Why can't North Americans live without 'iced water' at mealtimes?

I have tried and failed to understand it. It feels like half the protests, complaints and concerns on the MSC forum are about the lack of free 'iced water' at mealtimes. Now, I may have had iced water a couple of times in my life but it is certainly not anything I would ever expect.

I like my tea made in a certain way, but the moment I leave the confines of my home I would not expect it to be made the same way. Why do North Americans expect FREE 'ICED WATER' when out of their own home country?

Please somebody, explain it me.

It is not on the menu. Shut up.

I don't get it either, but it's no different from Brits wanting roast spuds or mint sauce with their lamb. Admittedly you don't get that coming up so often. I think some of it coming down to some people not being able to or prepared to adapt when overseas or perhaps not being that used to travelling to other countries (or only travelling in a US bubble) so being taken aback when something they take for granted just not being available. Seems to rank up there for them like having toilet paper. Hetting iced water served automatically whereever we go is not something that we get here, so we can understand why something seeming so trivial to us, could upset someone so much.

That said I've been in countries where toilet paper was rationed a few squares at time. I just found it amusing if somewhat strange. It's these differences that make travelling interesting.

That's a very interesting questions that I actually debated with my wife who happens to be American (I'm German). In general Americans tend to spend much more freely and don't mind paying high tips for every little service and then all the sudden two euros for a bottle of water become a huge topic of concern.

The way she explained it to me is that the ice water, that waiter pour at restaurants, is part of the service experience that Americans have gotten used to from very early childhood on. Lack of ice water gives them the feeling that hospitality is missing. Also, many Americans don't like carbonated water, so drinking tap water is not much of a difference to them (I personally have a hard time drinking the chlorine water that is served at American restaurants, but that's a different story).

Now, my only complaint about MSC is that they are a little inconsistent in charging for water European-style while charging the tips and service charges American-style. So the seem to pick and choose between cultures whatever fits their business plan best. Having said that, the price for the overall package is good, so that's only a very minor complaint.

Its an ego thang to prove their dental work is better than ours.

Well you know this thread was a little tongue-in-cheek but what marvellously considered and insightful responses!

On the toilet paper issue, I have been to many public conveniences in Muslim countries where there is no toilet paper provided. Some cultures consider the use of toilet paper unhygienic and that there is simply no substitute for running water. As you say, Amomondo, discovering these differences to our own culture is part of travelling and , as a keen traveller, part of the joy of being alive.

I do fear that cruise ships attract poor travellers - those who are not really open to discovering new cultures but want to tick of the places they have visited while in the safe, 'homely' environment of a cruise ship. I have been very lucky so far in my cruise career of encountering people of like minds who relish the differences and enjoy the comedy of the clash of cultures around us.

Alex71, you do make excellent points and from a most qualified perspective. MSC do pick and choose, I agree and I also agree that the total package is excellent value. I am sure that under EU consumer law, no cruise line can enforce a service charge/compulsory tip upon European guests but enough of us go along with it to keep the headline cruise fares lower than they otherwise would be.

Basic 'hospitality expectation' does really explain the "iced water shock horror' when combined with an unfamiliarity of other cultures.

I often think that we Europeans are spoilt with our extreme diversities within a relatively small geographic area. Unless one has rarely left the area in which one was born, the typical European has experienced diverse cultures all through their lives. They are impossible to avoid. We forever expect the unexpected when travelling and those of us who travel well appreciate them. I feel some of the most vocal of our North American cousins on this forum are letting the side down in this regard.

It could also be that in many European countries Tap water is just not drinkable and drinking water is sold in bottles and not just to tourists but those who live there, this is accepted practice in those countries and it could be that Americans are either not aware or have not come across it due to never having traveled to Europe.

So paying for a bottle of water will be somewhat alien to them in dining rooms on MSC ships a bit like the late Dining time, whereas Europeans not including the UK are more likely to eat late and have bottled water they have purchased from a store.

Or as Alex points out it could also be because they expect it!

We all have different tastes.

Generalities are never good.

By the way I am American and appreciate my water without ice.

