Royal Princess Misses April 30 Disembarkation in LeHavre

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#41
Raleigh, N.C.
13,377 Posts
Joined Jul 2002
We're booked for the trans-Atlantic in September from Southampton. Some passengers start a day earlier with embarkation in Le Havre. I guess if the ship misses Le Havre, they could embark in Rotterdam if they couldn't get to Southampton in time.
#42
Manchester UK
1,203 Posts
Joined Oct 2006
Regardless of the fine print, that Princess thinks it is acceptable to disembark passengers in a different country with no obligation to get them to their destination seems immoral.
I have just been reading the passage contract that Princess issues here in the UK and it seems to be different to the US. Princess are legally required to comply with the Package Tour Regulations 1992 which has provision for the obligations of the provider when a significant change occurs - even if that change is as a result of force majeure. In such circumstances, ‘the provider will provide equivalent transport back to the place of departure or to another place to which the passenger has agreed......
Obviously, the passenger must be reasonable in their demands but to ask to be taken to the contracted port of disembarkation seems to me to be perfectly reasonable. As usual, what is reasonable is determined by the courts.


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#43
2 Posts
Joined Jul 2010
Originally posted by tv24
We thought of the Chunnel train, but there were several problems. First, there have been rolling strikes in France that have affected lots of transport including SNCF, the intercity trains including the Chunnel (Eurostar), so we were not sure if April 30 would be a strike day. Next, the internet on board did not work and the telephone codes for using the ship's phones did not work so we were unable to explore options. Finally, we are growing old and have lots of luggage so the prospect of schlepping 4 suitcases and 2 carry-ons from Southampton to Heathrow (via Princess's shuttle), and then from Heathrow to St. Pancras Station, then on to the Eurostar train (which isn't easy; we've done it), was more than a bit overwhelming. So when I finally succeeded at buying air tickets from BA that got me to Paris CDG direct on the 30th, I jumped at the opportunity. Not a good time and space to be shopping around for the cheapest alternative.
We also went through this same thought process and same challenges and went ahead and booked BA flights to Paris in business class as that’s all that was available to get there on the 30th. My husband had a prepaid private Normandy tour starting at 6:30am on May 1. With all of the internet and phone challenges, along with the fend-for-yourself approach by Princess, I considered less-expensive options only to quickly dismiss them for the extra hassles we’d have with having to figure out train stations, luggage handling, etc for my husband, my 83-year-old other and myself. We also booked a car service to pick us up at CDG at a much higher cost than planned (we had booked the Princess transfer service from LeHavre into the city) but I wanted an easy transport from the airport to our Paris hotel after such a long day of hassles and almost no sleep on the night of notice.

We do have the Princess insurance plan though booked our own flights. Funnily enough, though not funny at all, I’m writing this from Chicago O’Hare where we’ve been struck for going on 18 hours due to a flight that had one delay after another until we got another late-night notice of a diversion. Our inbound plane went to Milwaukee to avoid a storm in Chicago and we’re in a fend-for-yourself situation again as the airlines won’t cover hotels, food, ground transportation when due to weather.

It’s been a very expensive end to our trip and we’re not home yet :-(
#44
13,600 Posts
Joined Apr 2013
Originally posted by carolynnm
We also went through this same thought process and same challenges and went ahead and booked BA flights to Paris in business class as that’s all that was available to get there on the 30th. My husband had a prepaid private Normandy tour starting at 6:30am on May 1. With all of the internet and phone challenges, along with the fend-for-yourself approach by Princess, I considered less-expensive options only to quickly dismiss them for the extra hassles we’d have with having to figure out train stations, luggage handling, etc for my husband, my 83-year-old other and myself. We also booked a car service to pick us up at CDG at a much higher cost than planned (we had booked the Princess transfer service from LeHavre into the city) but I wanted an easy transport from the airport to our Paris hotel after such a long day of hassles and almost no sleep on the night of notice.

