New rules on visiting Cuba

I was curious to see what Carnival says, so I googled their website. Here's an excerpt:

Q: How do the people-to-people programs work?A: People-to-people programs are a permitted category for U.S. guests to visitCuba. These programs must include a full-time schedule of activities that willcreate educational interactions between guests and the Cuban people. Activitiescan include shore excursions offered by Carnival and/or guests can opt toparticipate in a self-guided program. However, such self-guided guests must stillhave a full-time schedule of authorized activities and must maintain their ownrecords demonstrating such a full-time schedule.

Q: If my cruise stays in Cuba overnight, do I have to engage in people-to-people activities both days? A: Yes. For Day 2, any guest who wishes to get off the ship will need to participatein a people-to-people activity/shore excursion. They cannot rely on the prior day’speople-to-people activities for the next day. For those sailings that depart at noonon Day 2, guests wishing to get off the ship will need to participate in 2-3 hours ofpeople-to-people activities.

Q: Does Carnival offer shore excursions that comply with one of the 12 generallicenses?A: Carnival will offer optional shore excursion programs that will fully comply withall the requirements for people-to-people programs. In planning activities ashore,guests should keep in mind that people-to-people activities must be fulfilledbefore guests can engage in free time. Evening shore excursions offered byCarnival do not comply with the people-to-people guidelines and cannot beconsidered to be part of the required full schedule of activities.

Q: How much free time is there?A: After completion of a full-time schedule of people-to-people activities, guestsare free to explore as they wish.

It's interesting to see how the various cruise lines interpret the regulations. Carnival seems to really focus on the "full time" aspect of touring. At least I'd have to give kudos to Carnival for not implying that cruisers MUST take Carnival excursions to comply with the regs. After reading the post on what Azamara is saying, it appears Az isn't quite as forthcoming on the subject as Carnival. Of course, perhaps their interpretation is different from Carnival's.

one thing is not clear to me: can we get off the ship and do our own tour, or is it imperative to book a tour through the ship or with an "official cuban tour operator" ?????

one thing is not clear to me: can we get off the ship and do our own tour, or is it imperative to book a tour through the ship or with an "official cuban tour operator" ?????

Assuming you're talking about Carnival, I have no clue! It's clear as mud to me. However, I can't imagine people will be held on the ship until they can show they are planning or have already accomplished a full time program of educational activities. If I were traveling on Carnival, or any cruise line, what I WOULD do is find out if my chosen private tour operator is paid by the state or associated with the Cuban military. If so, I'd chose another tour operator or driver - just to be safe, and to at least TRY to comply with the OFAC regulation and Carnival's confusing rules.

I was curious to see what Carnival says, so I googled their website. Here's an excerpt:

 

Q: How do the people-to-people programs work?A: People-to-people programs are a permitted category for U.S. guests to visitCuba. These programs must include a full-time schedule of activities that willcreate educational interactions between guests and the Cuban people. Activitiescan include shore excursions offered by Carnival and/or guests can opt toparticipate in a self-guided program. However, such self-guided guests must stillhave a full-time schedule of authorized activities and must maintain their ownrecords demonstrating such a full-time schedule.

Q: If my cruise stays in Cuba overnight, do I have to engage in people-to-people activities both days? A: Yes. For Day 2, any guest who wishes to get off the ship will need to participatein a people-to-people activity/shore excursion. They cannot rely on the prior day’speople-to-people activities for the next day. For those sailings that depart at noonon Day 2, guests wishing to get off the ship will need to participate in 2-3 hours ofpeople-to-people activities.

Q: Does Carnival offer shore excursions that comply with one of the 12 generallicenses?A: Carnival will offer optional shore excursion programs that will fully comply withall the requirements for people-to-people programs. In planning activities ashore,guests should keep in mind that people-to-people activities must be fulfilledbefore guests can engage in free time. Evening shore excursions offered byCarnival do not comply with the people-to-people guidelines and cannot beconsidered to be part of the required full schedule of activities.

Q: How much free time is there?A: After completion of a full-time schedule of people-to-people activities, guestsare free to explore as they wish.

 

It's interesting to see how the various cruise lines interpret the regulations. Carnival seems to really focus on the "full time" aspect of touring. At least I'd have to give kudos to Carnival for not implying that cruisers MUST take Carnival excursions to comply with the regs. After reading the post on what Azamara is saying, it appears Az isn't quite as forthcoming on the subject as Carnival. Of course, perhaps their interpretation is different from Carnival's.

I do not think Carnival has updated their site since the new rules went into effect as self guided programs are no longer allowed. Carnival does not currently have an ships calling on Cuba.