Keith

Having travelled around the world I never trust water in a glass and certainly don't trust ice!

I prefer bottled water when travelling even in Europe but from travelling in India insist on opening the bottle myself.

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It could also be that in many European countries Tap water is just not drinkable and drinking water is sold in bottles and not just to tourists but those who live there, this is accepted practice in those countries and it could be that Americans are either not aware or have not come across it due to never having traveled to Europe.

 

So paying for a bottle of water will be somewhat alien to them in dining rooms on MSC ships a bit like the late Dining time, whereas Europeans not including the UK are more likely to eat late and have bottled water they have purchased from a store.

 

Or as Alex points out it could also be because they expect it!

While I agree with the thrust of what you say Sidari, I feel compelled to pick you up on the opening point. Unsafe tap water is a myth pedalled and perpetuated by a conspiracy of tour operators and accommodation providers selling bottled water.

Across the EU, tap water is mandated to be safe and drinkable by law. Any state falling foul of this would feel the full weight of the EU upon them, fined through the nose, sued by the affected population, and generally punished in a very public and humiliating way. It does not happen. The tap water is safe.

The advice not to drink the water originated decades ago from a fear of differing mineral contents upsetting the stomachs of dainty British travellers. Some tour reps still repeat this nonsense to this day. Better advice would be never to drink water that has spent a long time in a plastic bottle.

Having lived in a dozen or so places around the UK and in several other countries too, I can tell you that the mineral content is more varied around the UK than across the other countries I have lived in. Yet the advice has never been "don't drink the water in London", which it really ought to be - horrible stuff and it makes horrible beer too. You are more likely to be upset by drinking Birmingham tap water (also disgusting) than a tap water drinking tour of European countries.

On the broader point, we, as British, know there are certain establishments, restaurants and pubs etc., that will provide tap water upon request and without charge. However, unless there is a medical emergency, it feels too mean and tight ever to ask for it.

Drinks are a major source of revenue for a cruise line. We expect to pay for them, one way or another. Why pick the lowest cost cruise line and then refuse to pay for drinks? Serving water requires labour and other costs in stocking/making, delivering it and washing the glasses - why such a reluctance to pay for this?

You see, although I understand the 'no iced water shock horror' condition is brought about by insufficient exposure to other cultures, I can't bring myself to sympathise with it.

I understand why they get upset. When you book a cruise you are told everything is included much like an all inclusive. Then when you look a little deeper you find that isn't at all.

Food and accomodation is included. Then everything is chargeable. You don't expect that at an all inclusive resort. Why can't cruise lines sell an all inclusive price for those who want the comfort of everything for before they leave.

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Why can't cruise lines sell an all inclusive price for those who want the comfort of everything for before they leave.

There I totally agree. I think the general drift is in that direction as consumers become increasingly aware of their rights not to be charged for anything that they did not knowingly sign-up for, i.e. anything not included in the bottom line of their invoice before booking.

I keep thinking that MSC's Allegrissimo is such good value compared to paying for drinks 'as you go' that MSC should just include it in the fare and do away with all the complexity of administering so many competing schemes and packages. But then a new cruise line would spring up to cater for those who don't drink alcohol and/or only drink iced water :).

Its an ego thang to prove their dental work is better than ours.

Classic! :) Thanks for playing! Dental work is for another thread :)

I'm an American but can certainly live without iced water on my table. Perhaps it's because I've lived in Europe for so many years, and had a career that took me all over the globe. I've always followed the "When in Rome do as the Romans" wherever I've been and rarely had any problems.

That said, since we drink tap water at home, I can also do without bottled, BUT when cruising (on MSC ships) we buy the bottled for the cabin and at the table in the MDR's I can't recall ever being denied a pitcher of (iced) tap water instead of bottled.

I agree that too many of my co-nationals when traveling expect everything to be like it is on the home turf.

We went allegrissimo and I have to say it wasn't worth it for us. Our bills went over the weekly amount but only just.

Goes against what I said earlier about going all inclusive! Just think there should be a separate all inclusive fare and let people make up their mind as to what they want.

