Warning..traveling with child not your own

Folks are missing the point- CBP RECOMMENDS that a notarized letter be carried if one parent is traveling alone with the child. Last time I looked a RECOMMENDATION is not a law or regulation. (And I routinely RECOMMEND that people get one, just to be safe.)

With that said, OP had said letter and presented it, she should not have been hassled.

I don't want to get into the whole debate over certified copies and photocopies, but one of the major problems I see are the discrepancies within governmental requirements (not that it's a surprise). If I remember correctly from the thread about this a couple weeks ago, the CBP website doesn't specify that a certified birth cert. is required, or is vague at best. On the other hand, the State Dept. website is very clear that an original or certified birth cert. is required to apply for a passport. There needs to be consistency across the board.

 

If someone is going to take someone else's child out of the country, or a child in which one of the parents isn't there, that's a big deal. I believe it's that person's responsibility to make sure they have crossed their "T's" and dotted their "I's." And that means going further than reading a paragraph on Carnival's FAQ's. Carnival doesn't control the borders, the U.S. govt. does, so that's where you should ultimately end up.

 

I've seen a lot of posts about the minor travel form and have never seen anyone "assure everyone" that "no one ever asks" for it. I've seen plenty of people say they've never been asked for it, but in each of those cases, they've always said they still play it safe and keep taking it with them, and they recommend others do the same.

What State requires has nothing to do with what CBP requires (the best example is that to apply for a passport both parent's names need to be on the birth certificate, which is not a requirement when using the birth certificate for a closed loop cruise). In any event, CBP's website is written so poorly that it is worthless.

And again the OP had what was required.

sorry to hear of your troubles but yes they can be real jerks, our friend brought her two boys last year on miracle with passports and guy at cbp gave her a ration of crap because no father was present, she explained dad was killed some years ago and she was unable to get letter of authorization from him due to him being dead, guy stated you should have death certificate with you, she said excuse me but I do not make it a habit to travel with my dead husbands death certificate and my boys have valid passports, after about 20 min of this a supervisor came over apologized to her and away they went but not before having to explain fathers circumstance in front of two little boys age 5 and 7

heartless is only way I could explain it

That's interesting...because I made it a habit to travel with my dead husband's death certificate and my son's valid passport until he turned 18. You have to have the death certificate anyway to get the passport/renewal (depending on timing of death) and you need a death certificate to do a million different things for the estate. If you do any research at all about traveling outside the US, it makes perfect sense that this should be a document you have with you.

It doesn't excuse rudeness, but I also do not think it is "heartless" - the children are aware that there father is dead and will live with all those implications for the rest of their life. I appreciate your friend's less than happy experience, but the reality is she was the one that had the power to prevent it and I am sure her attitude with border patrol didn't help.

I have to play devil's advocate. How would you feel about these 'jerk' cbp IF your child, grandchild, niece, nephew, etc. were abducted and were 'found'/kept safe because the cbp were doing their jobs and being jerks.

We all have long lists of things to worry about with respect to the safety of our children.

But the notion that someone would book a cruise weeks or months in advance, kidnap my child, go through the trouble to get the normally required travel documents, and then flee the country by cruise ship is not a worry that keeps me up at night.

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Agree with some of the others that he was being harsh.

Several years ago we were coming home from a cruise to Alaska. We got off in Seattle. My husband, two children and myself. We had passports. But the security pulled us aside and questioned our (then 8 year old) twins to death. His questions were as if he thought our passports were fake, and we had kidnapped the kids. He was asking them if they were sure we were their real parents, and what year were they born, etc. If my husband or I tried to answer - as we found it odd under the circumstances, he threatened to arrest us for interfering. Seriously. Baffled us, and scared the crap out of them. We felt we had done everything right - we had genuine government issued passports and they were our birth children.

So sometimes it is about the person you encounter and not about the documentation. HA! Even typing this my face is getting hot all over again.

When we were going through in Miami once off the ship the officer was super rude to us and then told us to “have fun back in Canada with our Muslim loving Prime Minister”. He was a real *******. I was shocked. I did file a formal complaint though. I’m sorry you had to go through that.

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Ok, so I was just curious myself and went and looked... right from custom and border protections website...

