If You're Not In A Wheelchair? What Does A Handicapped Person Look Like?

If it's not obvious to your eyes, (if you're lucky to have good vision), what a handicapped person looks like? Think!

• Could they have MD or MS and it's not really visible, except when they try to get up from a chair or walk without shaking and loosing their balance?

• Could they be deaf with MS and get dizzy with great frequency and require rails and bars to help themselves up from the toilet?

• Could they have degenerating discs in their spine or weakened bones in their feet and legs but still they walk and make every effort to look whole?

DON'T MAKE THE MISTAKE of pre-judging anyone! If they pull into the handicap space or use a handicap cabin but are not in a wheelchair, don't assume they're able bodied! You may not see the scar that runs up their spine from 4 different spinal surgeries or the scar un their hair from brain surgery.........

Be tolerant, don't assume! :)

Roz

I agree with you completely. People can be so rude and hurtful, and then when u have to explain why u need that chair more than the 3 yr old who is climbing all over it, they get contrite, or condescending. Makes me sick

Shirl:mad:

Having a bad day.:o

What you say has a lot of truth in it. However, please bear in mind that the person in the wheelchair van with a side ramp absolutely cannot park anywhere else but in that disabled zone. It's not just a convenience for them, it's not that it would be difficult for them to park elsewhere. There is no other space for them. As far as cruise cabins go, bear in mind that the person who is truly confined to a wheelchair cannot go into any non-accessible cabin if they cannot fit through the narrow door or if there is a threshold. At all. Again, not a convenience but a necessity - they have no choice if they want to be on the cruise.

My wife, who is the disabled one in our family, cuts a lot more slack to the relatively less disabled than I do.

The problem is that there is a continuum of "disabledness," and the present system caters to either the able bodied or the disabled - it is a binary system with no in-between. Thus the accessible cabin has both a roll-in shower and a special telephone for the hearing impaired; you perforce consume both when you need only one. A very imperfect system, but a lot better than having no provisions for the disabled at all.

- Richard

As a full-time wheelchair user, I see red when a driver pulls into the last available handicapped spot, jumps out of their truck and runs into Wal-Mart. I wonder who they conned to get a disabled plate?

Your responses are ALL well taken....I travel with a huge service dog and I too, need that extra room on the side just to let her out and into my vehicle. I have had to hand her off to a stranger to hold, while I pull my car out of a parking space that did not allow me to open her door enough to let her in! It is so frustrating, especially when I'm trying desperately to get her off of the hot asphalt so as not to burn her feet!

Again, I promise when I see you in your wheelchair/scooter I will pay attention to making your life easier by making room in the elevator for you...and if you need my help I'll be there for you!

If we can't be "THERE" for each other who will be? :)

Roz

Roz,

Have you yet cruised with your SD? If so can you tell me how the facilities were for her? Was the ship staff accommodating? What sort of documentation was required? Thanks so much!

Melissa

I have traveled with my service dog. They required proof that she is a service dog, shot records and travel cert. from vet. The do need some info from you as to what they need to provide such as a sod area or litter box for her bathroom and such. The best way to find out for sure is to contact special needs dept. Rules do vary according to the ship and where the ship goes. Some places require quarentining the animal so be sure to check it out. You must also check with each port to find out what they require for the dog to enter their country even if you aren't getting off of the ship.

Thanks so much for letting me know! What kind of proof did they want as far as the SD being an SD goes? Will someone with an owner trained SD have to jump through hoops to be allowed onboard, or possibly be refused?

HHFamily: This is precisely what you need for a certified service dog.

1. Liscense/certification from the facility who initially trained your service dog, with a picture of both of you on it. It has her CA. service dog number on it, along with her tattoo number (inside her right ear), and, the expiration date of her certification; which must be renewed every 1 to 3 years depending on the dogs age, etc., etc.

2. Immunization history, (I must be sure that she is current on all her shots). From her Vet.

3. She wears a blue/yellow service vest, at all times, which says "Hearing Dog" on the top of it. It has 2 zippered pouches on each side, which carry her toilet bags and extra money (for me). This vest makes it more than obvious that she is a "service" animal and needs to be treated as such!