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Although like many Americans I prefer iced water, my objection is not that MSC does not provide iced water at dinner. It is that they do not provide free water at all at dinner.

And if you buy water, but do not finish it (which is not unusual if there are just two of you,) you need to take your bottle with you. To me, there is something strange about dozens of people carrying around bottles of water, especially on formal night.

Maybe they should try drinking more wine instead:rolleyes:.

Although like many Americans I prefer iced water, my objection is not that MSC does not provide iced water at dinner. It is that they do not provide free water at all at dinner.

A brilliant exposition - thank you. Now I think I beginning to understand the expectation but, to crystallise the case, I will ask the question: "why do you expect free water at mealtimes ?".

This thread is not entirely serious and I hope all readers will take it in the spirit it is intended. We are, however, discussing an interesting topic....

I think it's because it is so freely available both in the states and the uk. Many travellers from both "forget" that these rules do not apply abroad.

Also many of the rules regarding free water in the uk came about after the deaths from ecstasy overdoses.

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Tim .... having seen on at least 20 occasions while holidaying on Corfu the scale content of a kettle due to the water there and that of my own at home which is Nil i do know the difference in drinking water and yes i have on occasions drunk tap water on Corfu as i am sure you may have done in Greece.

I would not drink it all the time and neither do the local people who prefer to take their large water bottles to the Free Natural springs to refill them as we have also done on occasion.

As you say there are Regional differences in the UK and even 25 miles away where Kerry lives the water tastes different to where i live and you can tell more when drinking Tea .... :) even in Yorkshire you can tell the difference from my supply.

Tim .... having seen on at least 20 occasions while holidaying on Corfu the scale content of a kettle due to the water there and that of my own at home which is Nil i do know the difference in drinking water and yes i have on occasions drunk tap water on Corfu as i am sure you may have done in Greece.

 

I would not drink it all the time and neither do the local people who prefer to take their large water bottles to the Free Natural springs to refill them as we have also done on occasion.

 

As you say there are Regional differences in the UK and even 25 miles away where Kerry lives the water tastes different to where i live and you can tell more when drinking Tea .... :) even in Yorkshire you can tell the difference from my supply.

Sidari, a great an considered reply. I can't promise mine will be :).

The natural springs are the most toxic and infected - don't do it!

Yes, I always rely upon the tap water in Greece. I have seen bottles of water sitting in the intense sun everywhere in Greece. Bottled water tastes of plastic and is probably therefore toxic. You don't need it. I have always drunk tap water - it is a part of travelling.

Like us, you must live in a soft water area. I didn't know how rare this is until I lived in other places. To have scale in my kettle was new and shocking the first time.

Corfu is where I would like to live. Sidari, help me out.

T.

Tim .... regarding the springs we have never felt ill after drinking the water, as for Corfu we have a plot of land for sale if you are interested ... :D

Maybe they should try drinking more wine instead:rolleyes:.

Hehe, this made me smile because it is something I would say! :D

Although like many Americans I prefer iced water, my objection is not that MSC does not provide iced water at dinner. It is that they do not provide free water at all at dinner.

 

And if you buy water, but do not finish it (which is not unusual if there are just two of you,) you need to take your bottle with you. To me, there is something strange about dozens of people carrying around bottles of water, especially on formal night.

If you want free iced tap water at your MDR table in the evening, just ask your waiter to bring you a pitcher. As I said in my post above, I personally, have never been denied this on any MSC ship I've sailed on.

While I have not cruise MSC yet... on my to-do list. I can pipe in on the water issue. I am an american but was raised for 9 years in Germany so I know why your confused. Where should I start.... any american restaurant you sit down at the first thing they do is plunk down a glass of ice water whether you want it or not. This trend is slowly changing because of waste and extra dish washing. So yes... americans tend to expect it... for free. *sigh*

btw... I'll stick with wine for dinner. Danke schön

A brilliant exposition - thank you. Now I think I beginning to understand the expectation but, to crystallise the case, I will ask the question: "why do you expect free water at mealtimes ?".

Kalo Taxidi.