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death trap


bluemug
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Having just come back from Norway cruise aboard "The Ugly Boat" (Britannia) I would like to voice my concerne at the Headliners theater. I went there with SWIMBO and noticed that the side seats port and stbd finished directly at the wall. If any emergency occured requiring evacuation of the theater those sitting near the wall would have to wait until the row started to clear. Those persons near the aisle, if they were mobility challenged, would effectivly block the clearance of the row until they were out of the way. Now you might say that it would be possible to climb over the seats behind, but again the infirm may be in the way.

Wouldn't it be better to remove two seats from the wall end of each row thereby making an entry/exit aisle.

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Not been on the ship but while your observations may be very valid, I am not convinced that the alarmist use of words "death trap" or to call Britannia the "Ugly Boat" is appropriate. If anything is detracts from the issue you want to highlight.

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Not been on the ship but while your observations may be very valid, I am not convinced that the alarmist use of words "death trap" or to call Britannia the "Ugly Boat" is appropriate. If anything is detracts from the issue you want to highlight.

 

I agree. Not the best way to make a point.

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I have cruised on QE2 and in my opinion there was a good looking boat. I have never liked Britannia ever since it first came on the cruise scene. My thoughts about the Headliners theater remain the same. Lets hope it never comes about.

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It for all of us to read the thread.

 

 

Might as suggest to Op to add word “possible” or “probable”(whichever you prefer) to the title.

If you were to go aboard Britannia and look for yourself, then you will be able to see what I mean.

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I was concerned by the theatre on Britannia when we went on her but as my husband pointed out if you are in the middle of the row in the theatre on any ship or even in a theatre or cinema ashore you are in a similar position if there are infirm people between you and and exit. I am one of the annoying people who go to the headliners theatre early so that I can get a seat at the end of a row because I worry about being unable to get out.

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The lower level rows of seats on Azura and Ventura will possibly have disabled passengers at either end, and they have no centre aisle so might create similar bottlenecks to that outlined by the OP.

However I do agree that Britannia's theatre is a step backward from the other 2 big ships, the seats are smaller and less comfortable, and there are less of them even though Britannia has more passengers.

I do hope that P&O have sought out a bit of help in the interior design of their 2 new ships from the Celebrity Solstice designer team, but somehow I doubt it.

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I am sure that P&O will have to have passed no doubt stringent health and safety regulations before being allowed to sail any where.

 

That said no amount of h&s planning has any bearing whatsoever in a real emergency (and I have seen it first hand) people panic and push. Anything that helps to stop bottlenecks is worth mentioning to them.

 

I take it you have shared your concerns with the ship? What did they say.

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If an emergency happened, then the crew will evacuate at walking pace. This is proven to be the safest way to avoid injuries.

Have you ever seen a car catch fire. You dont have long to get out and the ferocity of the blaze is astonishing

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It has been my experience that the back rows are for disabled people. Sadly all to often the seats are taken by able bodied people. I am not going to get into a debate about all of this.

 

One other point. When we have muster before we set sail, the last thing we are asked is to let disabled passengers use the lifts. This seldom happens.

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Have you ever seen a car catch fire. You dont have long to get out and the ferocity of the blaze is astonishing

Cars don't have built-in sprinkler and/or mist systems and their interiors are quite flammable: SOLAS is probably a fair way ahead of car design and construction regulations in that respect. Cars generally don't have trained and equipped fire-fighters on board either.

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Most ships sick either very quickly or quite slowly.

 

If it is the former you are dead no matter where you are sitting, and if it is the latter then you have plenty of time.

 

And if you don't think people will shift in an emergency no matter what, then you have never been in one.

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PicSA,, agree, but as an ex-stewardess, I can tell you that when they panic, they block the exits.

There are also the numpties who must get their carry on bags and cases from the overhead stowage.

But back to Britannia, see us all calmly sat in our seats, the theater filling with noxious smoke and we have a chat with our neighbour while we wait for the trained ships personnel to arrive. I DONT THINK SO. There would be a mass scramble for the exits with the survival of the fittest taking center stage.

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PicSA,, agree, but as an ex-stewardess, I can tell you that when they panic, they block the exits.

I agree, at the first hint of a fire then it will be screaming mad rush to get to the exits. People falling over in the aisles will be trampled, the exits will jam with the crush of the crowd and the old and infirm will be left behind in the rush.

 

Before you all rush to rubbish what I have said just read the reports in the media about the loss of life in panic evacuations, Hillsborough being the classic example. How do I know... I was in fire research for years and you get to read a lot of reports not written for general public release.

 

Peter

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Wouldn't it be better to remove two seats from the wall end of each row thereby making an entry/exit aisle.

 

Your title caught my interest, even though I haven’t sailed this cruiseline. Just want to tell you I have seen this same thing in many theaters on other cruiselines too. Never worried about it and probably won’t now either. Same thing in Movie theaters, churches, arenas. You have your work cut out for you in solving this problem. 😜

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There are also the numpties who must get their carry on bags and cases from the overhead stowage.

But back to Britannia, see us all calmly sat in our seats, the theater filling with noxious smoke and we have a chat with our neighbour while we wait for the trained ships personnel to arrive. I DONT THINK SO. There would be a mass scramble for the exits with the survival of the fittest taking center stage.

 

Sorry, but after the fiasco on Concordia (and I know that P&O are more professional having experienced what they thought was a fire on Britannia) it is hard to have 100% trust anymore.

 

That fiasco had a lot to answer for when it comes to cruisers confidence in the ships' procedures.

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We sailed on Britannia because it was the only british ship that would be in Norway on May 17 (constitution day). I choose my holidays by itinery not the means of getting there.

So then presumably having now sailed on this 'ugly death trap' (your words not mine), we can at least hope not to bump into you pushing your way out as we file orderly towards our muster station.

All cruise ship designs are reviewed fastidiously for safety. The speed at which a ship of this size can physically be evacuated would leave you more than enough time to leave the theatre and reach your muster station before anyone thinks about loading a lifeboat. Indeed you may find that certain features are incorporated specifically to stop you rushing headlong through the ship. Getting out of the theatre quicker might get you a seat in the muster station but will not get you off the ship any faster.

If that unnerves you then I suggest you do not sail on anything large because the evacuation times are likely to be very similar.

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The speed at which a ship of this size can physically be evacuated would leave you more than enough time to leave the theatre and reach your muster station before anyone thinks about loading a lifeboat. Indeed you may find that certain features are incorporated specifically to stop you rushing headlong through the ship. Getting out of the theatre quicker might get you a seat in the muster station but will not get you off the ship any faster.

 

MS Estonia - sank within five minutes of the alarm and the few passengers that survived ignored the muster points to find the fastest way off the ship.

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