Discrimination Against Non US and Canadian Citizens!

Hi

I am rather peeved at the moment. I cruised on the Eurodam in Dec 2017, loved every minute. I have been researching another cruise and I have found out that there are significant differences in what a US and Canadian citizen pay and what the rest of us pay.

I priced an Alaska cruise on the Amsterdam on a number of UK TA and HALs website. I then looked at a couple of US sites where the price was significantly lower, approx £1500 ($2078.10) for the same cabin. Some cabins were even £2000 (2770.80) cheaper. I enquired and was told 'Unfortunately we are only permitted to sellHolland America and Princess cruises to residence of the USA and Canada.' apparantly this is HALs policy.

I feel this is nothing less than discrimation on HALs part. Why the hell should I pay nearly twice as much for a HAL cruise as a US or Canadian citizen. I can however book other cruise lines with these companies

If HAL were an EU company, this would have been illegal, alas, they are a US company...

You can always try give a fake a US residence though, tell them an adress of friends or a condo you might own...Then afterwards, do the checkin online . I have heard that this does work but I am not sure what HAL can do against it.

.....I feel this is nothing less than discrimation on HALs part. Why the hell should I pay nearly twice as much for a HAL cruise as a US or Canadian citizen. I can however book other cruise lines with these companies

You don't need to pay, if you choose not to, simply walk away and sail on another cruiseline!;)

For the record, our experience of booking in the UK is different from yours. On our upcoming Westerdam cruise, the pricing has been broadly similar on both sides of the pond. Like you, we often use a US agent/website if the price is better but that is not always the case....and sometimes the UK price is better. We call that "swings and roundabouts" and don't stress about the things we cannot change e.g. HAL policy on where UK residents can and cannot book.

There is no requirement in the United States for pricing to be consistent from customer to customer. The only requirement is that the difference not be due to being a member of one of several protected classes. None of the protected classes have anything to do with where you reside.

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Just book with a US agent

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Exactly. Book with a US agent.

We have booked travel products, including cruises directly with agents in Australia, Europe, and South Africa for the same reason. Discriminatory pricing. Now, we always shop and are sometimes surprised at the differences-positive and negative.

It happens with many consumer items. I recently ordered a Braun part from Ireland because the landed cost in Canada was exactly half the recommended retail price in Canada.

I would book with a US agent if I could find one that will book a HAL cruise for a non US or Canadian citizen. The 2 I have tried say HAL won't let them. I'll see if I can find anymore to get quotes from

Just had another reply from a US agent'

Thank you forcontacting me. I would love to book you on a wonderful Alaskan cruise,but Holland America is one of those cruise lines I can not help you with. Princess and Holland America have this "international law" rule thatI can not get around.

I remember a thread discussing this a few months ago about the exposure a cruise line is subjected to when they directly sell to consumers in the UK or the EU or both (I seem to remember maybe even Australia was involved). Apparently, if they were to sell direct then they have some Financial liability in case of itinerary changes and such. I don't remember whether the bottom line was that selling through some dedicated Channel they're able to insulate themselves from that liability or rather that they charge more to cover the additional liability to which the government subjects them.

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I feel this is nothing less than discrimination on HALs part.

The O.P. has apparently never been the victim of discrimination.

Nothing, but nothing sets back the fight against true discrimination faster than claims such as this.

Pricing differences are not due to discrimination, rather business practices, financial regulations, Market forces, Client demographics.

From what I understand, there are protections in place for those that book in the U.K. (Not sure about Europe).

When we were on our O cruise, there were a lot of people very unhappy. Many of them were O regulars.

Some of the cruisers from the UK were suing O and doing some sort of class action. There are apparently some protections in place for them allowing them to do this which we don't have here.

So, different rules = different pricing I think?

From what I understand, there are protections in place for those that book in the U.K. (Not sure about Europe).

 

When we were on our O cruise, there were a lot of people very unhappy. Many of them were O regulars.

