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Is the NCL Joy really that bad for Americans??


TravelingSmurf
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Perfect example of political correctness run amok. Posters were afraid to not use the term Asian so they just used it to describe the mainland communist Chinese and their behaviors. I knew this behavior was referring to mainlanders because I understand demographics and cultural nuances.

 

It's really time everyone learned that's it's ok to understand this stuff

 

I don't think it's politically correctness run amok. "Oriental" is the non-PC term. That's not the issue here. It's good that people learn it's ok to understand this stuff, I just don't think worrying about being PC is really the issue here. It's just being specific and not using such a broad term. There's nothing really inherently political about the term Asian. It's just that it's a really broad area and when you're just talking about mainland Chinese (even though that's a lot of them numerically), lumping the rest of Asia in with them is likely going to annoy the rest and oddly broad. It's like talking about a redneck KKK person from the US South or anarchist Antifa person (from wherever they're from in the US) and referring to them as a North American. Sure, it's technically correct, but the rest of North Americans aren't going to like being associated with them and wondering why you're using such a really broad term and including them with these people.

 

Plus, why would you use such an oddly broad term as North American? At least if you had stuck to calling the KKK or Antifa as "American", you at least drill down to the proper country and don't unnecessarily include Canadians and Mexicans, just like in this thread by just calling the mainland Chinese people as just "Chinese." As people have pointed out, the ultra polite Japanese are very different in mannerisms than those mainland Chinese everyone is complaining about and the Japanese would not appreciate being lumped into the same category. But also, like how America is a REALLY big country with tons of people, the "Chinese" spread all over Asia so since we're talking about learning, might as well talk about how not all Chinese are the same as the ones in mainland China. The US has a law agreeing to protect another China country (Taiwan) and the Taiwanese would most definitely be offended if one were to lump them in with the mainlanders.

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I don't think it's politically correctness run amok. "Oriental" is the non-PC term. That's not the issue here. It's good that people learn it's ok to understand this stuff, I just don't think worrying about being PC is really the issue here. It's just being specific and not using such a broad term. There's nothing really inherently political about the term Asian. It's just that it's a really broad area and when you're just talking about mainland Chinese (even though that's a lot of them numerically), lumping the rest of Asia in with them is likely going to annoy the rest and oddly broad. It's like talking about a redneck KKK person from the US South or anarchist Antifa person (from wherever they're from in the US) and referring to them as a North American. Sure, it's technically correct, but the rest of North Americans aren't going to like being associated with them and wondering why you're using such a really broad term and including them with these people.

 

 

 

Plus, why would you use such an oddly broad term as North American? At least if you had stuck to calling the KKK or Antifa as "American", you at least drill down to the proper country and don't unnecessarily include Canadians and Mexicans, just like in this thread by just calling the mainland Chinese people as just "Chinese." As people have pointed out, the ultra polite Japanese are very different in mannerisms than those mainland Chinese everyone is complaining about and the Japanese would not appreciate being lumped into the same category. But also, like how America is a REALLY big country with tons of people, the "Chinese" spread all over Asia so since we're talking about learning, might as well talk about how not all Chinese are the same as the ones in mainland China. The US has a law agreeing to protect another China country (Taiwan) and the Taiwanese would most definitely be offended if one were to lump them in with the mainlanders.

 

 

 

You have summed this up very nicely. If you want to see this in action start watching the Hong Kong news as CNY approaches they will be talking about the Chinese coming to Hong Kong and destroying things. I have a friend who opened Shanghai Disneyland and said with in days it was a mess.

 

 

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I've got a ranting relative on Facebook. I do see it every day even though I was born in America. lol

 

That said, there are plenty of mainland Chinese who are very embarrassed by the awful behavior of their compatriots. The only problem is, with over a billion people, there are so many misbehaving ones that other countries can't help but generalize due to the sheer numbers. And a cruise ship, a confined space, full of them? Holy smokes. I mean, they managed to destroy Shanghai Disney in a couple of hours. If you go on the NCL Joy and you're not used to them, that's probably not going to be a pleasant cruise.

 

Go visit Hong Kong (not Schenzhen), Taiwan, or Singapore for Chinese culture. :p Actually, I think Shanghai is pretty good for Western visitors. Beijing would be on the list, except I still think their pollution is too out of control still.

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Hi Herdingdogmom- Thank you for your reply. We have checked into other cruise lines but we were interested in trying out the Joy. It looks like the ship itself and the food options are AWESOME!! Also, we are going to be in Shanghai so we were looking for something that sailed out of there on the dates we are in China.

