Big ships biggest failure, or, ship within a ship: haven: NCL's worst decision.

Our first NCL cruise was the BA. It was a great trip, but between the Haven and the many upcharge dining venues, it felt as if a good bit of the ship was "not for us". Our next NCL cruise is on the Gem. Even though we cruise more for the destinations, I think I will enjoy the Gem so much more.

Not sure what you mean by ultra suites. To me that means better than what was on there before. Marketing (IMO) created DOS on deck 12 which are a higher category but routinely sell for or less than a S4 on Star/Dawn. The other suites were actually new class of new category suites that are actually at entry level suite prices. So I don't see anything ultra about the suites added on 12 and the area is accessible by anyone. There are even inside rooms on 12 plus a library and a couple meeting rooms.

S4 should have been SC.

This is of course an editorial/ opinion, but I'm looking for a discussion on the matter. I've only sailed NCL, and at that only 2 ships, the Gem, a 2000 passenger ship, and the Breakaway, a 4000 passenger ship. My first cruise was on the Gem and we loved it. We followed it up with a cruise on the Breakaway, and were very disappointed. Our question to ourselves was: was the Gem really superior, or was it just that it was our first cruise and the novelty of it was all that it was to make us think the Gem was superior? So we went back on the Gem, and as it would be, have been on it 6 times since. The Gem is/was everything we were enamored with the first time. We are quite sure of it.

 

So that brought me to trying to figure out why, what should of been basically the same experience, was so drastically different. Why was the Breakaway such a disappointment? In a nutshell, the ship is nowhere big enough to accommodate 4000 guests in terms of common space and secondly, with almost 1/3 of the common space shut off from non-haven passengers or used up by a larger casino, The Breakaway's usable space was actually smaller than the Gem

 

Where the Breakaway absolutely needed to be bigger but was actually smaller:

1) sunning areas: while the deck area is 30% bigger on the Breakaway, with DOUBLE the number of people you can't get away with 30% increase. In actuality, the haven had private sun decks taking up almost 30% of the sunning area so in fact, the Breakaway basically does nothing other than double the number of people trying to share an already crowded area. Now we are not casino people, and quite frankly with the smoking allowed in the casino, we actively avoid it. On the Gem, not an issue the casino was on a lower deck out of the way. The Breakaway puts the Casino in the middle of everything, very difficult to circumnavigate, and worst of all, the smoke permeates a good deal of the common areas outside of the casino. Us like others, where now crammed in areas to avoid the cigarette smoke, the grand 3 story staircase? didn't want to go near it for all the cigarette smoke.

2) elevators: with double the number of people, you would need double the number of elevators right? actually you need even more than that. The Gem has 3 less floors of stairs to walk to get from the top to the bottom. on floor 8 where we stay, its 1 floor down to the main entertainment deck/dining, or 4 up to the sunning areas. We never took an elevator down from our room we just walked. this was not the case in the Breakaway where it was 4 up and 4 down, so we increased the demand of elevator use. Now you have double the number of people, and increased their dependency on elevators, how do you reduce the number of elevator banks from 3 to 2??? You do it by making people queue at the elevators.

3) the main theater for shows: Gem, theater has 1000 seats for 2000 passengers. Breakaway: theater has 800 seats for 4000 passengers. This one is the most obvious.

 

What really spurred on this post/rant is I saw today the announcement for the newest and last of the NCL's 4000 passenger ships, the Encore and noticed something very interesting. It was very telling, Remember my big complaint about common space not being enough on the 4000 passenger ship? Well I couldn't help notice that the plans for Encore have changed: Here is the original plan for the 15th floor of the Encore:

 

 

 

 

 

 

and the new one just released by NCL:

 

 

They clearly recognized the problem with the shortage of common space on the mega-ships. This also fits into my other big complaint about the Breakaway as there was no Spinnaker lounge on the ship. This change is in the 15th floor reverses that problem as well adding a 180 degree view forward lounge, my favorite on the Gem, missing on the Breakaway, and in further irony, was the removed from the Dawn to put in haven suites on the Dawn back when NCL came up with this ship within a ship fiasco.

 

I've also talked with the planners of NCL. After this mega-ship, the new ones are being scaled back to 3000 passenger ships if you look at what the 2020 and on ships that are being planned are.