We do have the Princess insurance plan though booked our own flights. Funnily enough, though not funny at all, I’m writing this from Chicago O’Hare where we’ve been struck for going on 18 hours due to a flight that had one delay after another until we got another late-night notice of a diversion. Our inbound plane went to Milwaukee to avoid a storm in Chicago and we’re in a fend-for-yourself situation again as the airlines won’t cover hotels, food, ground transportation when due to weather.

It’s been a very expensive end to our trip and we’re not home yet :-(
Good luck with the insurance covering what you feel is appropriate. Hope you are home safely by now.
#45
New Cumberland,PA, USA
30,168 Posts
Joined May 2000
Having recently gotten a "deviation" here is the actual process and language. You should make the request (pre cruise) from Princess which can be done directly or through a cruise agent. If Princess agrees to your deviation (early disembarkation) they will send you a completed form which is titled "REQUEST FOR DEVIATION FROM SCHEDULED CRUISE ITINERARY." And the first item on this form says the following: "Princess Cruises is not responsible for missed cruises or any expenses incurred getting to or from the next port of call if the ship does not arrive at the requested port of embarkation or disembarkation, or if the ship is delayed for any reason."

Enough said .

Hank
#46
Wales GB
823 Posts
Joined Jan 2011
Originally posted by Hlitner
Having recently gotten a "deviation" here is the actual process and language. You should make the request (pre cruise) from Princess which can be done directly or through a cruise agent. If Princess agrees to your deviation (early disembarkation) they will send you a completed form which is titled "REQUEST FOR DEVIATION FROM SCHEDULED CRUISE ITINERARY." And the first item on this form says the following: "Princess Cruises is not responsible for missed cruises or any expenses incurred getting to or from the next port of call if the ship does not arrive at the requested port of embarkation or disembarkation, or if the ship is delayed for any reason."

Enough said .

Hank
Am I not understanding this correctly ?

I thought there was NO deviation from the cruise itinerary. I was under the impression the cruise TV24 booked terminated in Le Havre. It was a 14 day cruise. The cruise terminating in Southampton was a 15 day cruise,

Hopefully the Op will come back and update.
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#47
3,521 Posts
Joined Dec 2010
Originally posted by Omega1
Regardless of the fine print, that Princess thinks it is acceptable to disembark passengers in a different country with no obligation to get them to their destination seems immoral.
I have just been reading the passage contract that Princess issues here in the UK and it seems to be different to the US. Princess are legally required to comply with the Package Tour Regulations 1992 which has provision for the obligations of the provider when a significant change occurs - even if that change is as a result of force majeure. In such circumstances, ‘the provider will provide equivalent transport back to the place of departure or to another place to which the passenger has agreed......
Obviously, the passenger must be reasonable in their demands but to ask to be taken to the contracted port of disembarkation seems to me to be perfectly reasonable. As usual, what is reasonable is determined by the courts.


Yes the UK contract is different from the US version and does include some language driven by PTR1992. All we need is someone that purchased under UK terms that was scheduled to leave in LaHavre (unlikely since most uk passengers would end in Southampton) to see if they were treated any differently.
#48
Oakland, CA USA
2,197 Posts
Joined Jan 2013
Originally posted by Reina del Mar
Am I not understanding this correctly ?

I thought there was NO deviation from the cruise itinerary. I was under the impression the cruise TV24 booked terminated in Le Havre. It was a 14 day cruise. The cruise terminating in Southampton was a 15 day cruise,

Hopefully the Op will come back and update.
Here is TV24, hopefully the OP. We purchased a 14-day crossing from Ft. Lauderdale to LeHavre. Southampton was definitely not on our official itinerary. Hope this helps with a clarification.

We are still waiting to hear anything from AON, the insurance carrier, but that will take a while. Also waiting to hear if ou TA receives any response from Princess. I promise to let you know.
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#49
Coastal North Carolina
7,427 Posts
Joined Jul 2006
Good luck OP. You seem so cool and rational in a very stressful situation.

