With Prinsendam leaving, will some HAL passengers look elsewhere?

I'm very curious, since we now know that Prinsendam is leaving HAL service next year, whether those HAL passengers who enjoy sailing on a smaller ship will consider looking elsewhere for a small ship experience? (And if so, where?)

I have all but ruled out sailing on larger ships (which for me is anything north of about 1,200) so I think HAL is not in my future. I'm trying Azamara in the fall to see what I think. I was previously keen on Oceania but the experiences of some HAL posters whose opinions I value on that line have put me off a bit. I'm also looking closely at Viking Ocean.

I really don't want to put all my eggs in one basket (Voyages to Antiquity). Anyone else looking at other ships but not necessarily keen on the "luxury" market? Prinsendam loyalists, what are you considering for the future?

The Prinsendam has always been our favorite HAL vessel and accounts for 200 days of our 500+ on HAL. But we have cruised on all size ships/boats (from 20 passenger to over 4000 passenger) and enjoyed nearly every experience. To us, variety is part of what makes cruising as much fun now as when we first started cruising around 40 years ago. What drives us away from HAL to other lines has to do with other issues. To us, sticking with a single cruise line is akin to always eating the same thing for dinner. While we might enjoy HAL for its terrific itineraries, there are other lines that we enjoy for its nightlife, cuisine, service, etc.

As to the "luxury" lines we do certainly enjoy that part of cruising. If money were no object we would likely spend nearly all of our cruising time (which can exceed 100 days in a year) on luxury lines. But since we do try to keep to an annual travel budget we will also keep cruising a mix of mass market lines.

Hank

Some might plenty of different choices to pick from.

I'm afraid that cost will drive that decision. The luxury market is too rich for my travel budget. I like to cruise for months, not weeks, and that comes with a big price tag even on HAL. Prinsendam was ideal for putting together back to back collectors cruises with a variety of itineraries. I can't afford to do that on a luxury line. The Amsterdam will be home for several months over the next year so I'm comfortable with her size. We had been thinking of getting to Europe next summer on the Rotterdam and moving to Prinsendam for the rest of her season in Europe but that's off the table. If we do something similar it will be on whatever ships and cruise lines that fit our travel interests and budget.

Inevitab ly, Yes, I think some HAL'ers will move alo g some likely would anyway . Every b usiness expects attrition. Some 'customers go, some come go t he bujsinss. i think HALers may start to leave in 'numbers. '' Some are un willing to live with what HAL is morphing into. I Think the product and 'message has changedt oo much. In some cases, it is the 'people that keep some HAL'ers coming back. That can only continue just so lon.g. IMO HAL has made some very bad mistakes and it might cost them .

The thing is I am not sure they recognize their mis-steps.

The Prinsendam has always been our favorite HAL vessel and accounts for 200 days of our 500+ on HAL. But we have cruised on all size ships/boats (from 20 passenger to over 4000 passenger) and enjoyed nearly every experience. To us, variety is part of what makes cruising as much fun now as when we first started cruising around 40 years ago. What drives us away from HAL to other lines has to do with other issues. To us, sticking with a single cruise line is akin to always eating the same thing for dinner. While we might enjoy HAL for its terrific itineraries, there are other lines that we enjoy for its nightlife, cuisine, service, etc.

 

As to the "luxury" lines we do certainly enjoy that part of cruising. If money were no object we would likely spend nearly all of our cruising time (which can exceed 100 days in a year) on luxury lines. But since we do try to keep to an annual travel budget we will also keep cruising a mix of mass market lines.

 

Hank

I've also cruised on a number of the mass market lines over the years. I started on Sitmar and then Princess, NCL, and have cruised Celebrity (since 1997!). Also Holland America, and even the defunct Royal Viking!

I am just not fond of the larger ships for the kind of cruising I enjoy. I was especially disappointed with my most recent experience on Princess (Regal). The MDR experience was terrible and specialty dining only partially mitigated the problem.

I'm also not too fond of the whole "separate suite experience" or the "ship within a ship" trend.

So where is a cruiser to turn?

I'm afraid that cost will drive that decision. The luxury market is too rich for my travel budget. I like to cruise for months, not weeks, and that comes with a big price tag even on HAL. Prinsendam was ideal for putting together back to back collectors cruises with a variety of itineraries. I can't afford to do that on a luxury line. The Amsterdam will be home for several months over the next year so I'm comfortable with her size. We had been thinking of getting to Europe next summer on the Rotterdam and moving to Prinsendam for the rest of her season in Europe but that's off the table. If we do something similar it will be on whatever ships and cruise lines that fit our travel interests and budget.

