and USAF does not hoist as far as I know .... they can drop a PJ which is an EMT or less .. basically a 'corpsman' in Navy speak ....

 

great if you have nothing

 

*****

 

I'm not conjecturing ..... I was the guy ..... if you want to dispute ... good for you. But this was my job ... MY JOB for 30 years. Don't tell me what your friend did ....

 

Umm...what? Was this addressed to me? I'm not conjecturing. I'm telling you what I DO every day - not my friend, me. I work at the Air Force RCC. I have coordinated all of the rescues I mentioned. MY JOB. I'm not disputing - I was providing updated information. And yes, the Air Force does have hoist capabilities. And you try telling a PJ that they're an 'EMT or less.' :') Not sure what riled you up about what I posted, but maybe I just interpreted that wrong. If not, good day and happy sailing. I hope you never need me to do my job for you.

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Because of the speeds she is capable of running--26 knots cruising speed, over 30 knots when necessarily pushed--the Queen Mary 2 is no more out of evacuation range when on a Transatlantic crossing than the average Caribbean cruise sailing from Florida.

 

For the first 48 hours-plus QM2 would divert back to the Canadian Maritimes. Once further east in the voyage she could easily either divert to Iceland, or speed up and be off the coast of Ireland a good day and a half early. In most all cases the ship would get close enough for the patient to be transferred to a Coast Guard cutter or similar evacuation boat. Helicopter evacuations are actually quite rare (which is why the ghouls on here start a thread to morbidly speculate on the unfortunate person's condition whenever one happens) as such a stressful ride substantially decreases the survival rate even when compared to a slower sea evacuation.

 

Fishywood, thank you, this makes me feel a lot better about it. As I said, I have been on 5 cruises and this question never came up. Chances are if I was going on a Caribbean cruise from Florida this question wouldn't even cross my mind. It came up because sailing across the Atlantic sounds like you would be "in the middle on nowhere" sometime on day 4 or half-way into the trip. Thanks!

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It's a good thing to think about, but as you can do nothing about "unexpected" things....it really doesn't help to worry too much! If a possibility like that distressed you too much, then that sort of cruise isn't for you! If I had existing health issues or was generally in poor health, I wouldn't venture to far from my medical support systems! If I was hale and hearty, and had no medical issues, then you take your chances, if the trip is something you really want to do.

 

Thank you for this valuable advice. I noticed your post count and was amazed-it seems like you have dedicated your life to cruising(?) and to this forum.

I don't have any serious health issues and if I did, I would use my judgment. Actually I am pretty sure if I was in poor health I would not go on this particular cruise.

I was talking about something that can happen to a healthy person of any age, appendicitis being a perfect example-it's not a huge deal if you are onshore close to a major hospital but can be fatal if you are in a location with no surgical abilities. We had a relative in the family who died of ruptured appendix, that is why I might sound a little paranoid.

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