I can kind of understand Princess not going out of their way to help a passenger who independently chose to disembark a stop early (we are doing a British Isles cruise Southampton round trip and I’m sure some are disembarking a day early in LeHavre).

But not helping or compensating those who Booked a cruise to end in LeHavre and then being taken elsewhere. Unbelievable. I hope your TA is able to get this resolved and you are able to submit receipts for out of pocket expenses to Princess and have them be reimbursed. This is the right thing for Princess to do.


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#50
France
402 Posts
Joined Apr 2013
I was booked on the may 12 british isles cruise departing from Le Havre, and NO it is NOT a "deviation" : the cruise was sold from Le Havre to Le Havre, Le Havre is an "official" embarking/disembarking port for British Isles during the whole 2018 season and, in France, Princess made a lot of publicity about it.
I was very sad because, a few days ago, I had to cancel my cruise for a very serious health problem. This cruise should have been my first with Princess, but reading this, it will be my last booking with them too : I'm horrified by the way they handled the problem. I was on the QEII when she had an accident in Bar Harbour : Cunard immediately organized everything for passengers (complimentary hotel nights, complimentary plane return to London and future cruise vouchers). What a lack of class and respect toward passengers from Princess! All my sympathy to passengers who should disembark/embark in Le Havre.


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#51
Oakland, CA USA
2,197 Posts
Joined Jan 2013
Originally posted by sunsetbeachgal
Good luck OP. You seem so cool and rational in a very stressful situation.

I can kind of understand Princess not going out of their way to help a passenger who independently chose to disembark a stop early (we are doing a British Isles cruise Southampton round trip and I’m sure some are disembarking a day early in LeHavre).

But not helping or compensating those who Booked a cruise to end in LeHavre and then being taken elsewhere. Unbelievable. I hope your TA is able to get this resolved and you are able to submit receipts for out of pocket expenses to Princess and have them be reimbursed. This is the right thing for Princess to do.


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#52
3,521 Posts
Joined Dec 2010
Originally posted by Al54
I was booked on the may 12 british isles cruise departing from Le Havre, and NO it is NOT a "deviation" : the cruise was sold from Le Havre to Le Havre, Le Havre is an "official" embarking/disembarking port for British Isles during the whole 2018 season and, in France, Princess made a lot of publicity about it.
I was very sad because, a few days ago, I had to cancel my cruise for a very serious health problem. This cruise should have been my first with Princess, but reading this, it will be my last booking with them too : I'm horrified by the way they handled the problem. I was on the QEII when she had an accident in Bar Harbour : Cunard immediately organized everything for passengers (complimentary hotel nights, complimentary plane return to London and future cruise vouchers). What a lack of class and respect toward passengers from Princess! All my sympathy to passengers who should disembark/embark in Le Havre.


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Of course keep in mind that the Cunard incident was not weather but an accident that could be considered to be the fault of the cruise line. In those case the cruise line must provide assistance. if Princess had missed La Havre due to a mechanical issue, instead of weather they would have had to provide for the passengers.
#53
666 Posts
Joined Jan 2004
Originally posted by tv24
So here's our story: We bought the Princess Royal cruise as a crossing that would allow us to disembark in LeHavre. We had independent plans to travel to Paris, stay in Paris for a month, and then move on to Amsterdam with an eventual return to the States on HAL's Rotterdam.

The Captain announced at 9:30 the night before arrival in LeHavre that LeHavre would be missed due to severe weather and that passengers scheduled to disembark would receive a letter offering options. We received our letter that offered us a free shuttle to Heathrow Airport, 30 minutes of internet time, and codes that would allow us to use the ship's phones to make international calls. In the chaos that ensued, we struggled to buy air tickets for the 30th to fly Heathrow to Paris. The internet didn't work, probably because of too many users. The phones didn't work. The concierge was not on duty. So I joined the chaos at Passenger Services and was told that since I had not booked return air on Princess Air, I was on my own. Finally a staff person hooked me up to a house phone in the lobby where I was able to call British Air to buy 2 tickets to fly to Paris CDG. Because we have luggage, a low-cost option was not possible. The cost was $1,053. We did make it to Paris, but totally exhausted and stressed out. Hardly the "Return New" that the Princess motto promises.