I have NEVER had to put her in quarantine. She has been to Mexico (3 times), Canada, Alaska and Europe. Once the authorities see her all of her up-to-date documentation and her behavior, they have no doubt how valuable she is! :)

I have been asked, at the airport, to display just what she does as a service dog, and I'm more than pleased to show her off! Her vest gets "patted" down, just as if it were her suit. :p

The ships treat her very well. I am supplied with a 4x4x2h wooden box that is placed in a very inconspicious place on one of the decks, usually where only the crew can go. They put cypress or cedar mulch on top of sand, in the box. I go to the guest relations desk, as soon as I board the ship, they tell me where the box is located, I introduce her to it, I give the command for toileting and waalaa, our cruise is complete! She goes to the dining room with me, to the movies, to the pool, wherever I go she goes! We're partners!

My dog was puppy raised and trained for 14 months by Canine Companions for Independence, in Santa Rosa, CA. I had to be on a "waiting list" for 2 years before I could go for training (2 weeks) and graduate with her!

She is a pure black lab, 6 years old. I have had her for 4 years. She alerts me to noises in my environment; home/work/life, etc.

I hope this helps. And, if we're ever lucky enough to cross paths on a cruise, please stop by and say hello to "Brenda" the wonder dog! ;)

Happy Sails to You,

Roz

HHFamily: This is precisely what you need for a certified service dog.

1. Liscense/certification from the facility who initially trained your service dog, with a picture of both of you on it. It has her CA. service dog number on it, along with her tattoo number (inside her right ear), and, the expiration date of her certification; which must be renewed every 1 to 3 years depending on the dogs age, etc., etc.

2. Immunization history, (I must be sure that she is current on all her shots). From her Vet.

3. She wears a blue/yellow service vest, at all times, which says "Hearing Dog" on the top of it. It has 2 zippered pouches on each side, which carry her toilet bags and extra money (for me). This vest makes it more than obvious that she is a "service" animal and needs to be treated as such!

 

I have NEVER had to put her in quarantine. She has been to Mexico (3 times), Canada, Alaska and Europe. Once the authorities see her all of her up-to-date documentation and her behavior, they have no doubt how valuable she is! :)

 

I have been asked, at the airport, to display just what she does as a service dog, and I'm more than pleased to show her off! Her vest gets "patted" down, just as if it were her suit. :p

 

The ships treat her very well. I am supplied with a 4x4x2h wooden box that is placed in a very inconspicious place on one of the decks, usually where only the crew can go. They put cypress or cedar mulch on top of sand, in the box. I go to the guest relations desk, as soon as I board the ship, they tell me where the box is located, I introduce her to it, I give the command for toileting and waalaa, our cruise is complete! She goes to the dining room with me, to the movies, to the pool, wherever I go she goes! We're partners!

 

My dog was puppy raised and trained for 14 months by Canine Companions for Independence, in Santa Rosa, CA. I had to be on a "waiting list" for 2 years before I could go for training (2 weeks) and graduate with her!

 

She is a pure black lab, 6 years old. I have had her for 4 years. She alerts me to noises in my environment; home/work/life, etc.

 

I hope this helps. And, if we're ever lucky enough to cross paths on a cruise, please stop by and say hello to "Brenda" the wonder dog! ;)

 

Happy Sails to You,

Roz

My dog and I have been on Carnival, NCL, RCCL and all that I had to provide is a copy of her diploma and have her shot records. She does wear a vest that denotes service dog. Stop do not pet. She is microchiped as needed to go to some caribbean ports. She has been patted down in the airport but never had to display what she can do. She is a medical response dog... alerts to pending conditions such as seizures and such. Valentine is only 10 pounds and is a Japanese Chin. She started displaying her special talent at the age of 10 weeks. Very early for this type of service. Then she just more or less had to be trained for signals. She knows long before I do.:D Valentine is litter tained like a cat would be so I just bring along what I need for her bathroom and just keep it in my cabin. I have never had to have her quarantined either but if you take them to Hawaii and a few other places you can run in to this. Be sure to check the ports that you intend to visit. They can be extremely hard to get answers from but be persistant. I didn't know that I had to do this on our first cruise with her and the staff had a really hard time finding out if I could even get off of the ship with her. The staff is great with animals they see so few. The only problem that I have is EVERYONE wants to pet her. She goes everywhere with me also. I have gotten a lot of questions and rude comments from other passengers that "want to bring along their dog too". She is unusual at only 10 pounds but easier to travel with and really how big does she need to be to give a signal. I have heard that they are starting to use the smaller dogs for a lot more areas such as the hearing impaired! Maybe we will meet up on a cruise Roz. Would love to meet you and your partner.:D

Valentine's Mom: How wonderful it must be to be able to pick her up and hold her on your lap. "Brenda" weighs 70 lbs, is black and very obvious! She goes under the table at restaurants and most people never know she's even there, until she comes out! CCI used to use Corgies for hearing impaired but men did not like them. They wanted a more masculine looking dog! "Go figure"!