Interesting you have actually talked with the planners on what type of ships they are building in the future.

I think many of us are not happy with the mega ships, yes, they can feel very crowded but they go out full most of the time and some people cruise them over and over. I for one, prefer the smaller ships, yet there seems to be a place for every size, just like other Cruise companies that are turning to mega ships. It must be working or the industry would not continue building them.

Having been on the Escape and Away ships, both in the Haven and not, we enjoyed our cruises on them as much as we have on the smaller ships. Yes, a Spinnaker-like space on these big ships would be great, but—at least for us—this and crowded pool decks aren’t a big deal.

 

 

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Bliss will have "Obsevation Lounge" , which is a nice change of pace. Bar /windows on 3 sides on Deck 15.

We love the mega ships, especially RCCL! There is a reason the Oasis class RCCL ships are their most popular ships, and they keep building more. The big ships have the absolute best entertainment, I guess because they can afford it. The small ships seem cramped and the entertainment is usually so so, while the Oasis class ships are wide open and airy.

Looking forward to seeing the Jersey Boys on the Bliss in October!

The only big ship I’ve been on has been the Epic and I’m not a fan. I think the Dawn Class and Jewel Class are the perfect size.

We happen to share your views; we have been on 3 mega ships: one Princess and both the Epic and Breakaway. I do however understand many people love mega ships, they offer such a variety of activities.

Oh, BTW, where did you get the class Dawn class. Unless I have been missing something, there is no Dawn class. Class identification started with the Jewel class I believe.

The Breakaway is the WORST NCL ship out there! End of story. I've sailed exclusively NCL and the biggest disappointment was the Breakaway. I will NEVER sail that particular ship again and I would implore people to consider giving the other ships a chance. For whatever reason that particular ship is a nightmare on many levels.

Overcrowded, too many smoking areas, POOR service in the restaurants... the list goes on and on. I've never had this kind of service on any of the other NCL ships and in talking to others on board they were 100% in agreement - the Breakaway is a DUD.

The Breakaway is the WORST NCL ship out there! End of story. I've sailed exclusively NCL and the biggest disappointment was the Breakaway. I will NEVER sail that particular ship again and I would implore people to consider giving the other ships a chance. For whatever reason that particular ship is a nightmare on many levels.

 

Overcrowded, too many smoking areas, POOR service in the restaurants... the list goes on and on. I've never had this kind of service on any of the other NCL ships and in talking to others on board they were 100% in agreement - the Breakaway is a DUD.

The service was great on our cruise and she never felt overcrowded.

I would probably agree with that. However once I get to the price level of the Haven, there is no way I'd be on ship that is modeled after a shopping mall. At that price, I'm on the Queen Mary, barefoot cruise, or some luxury line, not NCL/RCCL/... other mass produced cruise lines. At that price I doubt I'd be even on a 2000 passenger ship.

For us the Haven is a terrific family solution for those of us who travel with our kids. We started when it was The Courtyard and our children in grade school. Now they are teens , 2 in college and the mega ship atmosphere is enjoyed by all of us.

We are priced out of luxury lines; even plain old RCCL has made the cost of their suites inaccessible. They Haven is in our price range, we have the escape to the Haven lounge areas that we need , personalized service if we do choose and a few perks such as early disembarkation that we utilize.

I think the concept was outstanding. NCL, however, inaccurately markets it as some sort of Shanghai-la paradise which it definitely is not. We find it a more peaceful venue with larger rooms and terrific food close by.

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Part of the issue with BA is the itinerary and time of year. I was in The Haven in mid March. When it’s cold (and it was about 4 of the 7 days) people are inside. It’s more crowded. I’ve sailed on the Spirit, Star and BA. suites every time. I loved the Haven, but understand it’s not for everyone. I didn’t love the huge boat compared to the Spirit and Star. But any day on a cruise boat is great. I understand people thinking too much space is spent on the Haven, but if people are willing to pay the price they will keep offering it. I don’t think Carnival has a space like that as an option so maybe that’s a better choose for some.

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We happen to share your views; we have been on 3 mega ships: one Princess and both the Epic and Breakaway. I do however understand many people love mega ships, they offer such a variety of activities.

 

Oh, BTW, where did you get the class Dawn class. Unless I have been missing something, there is no Dawn class. Class identification started with the Jewel class I believe.