 

Can a minor under 18 years of age travel to another country without their parents?

 

 

 

U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) strongly recommends that unless the child is accompanied by both parents, the adult have a note from the child's other parent (or, in the case of a child traveling with grandparents, uncles or aunts, sisters or brothers, friends, or in groups*, a note signed by both parents) stating "I acknowledge that my wife/husband/etc. is traveling out of the country with my son/daughter/group. He/She/They has/have my permission."See ourQ&A

parental consent.

 

Minors may be able to travel to another country without either one of their parents. They may however require a notarized written consent letter from both parents. Minors interested in traveling without their parents should contact the embassy to address admissibility questions.

 

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

Guess that sums it up.

And that is exactly what I had..a notarized letter from her parent..he looked at it and asked me who wrote the letter and who notarized it and went as far as to say it wasn’t a REAL notary stamp....I am actually going to go see the gentleman that notarized it and ask about his stamp. So I had what he needed and he still hassled us!

he was within his rights to ask for the documentation. he was NOT within his rights to hassle you like he did when you provided them

he was within his rights to ask for the documentation. he was NOT within his rights to hassle you like he did when you provided them

I think most of us agree on that.

So kidnappers now take children in cruises and then bring them back?

But the notion that someone would book a cruise weeks or months in advance, kidnap my child, go through the trouble to get the normally required travel documents, and then flee the country by cruise ship is not a worry that keeps me up at night.

It's a Closed Loop kidnapping.

We're taking our son's friend with us in June. When we get back and go through customs, I think I'll say, "He's not ours. We didn't like him, so we're bringing him back."

I'll decide if the joke was worth it or not after the interrogation. ;p

A copy of a Drivers License is not considered ID or is accepted.

A copy of a passport is not considered ID or is accepted.

The letter must be notarized to be acceptable.

So why is a copy of a BC considered acceptable? I think everything is sometimes vague, but if you are traveling without a passport, than you best have all the original documents of your ID as required. Seems like a no brainer to me.

So why do people argue this constantly. Isn't it a well know fact, that once you reach immigration, regardless if in an airport, land crossing, or seaport, you are at the mercy of the government agent, and you better have everything they need. Some places now have enhanced questions to ask, to randomly see if you get flustered or not.

I would never travel with a "copy" only of anything I need. Just doesn't make sense to take the chance.

A copy of a Drivers License is not considered ID or is accepted.

 

A copy of a passport is not considered ID or is accepted.

 

The letter must be notarized to be acceptable.

 

So why is a copy of a BC considered acceptable? I think everything is sometimes vague, but if you are traveling without a passport, than you best have all the original documents of your ID as required. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

So why do people argue this constantly. Isn't it a well know fact, that once you reach immigration, regardless if in an airport, land crossing, or seaport, you are at the mercy of the government agent, and you better have everything they need. Some places now have enhanced questions to ask, to randomly see if you get flustered or not.

 

I would never travel with a "copy" only of anything I need. Just doesn't make sense to take the chance.

A copy of a birth certificate is allowed by the DHS regulations (here is a link if you want to take the time to read it https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2008/04/03/E8-6725/documents-required-for-travelers-departing-from-or-arriving-in-the-united-states-at-sea-and-land#h-111), whereas copies of the other documents you mention is not allowed (and it is acceptable because CBP has the time during the cruise to vet all of the passengers through a multitude of government databases). While I agree that it is best to travel with an original birth certificate I also understand that sometimes that isn't feasible. The OP had everything required by law and recommended by CBP. There can be a fine line between being gruffly professional and throwing ones' weight around just because of the uniform and this CBP officer crossed that line.

It's a Closed Loop kidnapping.

We're taking our son's friend with us in June. When we get back and go through customs, I think I'll say, "He's not ours. We didn't like him, so we're bringing him back."

 

I'll decide if the joke was worth it or not after the interrogation. ;p

:') :') :')

Years ago I took my son and nephew on a cruise without their parent(s). I didn't know about the notarized letter thing, When the CBP agent asked me for it, I replied "Oh, I don't have one, can I just leave them here 'till I get back?" Luckily she had a sense of humour, she asked them if they were planning to behave themselves and let us through.