"Brenda" was trained to do so much more than just "alert" me. She can open doors, drawers, pick up things off of the floor and carry light things in her mouth. She has already used the "get" command for picking up things that I have dropped and couldn't pick up! She's amazing! This will come in very handy as I get older!

Enjoy "Valentine", she's truly a gift in your life!

To the poster who wants to "personally" train their dog. Call a good agency such as Canine Companions for Independence, National Headquarters 707.577.1700. Ask them how one goes about getting their own dog certified/trained. Maybe it's easier than we think! Getting dogs into public places and becoming part of the ADA Laws set down by Congress was truly an uphill battle that has been fought for more than 35 years, maybe even more!

I feel so lucky that so many fought so hard for me! And, others like me! :p

Happy Sails,

Roz

Thanks for the wonderful replies. Sounds like you both have a fantastic companion! Thanks to the ADA, and through hard work of individuals, and organizations such as Access Now, we have in this country the ability to choose to train our own assistance animals, or have them trained by a private trainer. CCI is a WONDERFUL organization, but there are many who do not want to wait two or more years for a SD, or for other various reasons choose to have a privately trained SD. What I am hoping is that the cruise industry is willing to recognize that. In dealing with US companies I know my rights within the ADA, which includes not having to show proof that our service animals are what we say they are, but I have no idea how those things work when dealing with not necessarily US companies. I have the ability to set up so that I can be considered a dog training 'school', but choose not to because I LOVE the fact that we have the right not to have to show proof that we are honest. However, I am aware that not all countries have such a great protection and I am not sure what applies where. I am glad this topic came up, it's a good reason for me to do some research, and a great excuse to talk about two of my passions at once (SD's and CRUISING). Also a great way to meet some great and helpful people! Thanks!

HHFamily: There are NO MORE WAITING LISTS for Hearing Dogs from CCI. They are encouraging us to tell everyone that they have a surplus of Trained/Certified/Hearing Dogs. If you know someone who is interested in one of these amazing animals please tell them to call: CCI, Santa Rosa, Ca. - 707.577.1700. CCI is all over the United States, not just in California.

You must be a pretty wonderful person to be able to do what you do with training dogs. Keep it up!

Roz

Wow, fantastic news! I will most definately spread the word!!

 

Be tolerant, don't assume! :)

 

Roz

Roz, Very well said. Thank you.

Richard, While I fully understand the needs of someone confined to a chair, please keep in mind that many people with leg and spinal problems NEED that cabin and parking space too. If DH can't open the van door to the fullest he can't get in or out of the vehicle. The worst is when he has enough space to get out but when he comes back someone has parked so close that he can't get back in. In a regular cabin he would not be able to use the bathroom because of the step and the space would not be wide enough for him to get out of bed.

As Roz said, we need to be there for each other.

Hi Gang,

I am delighted that this thread has addressed such important issues for Persons With Disabilities (PWD).

I recently did a 21 day repo Canal Transit from FLL to YVR on the Coral Princess and befriended a couple of folks fm Florida, one of who had early stages of MS and moved around in a powered chair (confined is not a word to use here). Up until a few yrs ago Jerry was able to move around without the aid of his chair but as the condition has progressed he finds that the chair is a necessity.

I think it's important for people to know that Jerry does not have a handicap. He has a disability and the handicap is the chair he must now use because he can no longer do the things he enjoyed before it came a necessity.

On the Coral Princess, I was somewhat bothered by the fact that while the cabins for "handicapped" (bad term) are spacious and have support bars etc in the washrooms and shower areas, other facilities are lacking onboard a ship that is still relatively young in the industry. There are no power doors for entry into public washrooms or doors onto the outdoor deck areas. This makes it very difficult for persons in chairs (powered or otherwise) to get around.

When several issues were addressed to the head office of Princess, the response certainly was not supportive of making the vessel an inclusive place for all passengers. The letter noted that disembarking at ports would be difficult for persons in chairs and that transfers might be required. Fine but transport for PWD was non-existent for shore excursions, yet Jerry and friends managed to go ashore in Acapulco and get a "handicapped van" to take them all around ACA for $40/person for the day. Needless to say they were delighted.