I do not think Carnival has updated their site since the new rules went into effect as self guided programs are no longer allowed. Carnival does not currently have an ships calling on Cuba.

I am sailing on Carnival Feb.17th . to Cuba

I am sailing on Carnival Feb.17th . to Cuba

The new rules are only 11 days old. Carnival has not had a ship call on Cuba since they went into effect. I would think Carnival will update their polices regarding Cuba and advise you prior to your embarking. I would not base any decisions on the current web site as I do not think it reflects the new rules.

It's interesting to see how the various cruise lines interpret the regulations. Carnival seems to really focus on the "full time" aspect of touring. At least I'd have to give kudos to Carnival for not implying that cruisers MUST take Carnival excursions to comply with the regs. After reading the post on what Azamara is saying, it appears Az isn't quite as forthcoming on the subject as Carnival. Of course, perhaps their interpretation is different from Carnival's.

But it seems that Carnival's interpretation of full-time my differ considerably from the US government's. Carnival is even selling evening excursions that explicitly do not comply with the people-to-people rules.

The new rules are only 11 days old. Carnival has not had a ship call on Cuba since they went into effect. I would think Carnival will update their polices regarding Cuba and advise you prior to your embarking. I would not base any decisions on the current web site as I do not think it reflects the new rules.

I agree Hear hear

But it seems that Carnival's interpretation of full-time my differ considerably from the US government's. Carnival is even selling evening excursions that explicitly do not comply with the people-to-people rules.

I would give Carnival some time on this. The next Carnival ship to call on Cuba is the Paradise which will stop in Havana on 19 Feb 2018. The next Carnival Corporation brand to stop is Holland America Veendam on 27 Dec 2017. I am sure their lawyers are working this project.

The two cruise lines who have called on Cuba since the new rules went into effect are RCI and Oceania - Azamara Quest will call tomorrow. I also looked at American Airlines, Copa Air (Panama), Air Havana, and Aero Mexico - who are currently transporting passengers to Cuba. All - cruise and air lines above - have very similar policies. They require an affidavit that a US person - traveling to Cuba - is doing so for authorized purposes. None indicated that you prove anything or showed any attempt to police your activities once you get to Cuba.

I did find one exception to this standard. MSC cruises does not show their Cuba cruises (from Mexico) on the US site. If you go to the Europe site they warn that US passports holders may not travel on their Cuba cruises - but this would be a very usual move for Carnival.

we are leaving on jan. 15 on royal caribbean and their webpage is not very enlightening.......

Found this on the Royal Caribbean Website. It looks like you are allowed to book private tours as long as you check the appropriate box. Finally some clarity. Im glad they aren't forcing you to book a cruise line shore excursion which is almost double the price of the local tours.

Box 1. Full Day Royal Caribbean Program. If, during your visit to Cuba, you intend to participate in a program with a full day schedule of group educational exchange activities that you have purchased through Royal Caribbean, you should select Box 1 in Part A.

Box 2. Full Day-Third Party Program (Tours Not Sponsored by Royal Caribbean). If, during your visit to Cuba, you intend to participate in a program with a full day schedule of group educational exchange activities that you have purchased through a U.S. sponsoring organization (that is not Royal Caribbean), and the predominant portion of activities is not with a prohibited official of the Government of Cuba, or a prohibited member of the Cuban Communist party, you should select Box 2 in Part A.

Box 3.Self-Guided People-to-People Program (ONLY PERMITTED FOR BOOKINGS BEFORE JUNE 16, 2017): If you are visiting Cuba for self-guided program of people-to-people educational exchange activities, you should select Box 3 in Part A.

Box 4. Other general license categories. If you are visiting Cuba under any of the other categories of permitted travel listed you should select Box 3 in Part A.

Box 4. Other general license categories. If you are visiting Cuba under any of the other categories of authorized U.S. travel listed under Box 4 of the Guest Certification, you should select Box 4 in Part A.

To those who celebrate it Happy Thanksgiving

Just finished up 11/20 RCL Empress sailing and had no problem getting off ship to do private tour.

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Just finished up 11/20 RCL Empress sailing and had no problem getting off ship to do private tour.

 

 

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Did you have to show proof of having a private tour ?

No proof needed. We just had our passports and Cuban Visas in hand and they left us off the ship.

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The Oceania website FAQ says (in part),

"OFAC requires that individuals traveling under a group people-to-people license participate in a full-time schedule of group people-to-people exchange activities through a U.S. organization accompanied by a U.S. individual of the sponsoring organization that result in meaningful interaction between the travelers and individuals in Cuba."