Dawn/Star

We happen to share your views; we have been on 3 mega ships: one Princess and both the Epic and Breakaway. I do however understand many people love mega ships, they offer such a variety of activities.

 

Oh, BTW, where did you get the class Dawn class. Unless I have been missing something, there is no Dawn class. Class identification started with the Jewel class I believe.

Norwegian Dawn was the second in a line of two ships with this design, constructed at Meyer Werft Shipyard in Papenburg, Germany. Her sister ship is Norwegian Star, which entered service in November 2001. At the time of their order with Meyer Werft, these two ships were designated as Libra-class (Dawn-class in NCL publicity, as the Libra-class designation was because of its original assignment by Star Cruises until they were assigned to NCL operations). NCL continued using the same class designation for these ships.[11] Her original designated name was Superstar Scorpio, when destined for Star Cruises.

I totally appreciate you Haven folk- you make it possible for me to pick up my $350 inside guarantee when the after-final-payment fire sale starts. I don't have a drinks package or a wifi or a specialty dining or a butler or a dedicated pool. What I do have is a hotel room for 5-7 days, transportation to a group of destinations, dining on demand in any of the standard dining rooms, pub style places, or a buffet, any drink I would like to pay for (pro-tip- a $1 bill tip will get you a double pour) without a fixed amount of gratuity per day. With the $2000+ I don't spend on a suite, I can pay for a specialty dinner if I want, buy the cocktails I choose to drink, have a spa pass, have a massage and on and on and get subsidized by the rest of you- serious!

So thank you- serious- for being willing to pay these very high rates for a suite and a butler and a private pool- it allows those of us in steerage to travel more often to a wide array of places and still fully enjoy all the very same boat has to offer.

I totally appreciate you Haven folk- you make it possible for me to pick up my $350 inside guarantee when the after-final-payment fire sale starts. I don't have a drinks package or a wifi or a specialty dining or a butler or a dedicated pool. What I do have is a hotel room for 5-7 days, transportation to a group of destinations, dining on demand in any of the standard dining rooms, pub style places, or a buffet, any drink I would like to pay for (pro-tip- a $1 bill tip will get you a double pour) without a fixed amount of gratuity per day. With the $2000+ I don't spend on a suite, I can pay for a specialty dinner if I want, buy the cocktails I choose to drink, have a spa pass, have a massage and on and on and get subsidized by the rest of you- serious!

So thank you- serious- for being willing to pay these very high rates for a suite and a butler and a private pool- it allows those of us in steerage to travel more often to a wide array of places and still fully enjoy all the very same boat has to offer.

I think this is a good way to think about it! (y)

I totally appreciate you Haven folk- you make it possible for me to pick up my $350 inside guarantee when the after-final-payment fire sale starts. I don't have a drinks package or a wifi or a specialty dining or a butler or a dedicated pool. What I do have is a hotel room for 5-7 days, transportation to a group of destinations, dining on demand in any of the standard dining rooms, pub style places, or a buffet, any drink I would like to pay for (pro-tip- a $1 bill tip will get you a double pour) without a fixed amount of gratuity per day. With the $2000+ I don't spend on a suite, I can pay for a specialty dinner if I want, buy the cocktails I choose to drink, have a spa pass, have a massage and on and on and get subsidized by the rest of you- serious!

So thank you- serious- for being willing to pay these very high rates for a suite and a butler and a private pool- it allows those of us in steerage to travel more often to a wide array of places and still fully enjoy all the very same boat has to offer.

Everything you say is true! And while you may not spend nearly as much on a cabin as others, your on board spending for all of the items you mentioned.... spa pass, specialty restaurants, a la carte cocktails vs. UBP, spa treatments.... It's that spending that makes you a valued customer.

From personal experience, I would never cruise a NCL Mega ship without being in the Haven!

 

 

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We have truly enjoyed the Haven as well; and with a teenager with us, we still have the activities available for her that would not be available on the true luxury ships mentioned. We've been on Epic, Getaway, Pearl and Escape and I wouldn't do the cruise without being in the Haven so you have some space and luxury. I did a very thorough write up at https://gotravellife.com/2018/01/03/about-us/ if you're interested. We sailed in December on Getaway. Happy to answer any questions as well. Thanks.