I started this thread to ask what happened to the others. On the shuttle to Heathrow we heard a few bizarre tales of the Princess Air arrangements, of folks offered flights to Paris with stopovers in Zurich, Milan, and Moscow. One disabled couple was to arrive in Milan very late and told to sit in the airport overnight for a connecting flight early on the morning of May 1.

I plan to file an insurance claim. Not sure what the result will be. Right now I am not happy with Princess, but maybe my attitude will change if I get some insurance money.
I'm just curious. Who was your Captain?
#55
590 Posts
Joined Sep 2013
Originally posted by Omega1
Regardless of the fine print, that Princess thinks it is acceptable to disembark passengers in a different country with no obligation to get them to their destination seems immoral.
I have just been reading the passage contract that Princess issues here in the UK and it seems to be different to the US. Princess are legally required to comply with the Package Tour Regulations 1992 which has provision for the obligations of the provider when a significant change occurs - even if that change is as a result of force majeure. In such circumstances, ‘the provider will provide equivalent transport back to the place of departure or to another place to which the passenger has agreed......
Obviously, the passenger must be reasonable in their demands but to ask to be taken to the contracted port of disembarkation seems to me to be perfectly reasonable. As usual, what is reasonable is determined by the courts.


You need to take that paragraph in full, though:

38. After departure, Princess does not guarantee that the ship will call at every port on the itinerary or follow every part of the advertised route or schedule or that every part of the Package will be provided. Princess reserves the absolute right to decide whether or not to omit any such port(s) and/or to call at additional ports and/or to change the advertised route, schedule or Package. If Princess is unable to provide a significant proportion of the Package, it will make suitable alternative arrangements, at no extra cost to the Passenger, for the continuation of the Package. If the Passenger does not accept them, for good reasons, or, if it is impossible to make suitable alternative arrangements Princess will, where appropriate, provide the Passenger with transport back to the place of departure or to another place to which Princess and the Passenger have agreed. In both cases Princess will, where appropriate, compensate the Passenger. Please note that compensation will not be payable if an alteration is minor or if Princess is not able to provide a significant proportion of the Package due to force majeure.

Since weather is considered a force majeure, Princess didn't have a legal obligation to compensate. Whether they had a MORAL obligation is a whole other question....
#56
3,521 Posts
Joined Dec 2010
Originally posted by likeadisguise
You need to take that paragraph in full, though:

38. After departure, Princess does not guarantee that the ship will call at every port on the itinerary or follow every part of the advertised route or schedule or that every part of the Package will be provided. Princess reserves the absolute right to decide whether or not to omit any such port(s) and/or to call at additional ports and/or to change the advertised route, schedule or Package. If Princess is unable to provide a significant proportion of the Package, it will make suitable alternative arrangements, at no extra cost to the Passenger, for the continuation of the Package. If the Passenger does not accept them, for good reasons, or, if it is impossible to make suitable alternative arrangements Princess will, where appropriate, provide the Passenger with transport back to the place of departure or to another place to which Princess and the Passenger have agreed. In both cases Princess will, where appropriate, compensate the Passenger. Please note that compensation will not be payable if an alteration is minor or if Princess is not able to provide a significant proportion of the Package due to force majeure.


Since weather is considered a force majeure, Princess didn't have a legal obligation to compensate. Whether they had a MORAL obligation is a whole other question....
Yes and no. Force Majeure is open to interpretation. While PTR 1992 does provide some protection to the provider in case of the claim of a Force Majeure, the end point of the trip is considered to be an essential term under 1992. Also the protection of Force Majeure is only for the duration of the event. It would be rather interesting if someone was to make a claim under PTR1992 if the cruise line claim of Force Majeure for a relatively short term wind event, that did not restrict all shipping would hold up.