With the "baby boomer" generation aging, more and more persons are self-identifying as having disabilities. I wonder if the cruise industry remembers what demographic age group pays their salaries.

I certainly hope that the cruise industry moves away form providing "lower class" inside cabins for PWD and equip vessels with a more varied cabin selection for PWD, and properly equipped for the mobility, hearing and sight impaired.

I appreciate the remarks regarding unseen disabilities. I am in the field of Emplyment Equity in Canada (Equal Opportunity in the USA) and one of the most invisible disabilities is buried deep in the hearts and minds of soldiers around the world...that is Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, so, as has been said previously, when you see someone who seems to "look" healthy with a sticker for "Handicapped Parking" don't jump to conclusions....you don't know what that person is going through. On the other hand, if you do not have a disability and you don't have a sticker or plate designating authority to park, then when you come out of the supermarket or any other store for that matter and you are "illegally parked" then don't cry the blues when your cars been towed/impounded.

Similarly persons who have stickers/plates must bear some responsibility to ensure that they are highly visible when so parked.

Have a great day everyone and I hope that PWD will continue, as the rest of us do to enjoy cruising the oceans of the world, and that eventually cruiselines will get their act together rather than using the old excuse that crew are there to help.

Ciao for now!!!

By the way, the ADA does not require service dogs to be certified. A service dog is defined by the person who uses the dog, not by some outside agency. You can train your own dog. Cruise lines may require a certification for now, but when the ADA is finally applied to cruise lines (it is not now) you likely will no longer have to have some official agency give that certification.

http://www.deltasociety.org/ServiceInformationNsdc.htm

I love this thread. I would like to see more threads on here about traveling with service dogs. My daughter received her service dog 3 weeks ago. We are new to this whole situation. In December we are cruising on the Sovereign doing a 4 night, 3 night and 4 night; all back to backs. I am nervous about how this will be with a service dog. She is a 60 pound golden retriever. Nassau is our only port. Could someone walk me thru what I need to do? Is anything different because we will be there 3 times? And may I ask how do you prepare your dog to accept a 4 foot square as a relief area? Currently "Suzanne" has our entire back yard. Any tips or insights are very much appreciated. I need all the info I can get. Thanks.

I forgot to mention that you may e-mail me privately at pmfan21@yahoo.com if you feel that it would be better to do so.

cruisinfromcanada: It needed to be said! Thanks for your input!

captainron: I totally understand the "stepping up" and "door accessibility problems"! I think the cruiselines are slow in getting "it" but I do think they will become better at it! Thanks for adding to the thread!

Splinter: I don't know if you have a service dog or not. But, without "Brenda's" license and the ADA behind me, my credibility goes way down! It's different for the blind (they are obvious). I look like a strappingly healthy woman, on the outside. I'm deaf, that's not something anyone can see! I have only been really pushed for Brenda's actual (paper) license 3 times in our history together! The back of her license states the law written down from the ADA. It surely helps! Can't hurt! Also, I don't want to see a lot of "wannabee's", with dogs, that are not properly trained

jeoprodizing it for all of us, who went to the trouble to be trained and certified! Thanks for all the info.

pmfan: Congratualtions to you and especially your daughter on her very special gift of a "service dog"! The cruiseline will have a "special needs" office, you will need to contact them and let them know about Suzanne. I believe your taking RCCL, their number is 800.722.5472 Ext. 34492.

They will ask for Suzanne's license number, vaccination record from your vet and the permit number or tattoo number (if she has it). You fax it to them and on that fax let them know about your dining preference, as well!

The box they provide is 4'x4' (wooden), it's about 2' high. My dog usually goes to the bathroom on grass. On the ship they will provide a mulch (cypress or cedar), they're best because they don't draw flies or bugs. They usually pour some sand for the base and spread the mulch on top.

****Keeping Suzanne on leash, walk her to the box (when you enter the ship go to guest relations and ask them where the box has been set up) and simply walk her into the box, while she's sniffing around say the command for toileting, mine is "hurry", I say it a few times and she just goes. By the second time we go there she knows exactly what to do without my using any command. She just steps into the box and waalah! I don't have to say anything, anymore!