 

It seems to me that your best bet would to avoid the Windjammer, looking into a specialty dining package,

and take the stairs.

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Thank you so much for your response Pitzel. I appreciate you giving me details of your experience. I can see how that could be overwhelming. I do really like having my own personal space and I can get frustrated when it’s not given to me. That is definitely something we will take in the consideration. Thank you so much!

Been on several cruises. I found the Chinese people are very pushy and rude.

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Thank you for posting this. I am studying Mandarin Chinese in college and thought this may be an amazing way to hone my language skills, but I wasn't considering these other factors people are bringing up.

 

If you watch Chinese media, it's interesting to see the accents come into play. If you're in America, news anchors and the like have this "generic" accent, whereas different regions in America have more local accents. British TV also tends to have a more "posh" I guess London based accent, with those who have more local accents getting their accents pointed out (like Ant and Dec with their Geordie accents or a lot of Game of Thrones actors adopting that Northern England accent).

 

Chinese media hasn't fully adopted an accent, but I've noticed it's centralizing a bit (news and movies/tv). I dunno where your teacher is from but there tends to be two distinct types. Older ones tend to be from Taiwan, which has a more "crisp" way of speaking Mandarin. About 10+ years ago, the teachers who came to America from China had a real thick Beijing accent, which REALLY rolls their Rs and slurs the words more in comparison. I think they exaggerated it as a matter of national pride. It reminded me of the Deep South way of speaking English, stretching syllables out and stuff. It's now settling into a sort of happy medium between the two, but I'd say slightly more on the Taiwan crisper side.

 

At least it's just a matter of accents though. Cantonese is even more weird. The news speaks in a "formal" manner which matches the written subtitles exactly. There's a "conversational" Cantonese where it doesn't match up with the written Chinese. Native speakers can switch between the two. However, people outside who learn it (mostly) via listening to older relatives talk sometimes only learn one or the other. This leads to amusing situations where two American-Born Chinese Cantonese speakers can both "speak" Cantonese, but still don't understand each other in a lot of situations.

 

Then you've got the ultra-nationalistic Taiwanese who will only speak Taiwanese/Fukinese and treat you differently or pretend not to understand Mandarin. Or all the very different sounding dialects like Shanghainese, Fukinese, Toi San, etc.

 

As I was saying, China's already a big enough place with enough internal differences. Using the term "Asian" is just oddly broad in an extreme way, like calling a US Southerner or a French only Quebecan a "North American". I guess it's a little bit like the Hispanic/Latino dispute, except both of those terms span multiple countries while Chinese vs Asian is specifically a single country/ethnicity vs a whole Continent with multiple ethnicities and countries.

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We are considering on cruising on the Joy at the end of December. We booked airline tickets back in July with the intention of cruising but after reading posts saying Americans probably wouldn't like it we decided not to. Now we are considering it again since the price is still the same (we are a family of 4. My husband and I are in our early 40's and we have a 14 & 16 year old). What exactly is so different cruising on a ship intended for Asian passengers versus one for American passengers? I have seen mention that it is very different but how? I watched a video that someone mentioned and at the very end of the video they guy mentioned crowds, line jumping, people rushing around, and throwing trash around but is that it? How bad is it? If we go with that mindset I think that is something I can deal with as we tend to keep to ourselves. My main concern is that we do not speak any Chinese (we have apps on our phones but haven't been very good at using them). I know the ship is a Mandarin speaking crew but I imagine that some of them will know English especially if they have worked on any other NCL cruises. Anyone have tangible information about what it is like to sail on a cruise intended for Chinese passengers?
I'm so happy that you asked this question. I just seen the race track and know my family would love this ship.

 

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I am glad to have found this thread if only to see that our experiences were what some others experienced. I spent three weeks on an RCL ship where there were large groups of Asians. To be frank, the desire to go to most Asian countries (Japan excluded) has been greatly diminished to the point of not even considering one.

 

First, it was the most segregated cruise experience we have ever had. The Aussies, Americans and other nationalities mixed easily, but the Asians did not. The lack of queuing and coldness/sternness was what first struck me. They tend to look out for one another, reserving large areas just for their large groups. One situation was pretty shocking. The ship offered barbecued ribs and the Asian men worked together to hand the tongs only to one another. They did not leave them on the table/plate for the next person.

 

Off shore, on excursions, large Asian groups tend to take over areas in order to get the large number of pictures each wants to take, blocking others out until they are finished. You are forced to play "let's get there early to beat the crowds on the Asian tour buses."