Very good points. I am still working, but the day is coming when I look forward to being able to travel for longer periods. I don't think I would choose to be at sea for months, but I could foresee mixing together a couple of cruises with some time traveling on land in between.

Cruisemom - I would be very interested to hear of your Azamara impressions. I spoke to another CC member last cruise and they rated Azamara close to the Prinsendam. There is more included with Azamara.

As to Oceania, while I didn't have a good experience, talking to other O cruisers on board (who also weren't happy), they said the experience was different on the 3 smaller ships and those that hadn't cancelled their future O cruises were returning to them. They don't have the same amount of specialty restaurants but from what they said, the experience was better as were the itineraries. That won't be in our future for some time to come as I couldn't talk DH (who is usually so easy going it is ridiculous) to return to O even if I wanted to.

It might be worth a look at Pacific Princess too. She's a smaller ship (under 700 passengers).

the luxury lines can have some good sales and with the all inclusive factor, the price may not be as bad as it sounds (I'm not sure how the solo supplement works though).

Like you, we are itinerary driven. The nice thing about the Prinsendam was it offered some fabulous ones. Once she has gone, there will be a lot of ports eliminated from HAL's itinerary, so yes, we will be looking. I don't have as many sea days as Hank - just over 300 - but nearly 1/2 have spent on Prinsendam due to her itineraries, ship and crew.

Oceania has been flooding my mail box and I am not tempted. For What we have paid HAL f hrough the years, I could sail any ship , i wish. I was so extremely disappointed with my last Veendam cr uise i ca no lon ger just shrug it off. it was Not a good cruise.

I've also cruised on a number of the mass market lines over the years. I started on Sitmar and then Princess, NCL, and have cruised Celebrity (since 1997!). Also Holland America, and even the defunct Royal Viking!

 

I am just not fond of the larger ships for the kind of cruising I enjoy. I was especially disappointed with my most recent experience on Princess (Regal). The MDR experience was terrible and specialty dining only partially mitigated the problem.

 

I'm also not too fond of the whole "separate suite experience" or the "ship within a ship" trend.

 

So where is a cruiser to turn?

Resorts and land vacations/ city hotel stays.

Resorts and land vacations/ city hotel stays.

Unfortunately this seems to be the case. I say unfortunately because I already enjoy land travel and particularly stays in larger European cities for all they have to offer in terms of food, culture, etc.

But I've also greatly enjoyed cruising through the years both for the feeling of being at sea and also to visit places that are easier to get to by ship and that don't require long stays -- Greek Isles, for example or some SE Asia ports.

Cruisemom - I would be very interested to hear of your Azamara impressions. I spoke to another CC member last cruise and they rated Azamara close to the Prinsendam. There is more included with Azamara.

 

As to Oceania, while I didn't have a good experience, talking to other O cruisers on board (who also weren't happy), they said the experience was different on the 3 smaller ships and those that hadn't cancelled their future O cruises were returning to them. They don't have the same amount of specialty restaurants but from what they said, the experience was better as were the itineraries. That won't be in our future for some time to come as I couldn't talk DH (who is usually so easy going it is ridiculous) to return to O even if I wanted to.

 

It might be worth a look at Pacific Princess too. She's a smaller ship (under 700 passengers).

 

the luxury lines can have some good sales and with the all inclusive factor, the price may not be as bad as it sounds (I'm not sure how the solo supplement works though).

 

Like you, we are itinerary driven. The nice thing about the Prinsendam was it offered some fabulous ones. Once she has gone, there will be a lot of ports eliminated from HAL's itinerary, so yes, we will be looking. I don't have as many sea days as Hank - just over 300 - but nearly 1/2 have spent on Prinsendam due to her itineraries, ship and crew.

I'll be happy to share my impressions of Azamara. Some of the things I've heard suggest that the focus on Azamara is more on the itinerary/port experience, so I'm hoping that it will tick some boxes for me.