Bring along some plastic bags, Petco sells them, in rolls, they're blue or black and there's lots on each roll (well worth the $$). Don't expect the crew to pick up for you! They always have a trash can near by and you can dispose of the waste there.

Bring along a spray-on or leave-on conditioner/freshner to keep Suzanne smelling good! I use "Resisoothe". It also keeps her skin moist (air condtioning can be so drying) and keeps her fur clean, (in between trips to the groomers). I use Virbac Premium Chews (they help with her teeth and keeps her breath clean smelling). I purchase them online from Entirely Pets.com. The public would never know she's a dog from any smells!!!

*Be careful when taking your dog into a port that you're not familiar with. Most of these foreign countries allow their dogs to roam free. And, they don't have the vaccination policies we have, you will be taking a risk! We take turns going into some ports and we leave Brenda on the ship, with one of us! I could never take the chance of her being attacked by a stray! A lot of countries have strick rules, as we do about "leashes" and vaccinations. I always check with their tourism depts. before I allow Brenda to be subjected to any danger!

Have a fabulous cruise and most of all enjoy Suzanne. Her friendship will be something you will treasure forever! If I can help further, please ask! :p

Warmly,

Roz

What you say has a lot of truth in it. However, please bear in mind that the person in the wheelchair van with a side ramp absolutely cannot park anywhere else but in that disabled zone. It's not just a convenience for them, it's not that it would be difficult for them to park elsewhere. There is no other space for them. As far as cruise cabins go, bear in mind that the person who is truly confined to a wheelchair cannot go into any non-accessible cabin if they cannot fit through the narrow door or if there is a threshold. At all. Again, not a convenience but a necessity - they have no choice if they want to be on the cruise.

My wife, who is the disabled one in our family, cuts a lot more slack to the relatively less disabled than I do.

The problem is that there is a continuum of "disabledness," and the present system caters to either the able bodied or the disabled - it is a binary system with no in-between. Thus the accessible cabin has both a roll-in shower and a special telephone for the hearing impaired; you perforce consume both when you need only one. A very imperfect system, but a lot better than having no provisions for the disabled at all.

- Richard

I so agree with you! There are two type of handicap parking places and the ones marked for vans are always taken by people who truely could walk the extra stall to get in. As for accesable cabins, these are a premium on any ship. And wheel chairs need the extra space to get in and out of them. I would so opt for a regular cabin as would my partner with MS who IS in a wheel chair fulltime. We even opted for a regular cabin when he could walk only a few feet to get into the cabin and brought a folding wheel chair to get around the ports and ship.

Handicap cabins in this regard on a ship should be set for people who are in chairs or who can not lift the legs high enought to walk up or out of the restroom.

I agree. Not to beat this horse too much; it is sometimes very difficult to identify the people who can not pick up their feet or legs high enough to step into the bathroom!

So, in this regard, please do not pass judgement on the "able looking person who walks out of the handicap room"!

Until, of course, you see them climbing the rock wall or doing a hip hop on the dance floor! Then, call in the mounties cause they're gonna get the wrath of "Roz" on them!!!!!! :mad:

Happy Able Bodied Sails,

Roz

a question for those with Service dogs -

if you can't take your dog of fhte ship with you (foreign port) or if you are concerned about other dogs in port- do you leave the dog in the cabin by himself? does someone stay with the dog? do you just not go into the port?

LittleBit: Not to answer a question with a question....but, would you leave your two year old, in a strange place, by themself? :confused:

Dogs remain 2 years old (mentally, emotionally) for the rest of their lives. :o

I would NEVER leave her alone anywhere, except at home (where it's very familiar)! And, at that, in the 4 years she's been with me, I've never been without her or her without me! We're a team, in the truest sense of the word! :cool:

If I question the port, in any way, then the cruise becomes about the ship and the journey rather than the ports.:)

Roz

Roz -

I'm sorry if you took my question as offensive - it was asked out of sheer curiosity as to what you would do if you got somewhere you really wanted to go and found out last minute that there was a problem with bringing your dog off the ship.

No, of course I wouldn't leave my 2 year old home alone, but my (non-service) dog stays at home or at friend's/parents home by herself often and when we travel I might leave her in the room while we are at dinner.

I did also wonder whether you would have your dog stay in the cabin while you were at the pool or somewhere outside where it was too hot for her or if you would stay in the cabin with her, but, thanks for your "answer," instead of trying to educate myself, I shall remain ignorant on this question rather than risk getting insulted again.