One could make the argument that the event did not really rise to the level of force Majeure and that sufficient alternatives did exist for the passengers to be able to be delivered to their end point.

It really comes down to Maritime law and how the courts have ruled in the past if a Captain's decision that a condition is unsafe can be considered to be Force Majeure or if it must also meet other conditions.

It is probably an academic issue, because I doubt anyone that purchased under UK terms planned to end the cruise in La Havre instead of Southampton. The EU is moving to similar protections someone might make a claim under another EU countries terms.

Now one good thing is that it is fairly standard for travel insurance to pay for weather related situations based upon the individual policy and coverage limits. If it had been mechanical then such policies general consider the provider to be responsible and the insurance would not cover.


Take the example of Force Majeure with the air line industry. It provides protection to them from having to pay compensation for claims when weather conditions delay or cancels a flight so they do not have to pay for hotels, meals etc. They are still required to honor delivery to the travelers destination as soon as possible after the weather conditions return to normal. The airline cannot just claim force majeure and say that the passenger is stuck where ever they were when the weather occured and lose any right to future travel. So it really raises the question if getting a cruise line passenger to their final destination is really compensation or if it is a requirement after the conditions resolve. Again this is strictly within the confines the the UK regulations. Under US law the cruise line can pretty much do what it wants.
#57
League City, TX
41,839 Posts
Joined Sep 2005
Originally posted by Omega1
In such circumstances, ‘the provider will provide equivalent transport back to the place of departure or to another place to which the passenger has agreed......
Obviously, the passenger must be reasonable in their demands but to ask to be taken to the contracted port of disembarkation seems to me to be perfectly reasonable. As usual, what is reasonable is determined by the courts.
Interesting it says "place of departure" and not port of disembarkation. So if you booked a cruise from Fort Lauderdale to Le Havre and had to skip Le Havre, the obligation is to get you back to Fort Lauderdale.
#58
League City, TX
41,839 Posts
Joined Sep 2005
Originally posted by sunsetbeachgal

But not helping or compensating those who Booked a cruise to end in LeHavre and then being taken elsewhere. Unbelievable.
I have seen this with an airline.

Booked from City A to City C via a connection in City B.


City B (the connecting city) was a number of miles further north than destination City C. The plane basically flew over City C on the way to the connecting city. Flight arrived at connecting City B after last flight of day to City C, so rented a car to get from B to C that night.

When asked for a partial refund for not getting to the booked destination City C, the airline said there would be no refund. The reason was that by flying miles further than the destination city, the passenger received more value from his ticket than had been purchased.
#59
Wales GB
823 Posts
Joined Jan 2011
Originally posted by tv24
Here is TV24, hopefully the OP. We purchased a 14-day crossing from Ft. Lauderdale to LeHavre. Southampton was definitely not on our official itinerary. Hope this helps with a clarification.

We are still waiting to hear anything from AON, the insurance carrier, but that will take a while. Also waiting to hear if ou TA receives any response from Princess. I promise to let you know.
Thank you for that.
Posters keeping on about deviation were confusing me (Bear with small brain !!!)

I cannot believe Princess would put you in this position.

I hope your travel agent is able to negotiate some adequate compensation and recover all your costs. Maybe the Insurance company will come back with an offer.

Good Luck.
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#60
Manchester UK
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Joined Oct 2006
A similar situation happened to us in the late 90’s. The return flight of our package holiday to Cyprus was due to land in Machester - which was fog bound. We landed at Birmingham and in accordance with PTR1992 we were bussed back to Manchester. Clearly, force majeure would prevent us from claiming compensation for not flying us to Manchester but as RDC1 states the destination is an essential element of the contract not a minor variation.
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