I unfortunately agree that finding interesting itineraries seems to be inversely related to the size of the ship.... ;)

1. CRUISE AND MARITIME VOYAGES has a family of smaller ships with unique itineraries - worth looking at: https://us.cruiseandmaritime.com

2. NOBLE CALEDONIA is another company for smaller ships and global exploration itineraries, but more pricey.https://www.noble-caledonia.co.uk

3. FRED OLSON is also known for its smaller, older modest ships and far ranging itineraries: https://www.fredolsencruises.com

How well will the new format for the Maasdam In Depth serve this now missing Prinsendam gap? Looking forward to seeing this first hand in a few more months. Maasdam have at least two very compelling routes for us - TransPac and Japan and Sea of Cortez. Many good itineraries ahead for them if this format works. Been seeking a replacement for the no-frills Voyages of Discovery and agree Voyages to Antiquity seems to be the best replacement, with the soon to be missing Prinsendam.

I'll be happy to share my impressions of Azamara. Some of the things I've heard suggest that the focus on Azamara is more on the itinerary/port experience, so I'm hoping that it will tick some boxes for me.

 

I unfortunately agree that finding interesting itineraries seems to be inversely related to the size of the ship.... ;)

The person I spoke to on the Prinsendam who had sailed Azamara, O and river cruises (and whose opinion I valued) said that Azamara was similar to Prinsendam in itinerary focus and quality. It was her first cruise on HAL.

I feel very fortunate that I have been able to cruise so much while there was a large selection of smaller ships, with good itineraries, at a price I could afford. I had reached the stage where I decided to cut back on the number of cruises I take per year to focus on sailing the Prinsendam more. Alas, that idea is now shot to hell. :(

So, yes I have started to think about looking elsewhere.

For years I have toyed with the idea of sailing Saga Cruise Line. They are a British line, with smaller ships, yet a similar atmosphere to what HAL used to be. Itineraries are appealing, but don't seem to be as extensive as HAL.

I am also considering Viking Ocean Cruises. I loved Royal Viking, and believe this is a similar atmosphere. My main concern is that I have to be mobile enough to be able to use a rollator only, as no scooters are allowed on Viking ships. Right now that's a real possibility, but an ongoing concern.

In the time being, I am still willing to sail HAL's S- & R-class ships, and will definitely consider a Vista or Signature ship if the itinerary, price, and cabin availability are right. But those larger ships would require a scooter, so I need a cabin large enough to store one.

We will miss the opportunity to visit the smaller, unique ports where Prinsendam calls. Since we primarily select cruises based on itinerary, we will continue to search other cruise lines. Recently we have experienced Viking Ocean and Regent for the first time (yes, deals can be found on Regent!). We have an upcoming cruise on Oceania, and Azamara is also on our radar.

I've never sailed on the Prinsendam, but back in 2015 I started taking European river cruises. Much prefer that to staying at resorts, or moving from hotel to hotel in different cities. Ships are small, with most having fewer than 200 passengers. Unpack and re-pack once, just like ocean cruises. They're pricey, but many are all inclusive. I cruise Uniworld, and airport transfer, shore excursions, tips, and alcohol are includes. You can see places and towns not accessible on ocean cruises.

Roz

We've been loyal HAL cruisers. Almost to 5-star level. However, we just learned HAL canceled our Nov.2019 cruise from Fort Lauderdale south to Cuba then on to the Amazon River. They re-booked us on the Volendam; however, they removed the two stops in Cuba which was tops on husband's list of to-do's. So we've canceled that cruise. We cruised on the Massdam for 30 days March 2018. Staff of ship top notch. However, the Massdam was in need of some TLC. We had air-conditioning issues for over a week and our friends traveling with us had soaked carpeting most of the cruise. So, we are looking at Viking Ocean Cruises. So disappointed in HAL right now.

Only sailed it once and liked the smaller ship but thought the layout of the balcony cabin was terrible. No seating facing each other and no hooks in cabin to hang robes or clothes for the evening.

 

For years I have toyed with the idea of sailing Saga Cruise Line. They are a British line, with smaller ships, yet a similar atmosphere to what HAL used to be. Itineraries are appealing, but don't seem to be as extensive as HAL.

 

In the time being, I am still willing to sail HAL's S- & R-class ships...,

I have also looked at Saga in the past and would consider them for an interesting itinerary.

As to the S- and R- class ships, I'm afraid I've read too many reports of issues on these ships to want to cruise on them. Perhaps because I'm just not as familiar with them as other HAL passengers who've been on them numerous times and have a better idea of the pluses and minuses.

Of the remaining S- and R- class ships, do any of them stand out in terms of layout, maintenance, itineraries? Any that tend to be least favorites?

I have also looked at Saga in the past and would consider them for an interesting itinerary.