 

The spitting and poor hygiene was perhaps the most startling. We were on a third world island, much poorer than China or South Korea, and the restroom experience was shocking. It seems that the poor locals had to go through great efforts to educate the Asian tourists to avoid squatting on top of a toilet seat and to actually put their toilet paper in the toilet, not in the can next to them. There was a large sign on the inside of the stall with clear visual diagrams about what not to do. Still, the cans were overflowing with soiled (ewwww) toilet paper. I wish that I had taken a photo of that sign, but I was in such a hurry to get out of that disgusting toilet. It occurred to me that it was pretty sad that a third world country had to educate these tourists.

 

We have met and entertained many Chinese university students for over twenty years and have never seen these problems with them. They are polite, well mannered and very clean. It seems that the problem is with the generation that is more middle-aged to elderly.

 

The TP thing is common practice in many areas of the world where the plumbing is not so great. Friend had relative and her husband from SA visiting and couldn't figure out where the unpleasant odor was coming from. You guessed it.

I will say that when we took a land tour in China that we found the people to be the most friendly people we have met anywhere in the world. The young people speak English and love to talk with you. Outside of the cities many young people ask for you to have your picture taken with them.

That said, I'd choose another way or another ship to see that area of the world. The group mentality aboard a ship in a confined area would not be pleasant. Although no spitting or toilet problems were reported, we had a very unpleasant cruise on HAL out of FLL one year due to a large group....There was pushing and shoving and running people down with jazzies, lol.

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If you wish to go to China, I recommend you to not do their cruises. I was on the Ovation Of The Seas recently and I asked the next cruise manager who was from China whether does he recommend us doing a round-trip cruise from China. Guess what he said? "No." We were more better off sticking to round trip cruises from Singapore and elsewhere.

 

I noticed the talk about Genting Dream. Yes it is currently doing round-trip sailings from Singapore and you might get a better crowd but it is still naturally an Asian Ship. They class themselves as Asian Premium Crusie Line. Not sure how much of that is true. Genting Dream being an Asian cruise lines, is marketed and has all things catered to the Asian market. 3 Decks of Casinos, Food mostly being Asian in the MDR and Buffet. Entertainment catered to Asians too. You might love the other things though, it is somewhat a similar design to the Breakaway class on the NCL. If you do really wish to try Genting Dream, I will suggest you take one of their suites as you get the "Haven" and you will have a butler service too. Same goes with Joy, take one of their Haven Suites.

 

Being an Asian, I will really love to try Norwegian Joy due to its race track and the main thing which is NCL. But as harsh as it sounds, I will not do it round-trip from China. I have witness the horrible things that the PRC did while on the Sapphire Princess just last week.

 

I will suggest sticking to Norwegian Jewel or other cruise lines.

 

Well apparently for the situation regarding the poor manners of Chinese, it does sticks into you when despite the fact that you are not from China, you are class as being one of them which falls into areas which westerners mostly described. Pity isn't it?

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I'm jealous of your upcoming cruise, I'd love to do an immersion cruise. I don't have any cruise specific tips since I haven't done one. But DH & I toured Shanghai & Beijing (on our own) about 5 months ago.

 

As everyone said, they have no personal space. But coming from a country that has has a couple of the most populated cities in the world, they can't afford personal space. They want to cram in every open space and they don't believe in lines. But what I did notice on their culture vs Americas is they are quiet. Kids are quiet and seem more well behaved. In 2 weeks in China, I didn't notice one child have a temper tantrum (and we spent a few days at Shanghai Disney where in America, that happens every few minutes). Adults weren't boisterous like you see around America.

 

Depending on what your family looks like you might be a tourist attraction on the ship. DH and I are stereotypical Americans to the China (tall, thin, DH has short dark blonde hair and I have long light blonde hair). Chinese wanted our pictures with us in numerous places. On a ferry in Shanghai, one mom even put her son on DH's lap to take a picture of them together.

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That said, there are plenty of mainland Chinese who are very embarrassed by the awful behavior of their compatriots....I mean, they managed to destroy Shanghai Disney in a couple of hours.

 

If you pay attention at Shanghai Disney Resort, you will notice the management and many cast members, trained by Walt Disney Parks & Resorts which operates the park*, becoming very frustrated by their countrymen. Several times, I felt they treated me better as an obvious westerner.

 

*Technically, DP is the majority owner in the company that operates the resort.

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  • 1 month later...
OP - So how was it?

The following is from one of the Joy Roll Call during the holiday, some useful info & insights ... page 2 thru 3. Had to dig for this but I found it ...