 

Some of the cruisers from the UK were suing O and doing some sort of class action. There are apparently some protections in place for them allowing them to do this which we don't have here.

 

So, different rules = different pricing I think?

Very much so about the UK protections. Our favorite "other cruise line", British based Voyages of Discovery, suddenly terminated business a few years ago, leaving hundreds of passengers literally adrift. The UK passengers (on CC) were so sanguine about this event, since they knew they were fully covered, even though the cruise line was facing bankruptcy. It was interesting to observe the different reactions between the UK passengers and everyone else. Subsequent posts showed they got their refunds with no hassles and did not have to become creditors in a bankruptcy hearing, hoping for a few cents on the dollar years later.

Some of the cruisers from the UK were suing O and doing some sort of class action.

When I read of people who are huffing and puffing and going to take legal action, I'm reminded of a saying from years ago along the lines of "When Everything is Said and Done, Usually More is Said Than Done".

Lots of people say lots of things, make lots of threats, but when it comes to actually paying a solicitor review the circumstances, few seem interested in following through.

There are of course numerous regulatory bodies responsible for fair trade, but once again any complaints I heard of are dismissed. Why ? Because of course the Companies are complying with fair trade requirements.

There is no requirement in the United States for pricing to be consistent from customer to customer. The only requirement is that the difference not be due to being a member of one of several protected classes. None of the protected classes have anything to do with where you reside.

.

And an example of this is my hubby often gets better pricing on cruises than I do.

Nothing, but nothing sets back the fight against true discrimination faster than claims such as this.

So, different rules = different pricing I think?

Hi

I am rather peeved at the moment. I cruised on the Eurodam in Dec 2017, loved every minute. I have been researching another cruise and I have found out that there are significant differences in what a US and Canadian citizen pay and what the rest of us pay.

I priced an Alaska cruise on the Amsterdam on a number of UK TA and HALs website. I then looked at a couple of US sites where the price was significantly lower, approx £1500 ($2078.10) for the same cabin. Some cabins were even £2000 (2770.80) cheaper. I enquired and was told 'Unfortunately we are only permitted to sellHolland America and Princess cruises to residence of the USA and Canada.' apparantly this is HALs policy.

I feel this is nothing less than discrimation on HALs part. Why the hell should I pay nearly twice as much for a HAL cruise as a US or Canadian citizen. I can however book other cruise lines with these companies

I suggest that you do some serious research about this. The blame does not fall on Princes or HAL. They are complying with laws, codes, rules in place by the UK. An experienced UK travel agent will be able to explain it to you.

I would book with a US agent if I could find one that will book a HAL cruise for a non US or Canadian citizen. The 2 I have tried say HAL won't let them. I'll see if I can find anymore to get quotes from

Are you trying to book cruise air through the cruise line? You need to book your own air, or have a travel agent assist you.

I have met tons of non US citizens booking through a US agent on every cruise. Keep looking.

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From what I understand, there are protections in place for those that book in the U.K. (Not sure about Europe).

 

 

 

When we were on our O cruise, there were a lot of people very unhappy. Many of them were O regulars.

 

 

 

Some of the cruisers from the UK were suing O and doing some sort of class action. There are apparently some protections in place for them allowing them to do this which we don't have here.

 

 

 

So, different rules = different pricing I think?

Suing based on what?

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Very much so about the UK protections. Our favorite "other cruise line", British based Voyages of Discovery, suddenly terminated business a few years ago, leaving hundreds of passengers literally adrift. The UK passengers (on CC) were so sanguine about this event, since they knew they were fully covered, even though the cruise line was facing bankruptcy. It was interesting to observe the different reactions between the UK passengers and everyone else. Subsequent posts showed they got their refunds with no hassles and did not have to become creditors in a bankruptcy hearing, hoping for a few cents on the dollar years later.

Wouldn’t US passengers just go through their credit card to get a refund?

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Wouldn’t US passengers just go through their credit card to get a refund?