 

As to the S- and R- class ships, I'm afraid I've read too many reports of issues on these ships to want to cruise on them. Perhaps because I'm just not as familiar with them as other HAL passengers who've been on them numerous times and have a better idea of the pluses and minuses.

 

Of the remaining S- and R- class ships, do any of them stand out in terms of layout, maintenance, itineraries? Any that tend to be least favorites?

Sail primarily on R and S class ships -all of them are fine. All ships have occasional problems and problem passengers; nothing inherent in any of the R and S class ships. They now remain HAL's best value-priced smaller ship experience. And in another five years or so, they too will be gone. Always wonder why people only consider the occasional and situational bad reports about certain ships, and not the often overwhelmingly positive reports that specifically counter them. Certainly the Aegean Odyssey had more than its share of really bad reports when it was first launched. Kept us away ourselves. But she continues generate passenger loyalty now too.

Sail primarily on R and S class ships -all of them are fine. All ships have occasional problems and problem passengers; nothing inherent in any of the R and S class ships. They now remain HAL's best value-priced smaller ship experience. And in another five years or so, they too will be gone. Always wonder why people only consider the occasional and situational bad reports about certain ships, and not the often overwhelmingly positive reports that specifically counter them. Certainly the Aegean Odyssey had more than its share of really bad reports when it was first launched. Kept us away ourselves. But she continues generate passenger loyalty now too.

In over 40 years of cruising I've found most new ships and new lines have a few hiccups -- whether they are new builds (service issues) or older ships that are relaunched (ship issues). Thus, I tend to disregard early reports on most ships and I don't sail on them for the first 6-8 months.

What concerns me about HAL's older ships versus VTA's ship is a seeming difference in how issues are handled as much as the issues themselves. Here's one example:

On one of my VTA cruises, I came back to my cabin after attending an evening program to find my cabin door open and water pouring down one wall in my cabin due to a leak above. The hotel manager was in the cabin, directing workers who had already already moved a few of my things out of harm's way and were trying to address the problem. He was both apologetic and proactive.

Within less than one hour I was totally moved into a different cabin a few doors down. I had bountiful help in the move, with folks ferrying hanging items for me and even packing/unpacking drawers. I was given the replacement cabin for the remainder of the cruise -- no need to move back again, even once the problem was fixed.

I understand that 'ship' happens. But with all due respect I follow a lot of cruise lines and read a lot of reviews and 'ship' seems to happen more often than normal on S- and R- class ships, and the way that problems are dealt with does not indicate an empowered staff who can immediately make the passengers 'whole' when it does happen.

Perhaps I would feel differently if I were on a lengthy cruise and a small service blip occurred -- but realistically even then I cannot see myself being happy in a room with no air-con for five days or no working toilet!

There are some Very good HAL Hot el Directors and some who are less so. Some are disappointing but a GOOD one is really Good and i've saield with many who are GOOD.

........

 

Perhaps I would feel differently if I were on a lengthy cruise and a small service blip occurred -- but realistically even then I cannot see myself being happy in a room with no air-con for five days or no working toilet!

Depends on who and how one defines "non-working toilet and no A/C". Here we go again.

Agree, A/C on the older ships can get stressed when traveling the equator areas and HAL considers 75 degrees cabin temperature is normal. It helps to close the cabin curtains during those extreme temperature transit days, particularly if on the afternoon side of the ship So this temporary situation can feel hot to many people, but it does not mean the A/C is not working; only that it is not working to personal tastes.

Delayed flush toilets are also considered "not working" toilets even though they do eventually work, but that gets put into the same category as those which can occasionally overfllow mainly due to passenger misuse somewhere else on the line.

HAL is replacing many of those former early water conservation systems with very efficient new systems after R class drydocks - we had a very refurbished bathroom recently on the Zaandam. Trust but verify, is all I can say.

We had a very noisy cabin over the Ocean Bar on the S-class Maasdam and we were moved the very next day to a far quieter location. That cruise did have serious vibration problems too, but there were no further reports so it was just a one-off cruise that may have been due to traversing some wild hurricanes hitting that area at that time and being required to cruise at much higher speeds as it made its way to its next destination primarily as a relocation cruise itinerary.

Yes, ship happens. More likely when not doing the standard mass market milk-run cruises the bigger ships make.

I think that 'ship happens' much more frequently when cruise lines cut back on standard preventative maintenance practices in order to save money. Or cut back on standard drydock refreshes for the same reason.

Sometimes the only people who notice it are the few that on occasion get stuck in non functioning cabins.