 

Not sure if OP wrote up any review or doing one and/or updatd with info, menu or dailies (if any)

 

One of the takeaway - learn & practice how to eat with a pair of chopsticks and soup spoon, just in case (or, will need to ask server for fork/spoon/knife) ... fine with congees & rice noodles. A little tricky with scrambled eggs & bacon, unless it's on a bun or bread roll.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2518362&page=2

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300 DTC must have been on the same Baltic cruise we were on. That outline is exactly right! One day we were having supper in the buffet, a family sat down at our table, there were 6 empty seats. Literally, they put their faces into the plate and started eating, it reminded me of a dog eating out of his bowl! Another time an older oriential couple shared our table, took their soup bowl in their hands and just guzzeled the soup. I saw one man put his finger in the salad dressings tasting them! Be prepared!🙀

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.... Another time an older oriential couple shared our table, took their soup bowl in their hands and just guzzeled the soup. I saw one man put his finger in the salad dressings tasting them! Be prepared!🙀

You do realize this is common in many countries, and not necessarily bad manners simply because most in the USA don't eat that way? The big pieces are eaten with chopsticks, and the broth is drank from the bowl.

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Princess has this figured out.

 

During "Chinese Season" non-Chinese mainland cannot book. They know it is better for everyone concerned not to mix the demographics.

Got off the Sapphire earlier this month. The stories the crew related would curl your hair. Would never even consider a cruise dominated by (or even largely populated) by mainlanders.

 

Just spent a week in Luang Prabang for Chinese New Year. 75%+ mainlanders (they can easily drive there). Truly an experience.

 

Yes, it is a cultural thing. And yes, many are new to traveling. And yes, things will probably change in the future. But not with me onboard.

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You do realize this is common in many countries, and not necessarily bad manners simply because most in the USA don't eat that way? The big pieces are eaten with chopsticks, and the broth is drank from the bowl.

 

Or the broth is eaten with the spoon that is ALWAYS supplied with noodle dishes.

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Or the broth is eaten with the spoon that is ALWAYS supplied with noodle dishes.

It wasn't ALWAYS when I traveled there. I'd say about half the time. Even when visiting Chinatown in major cities, unless you are visiting a place that is frequented by Americans, you might have to ask for a spoon. My point is, just because it's not the way you eat does not make it wrong. I'll never forget the looks of disgust I got on my first trip to Europe at age 17 when I grabbed a slice of pizza and began eating it with my hands just like at home. I learned fast! This is the same thing.

Edited by LrgPizza
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The following is from one of the Joy Roll Call during the holiday, some useful info & insights ... page 2 thru 3. Had to dig for this but I found it ...

 

Not sure if OP wrote up any review or doing one and/or updatd with info, menu or dailies (if any)

 

One of the takeaway - learn & practice how to eat with a pair of chopsticks and soup spoon, just in case (or, will need to ask server for fork/spoon/knife) ... fine with congees & rice noodles. A little tricky with scrambled eggs & bacon, unless it's on a bun or bread roll.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2518362&page=2

 

Thanks mking! It certainly sounds like... an experience.:)

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Being an Asian, I will really love to try Norwegian Joy due to its race track and the main thing which is NCL. But as harsh as it sounds, I will not do it round-trip from China. I have witness the horrible things that the PRC did while on the Sapphire Princess just last week.

 

Well apparently for the situation regarding the poor manners of Chinese, it does sticks into you when despite the fact that you are not from China, you are class as being one of them which falls into areas which westerners mostly described. Pity isn't it?

 

I'm gonna be on the Norwegian Bliss towards the end of summer. Can't wait to try the race track.

 

Yeah, Chinese and many other Asian nationalities can pick out the mainland Chinese. If you're not mainland Chinese, it is annoying to be lumped in. But, quite a large number of mainland Chinese are aware of their reputation and do their best to tell their countrymen to behave... but there are just too many of the "bad" ones. It's just a numbers game. Even if the # of bad ones are just a small percentage, there are so many mainland Chinese that others can't help but notice the bad apples.

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What you consider "pushy and rude" can be quite normal in other cultures - Don't judge based on your own culture

 

The previous poster was sharing their own experience. Not sure the preaching is necessary. I've traveled in China several times and didn't have a problem, but I did find some people rude. Maybe same as in the US.

 

I had good experiences. Talked to a whole group of young Chinese boys and girls studying English. Went to a tailor and ordered suits, had a good business transaction. Flew and drove to many parts of China and had a good time.

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