 

 

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Good point, but it appears there might be only a 60 day window after the charge was made to make this short of claim according to this link: https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-protection-travel-plans-1282.php

I was able to get a cruise deposit back through my credit card after the travel agency went bankrupt due to Post 9-11 cancelations. Nothing like having a post-9-11 Red Sea cruise booked before 9-11. I was also getting a claim processed through bankruptcy court and they had to adjust between the two.

We are in the UK with UK Passports and have booked our next HAL Cruise to Alaska with a US Agency. Yes we had to pay an ‘International Fee’ but it was still cheaper than booking with a UK Agency.

If you wish contact me at bouffanttoursattiscalidotcodotuk.

No issue. Simply don't select Princess or HAL. They are not the only game in town.

Our Australian/NZ cruise was 33 percent less expensive simply by booking directly with RCI Australia vs our on line US TA. We were thinking of Princess however the price differerence and the level of service from the RCI agent and the savings clinched the deal for us.

Sometimes all that you need is an accomodation address in the country where you are booking. We discovered this with several UK bookings even though CoOp Travel would good enough to return our phone calls from Canada and accept/process the orders.

I can understand a point or two. We have jurisdictions in Canada that have the same sort of travel product protection as some countries mentioned. The difference for that insurance amounts to a point or two, certainly no higher.

You do have to be aware of the T's and C's though.

Very simple reason why the cruise lines go to the length that they do to block international sales. A critical component for determining if a given country's consumer protection laws apply is if the cruise deal (pricing and terms) is offered for sale in the given country. By not allowing people to book under a different countries offer make it quite clear that it is not for sale in their country and those consumer protection laws do not apply.

Thus for example, the US deal is not for sale in the UK and if someone from the UK works around the restriction and buys it, it is clear that UK laws/protections do not apply.

The point is that not all cruise lines practice discriminatory pricing. We have booked RCI and Celebrity cruises in other countries in order to take advantage of lower pricing.

Just those cruise lines that want to take advantage of customers through discriminatory pricing. Most hotel chains stopped doing this years ago.

In both cases there was no issue whatsoever. They had all of our details in their system. We simply provided our customer numbers.

As I recall, when we purchased in the UK we were asked about residency. Seems to me that we got an extra one percent discount because the ABTA or whatever insurance did not cover us. This is actually a non issue since we always pay with our credit cards. They provide a degree of protection and insurance.

We travel frequently. Usually at least four months of international travel each year. We greatly resent being ripped off by firms that practice discriminatory pricing. We either find a way around it or we will not do business with the supplier. We do not want to encourage this behaviour. We can understand a few points but not anything in the mid teens and above.

There are reasons why some cruise lines have tighter policies than others. For example, because of the cruise lines they have purchased, CCL has established corporate entities in the UK (for example P&O, Cunard) and Australia (for example CCL Australia, P&O Australia). That requires a tighter degree of separation between US and other offers as far as the offered for sale issue since they have a local corporate presence. RCL does not have a similar degree of corporate presence.

When one looks at pricing a company needs to take into account of number of factors that may drive differences in pricing between countries including but not limited to consumer protection regulation risk, currency exchange risk, competitive environment, market share goals, etc. Competitive environment not only includes other cruise lines, but other holiday options as well.

Hotels are basically all local products. The fees are based upon a given hotel location. Though I have found that hotels in the UK and Australia tend to cost more than similar properties in the US. Though if you purchase your hotel room as part of a package that includes travel then travel consumer protection laws apply and you are likely to see differences between countries. If you just purchase the hotel room by itself then the regulations of the country in which it is located apply, no matter where you make your reservation from.

I have found substantial pricing differences in some airlines based upon location where one lives. For example I can not purchase a ticket on Air New Zealand using the in country fares, that tend to less than that charged to someone from the US.

The primary places where you have national differences offered are exactly those that are impacted by differences in national regulations. Travel is a major example of this.