This was pre 9-11. I wouldn't try that now, though. I always travel with the letter.

There’s at least one jerk in the CBP at every port. Someone who thinks they know everything

I have encountered many a jerk at CBP. I'm originally from NYC AND often travel to/from the Caribbean. Almost every time I enter the US (via air) I get the interrogation about where I am from in NY.. which, unless you are from there, makes absolutely no sense. I can name any town, how the hell do you know if I'm not lying or not? :rolleyes:

I've been asked:

What do you do for a living?

Where are your parents from?

Why did your parents name you that name?

What does your name mean?

Are you married? (maybe this guy was just smitten :hearteyes:)

I'm convinced that many of these ppl are the same little punks who sooo wanted to be hall monitor as children, and now get their chance to "protect and serve"

What State requires has nothing to do with what CBP requires (the best example is that to apply for a passport both parent's names need to be on the birth certificate, which is not a requirement when using the birth certificate for a closed loop cruise). In any event, CBP's website is written so poorly that it is worthless.

 

And again the OP had what was required.

If a child only has one name on the BC, they can not apply for a passport?

I took my niece on a cruise, I had her Birth certificate and notarized letter. Cruise never asked for it. I never have a problem cruising, but I think you need it just in case you are flying. I have only had issues at the airport never on the cruise.

If a child only has one name on the BC, they can not apply for a passport?

As long as it has one parent's name I don't think there is a problem. If no parents are listed then it likely would require extra documentation.

If a child only has one name on the BC, they can not apply for a passport?

I have encountered many a jerk at CBP. I'm originally from NYC AND often travel to/from the Caribbean. Almost every time I enter the US (via air) I get the interrogation about where I am from in NY.. which, unless you are from there, makes absolutely no sense. I can name any town, how the hell do you know if I'm not lying or not? :rolleyes:

 

I've been asked:

What do you do for a living?

Where are your parents from?

Why did your parents name you that name?

What does your name mean?

Are you married? (maybe this guy was just smitten :hearteyes:)

 

I'm convinced that many of these ppl are the same little punks who sooo wanted to be hall monitor as children, and now get their chance to "protect and serve"

Those "punks" are asking questions and looking for behavioral clues to determine if they need to do secondary screening. Should they choose to be punks, they can take your party to the special room and tear apart your luggage.

Those "punks" are asking questions and looking for behavioral clues to determine if they need to do secondary screening. Should they choose to be punks, they can take your party to the special room and tear apart your luggage.

People who abuse their positions are punks.

If someone wants to waste time rifling through my dirty laundry g’head. 🤷🏽*♀️🤷🏽*♀️.

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I have a similar situation. I am traveling with my 16 year old son his first cruise on 4/15 and his father is not in the picture and I have not spoken to him in 12 years. I am not even sure if hes alive or not. So my TA called Carnival to ask what to do when a letter can't be obtained. He was told that if I could not get a letter, then I had to have a court document saying that I had full and legal custody of the child. To which I had. So in case anyone has issues obtaining this letter. There is always options. But it is always best to call and get things verified before you do any type of travel.

That's interesting...because I made it a habit to travel with my dead husband's death certificate and my son's valid passport until he turned 18. You have to have the death certificate anyway to get the passport/renewal (depending on timing of death) and you need a death certificate to do a million different things for the estate. If you do any research at all about traveling outside the US, it makes perfect sense that this should be a document you have with you.

 

It doesn't excuse rudeness, but I also do not think it is "heartless" - the children are aware that there father is dead and will live with all those implications for the rest of their life. I appreciate your friend's less than happy experience, but the reality is she was the one that had the power to prevent it and I am sure her attitude with border patrol didn't help.

My sister in law passed away from breast cancer and my brother in law and their teenage kids often cruised with our extended family. He always brought her death certificate when traveling with the kids on the recommendation of his travel agent. RCCL asked for the notarized letter from the absent parent nearly every time he sailed and he always gave them the death certificate. Carnival never asked for anything, yet it was on the return from Carnival cruises that CPB asked for the letter. Several of the CBP officers started out surly, but as soon as they saw the death certificate they changed their tone, offered condolences and they were quickly processed through.