I have been unable to find a definition of "full-time". Specifically, I'd like to know how many hours per day I would be required to participate in approved activities. Does anyone know?

The Oceania website FAQ says (in part),

"OFAC requires that individuals traveling under a group people-to-people license participate in a full-time schedule of group people-to-people exchange activities through a U.S. organization accompanied by a U.S. individual of the sponsoring organization that result in meaningful interaction between the travelers and individuals in Cuba."

 

I have been unable to find a definition of "full-time". Specifically, I'd like to know how many hours per day I would be required to participate in approved activities. Does anyone know?

Oceania is simply quoting the US Treasury web site on the regulations. The term "full time" has not been defined further by the government in the context of cruise visitors. You can research the Treasury site at:

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/cuba.aspx

No proof needed. We just had our passports and Cuban Visas in hand and they left us off the ship.

 

 

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Thanks for the info jeffdal, did you book your cruise before the 15th June2017?

Thanks for the info jeffdal, did you book your cruise before the 15th June2017?

Actually on June 15 which was considered after June 15.

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Actually on June 15 which was considered after June 15.

 

 

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Did you use the people to people reason for your travel to Cuba or something else? I just got back from Cuba with Azamara and it seemed those who "checked that box" were forced to do a ship tour. I checked "support the Cuban people" and was permitted to do my tour. Lots of misinformation going around and Azamara was definitely trying to force everyone they could in a ships tour for both days we were in port.

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You are right! There is a lof misinformation and the cruise lines are using it to force their clients to book their shore excursions. Supporting the Cuban people is the one category you can use to take a private tour with one of the local companies. If the American people really want to support the Cuban people then they should use private operators. Cruise lines only use government owned companies.

Do you all really think that a private tour is going to meet the US government's Cuba license requirements under the

"Support For the Cuban People" category?

From https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/cuba_faqs_new.pdf :

What constitutes “support for the Cuban people” for generally authorized travel and other transactions?

This general license authorizes, subject to conditions, travel-related transactions and other transactions that are intended to provide support for the Cuban people, which include activities of recognized human rights organizations; independent organizations designed to promote a rapid, peaceful transition to democracy; and individuals and nongovernmental organizations that promote independent activity intended to strengthen civil society in Cuba. In accordance with the NSPM, OFAC is amending this general license to require that each traveler utilizing this authorization engage in a full time schedule of activities that enhance contact with the Cuban people, suport civil society in Cuba, or promote the Cuban people's independence from Cuban authorities and that result in meaningful interactions with individuals in Cuba. OFAC is also amending this general license to exclude from the authorization certain direct financial transactions with entities and subentities identified on the State Department's Cuba Restricted List. The traveler's schedule of activities must not include free time or recreation in excess of that consistent with a full time schedule in Cuba. For a complete description of what this general license authorized and the restrictions that apply, see 31 CFR § 515.574.

(I could not get the FAQ pdf to copy and paste correctly, so I had to type it. Please go to the website and read it for yourselves in case I made some type-o's. )

That´s the category that every traveler is usuing when they book a priavte tour. Guess what, they haven´t had any issues getting off the ship or back home. If the goal fo these new restrictions is to empower and help the the private sector of Cuba then what better way than booking a tour with a private company? Guess who uses the cruise lines for their shore excursions? All government owned companies, the kind of company your government and president would not rather have you use.

Check this out from someone who clearly knows how things work:

Based on your post, Carnival is doing it correctly, putting the responsibility on the guest. As it should be.

RCCL, on the other hand , has sent out a sneakily written, scare tactic letter that states (I'm paraphrasing) that you must go on an approved tour that meets the new rule (we know that, we can read the Treasury Dept .memo), but then states that all their tours do meet the new rule.

It goes on to encourage booking one of their tours.

Nowhere does it say you must go on one of their approved tours. This is the part people are not getting. When you research private tours in Cuba, many already state that they meet the group requirements for people to people.

I was there in June, just after the first mandate. Yes, we filled out the form to leave at the departure port, but nobody cared where we went when we got off the ship in Havana.

My next trip is in Dec 2018, but was booked before the first mandate in June, so I am exempt from any of these recent changes.

That's another thing, are they going to research several thousand bookings per sailing to find out when each guest booked - pre or post Marco Rubio inspired changes?

"OK, you can get off the ship - ooops, sorry, but the person behind you in line can't."

I don't see it happening.

Enforcement doesn’t happen when you board or upon disembarking. If it happens, it could be weeks, months , or years later.

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