Yet another "do I need travel insurance?"

I have two seven-day cruises booked next year (one Eastern Caribbean, one Rhein river), and I'm trying to figure out if I need to buy travel insurance for either or both. I have a Chase Sapphire Reserve card, which I used to pay the deposits (and will use for the remaining payments as well), and which appears to cover trip cancellation and interruption. I phoned my health insurance this afternoon, and they say the cover treatment outside the US on the same terms as within it, and they also cover medical evacuation with no limit.

The only thing I see that I'm missing is "cancel for any reason" and repatriation coverage. Am I missing something?

Do YOU feel comfortable with your coverage?

If so, you are good to go.

And unless you just booked your cruises, you probably can't get cancel for any reason. There are time limits to buy that coverage.

Booked one two days ago, the other last week, so CFAR would be available. I'd like it, in the abstract, but I'm not sure I'd like it enough to pay for a comprehensive policy for only that reason.

I generally feel comfortable with my coverage, but I recognize there's a lot I don't know that I don't know.

Who covers if your luggage doesn't make it on the plane to Europe for your river cruise? What are the allowances you get for purchasing new clothes?

Are you healthy? Are family who isn't travelling with you healthy? Would you cancel a cruise if someone got sick at home?

These things you need to think about as well.

Get travel insurance. To many horror stories of people not buying and then expecting the cruise line to give them the fare back.

Insurance is something wise people purchase even though they may never need to use it. That's how I feel. We had to cancel two Scandinavian cruises and one Caribbean cruise due to my illness, and thankfully we got back every penny. Did we think we would make a claim? Of course not. No one ever does, but that's what cancer (or any illness or misfortune) does to you - socks you in the gut and barely looks back. :(

This decision is yours of course, but I did want to relay our experience.

I have two seven-day cruises booked next year (one Eastern Caribbean, one Rhein river), and I'm trying to figure out if I need to buy travel insurance for either or both. I have a Chase Sapphire Reserve card, which I used to pay the deposits (and will use for the remaining payments as well), and which appears to cover trip cancellation and interruption. I phoned my health insurance this afternoon, and they say the cover treatment outside the US on the same terms as within it, and they also cover medical evacuation with no limit.

 

 

 

The only thing I see that I'm missing is "cancel for any reason" and repatriation coverage. Am I missing something?

You may want to be really clear about what is meant by medical evacuation (vs "ambulance" (air or otherwise).

Also some CCs will deny travel cancel/interrupt based on pre-existing conditions.

Bottom line: read the fine print and get an e-mail from the company answering your "what-if's".

You don't need it, until you need it. Three years ago my wife fell and fractured a vertebra two weeks before our booked cruise. Our trip insurance paid everything but a small booking fee. We got that back by booking another cruise within one year of the cancellation. I will never cruise without insurance.

You may want to be really clear about what is meant by medical evacuation (vs "ambulance" (air or otherwise).

According to my discussion with Blue Cross this afternoon, medical evacuation covers medically necessary transportation (by air, sea, or land, as appropriate) to the nearest suitable medical facility to provide care. It specifically does not pay to get me back home, or even back to the US.

Also some CCs will deny travel cancel/interrupt based on pre-existing conditions.

As to other questions raised here: I remember that Chase does cover baggage loss/delay, but I don't see that in their booklet at the moment--I need to look further into that. I and my close family are generally healthy--no preexisting conditions that should be an issue.

Edit: I'm seeing a few responses that seem to be misunderstanding the point of my question, or perhaps I wasn't clear in asking it. I have insurance. I have health insurance through my job (which covers us worldwide), and I have trip cancellation insurance through my credit card. My question isn't whether I should have insurance, as I already do. My question is whether I need to buy a travel insurance policy, to cover things that my existing insurance doesn't--and this thread is already raising questions I hadn't thought about.

According to my discussion with Blue Cross this afternoon, medical evacuation covers medically necessary transportation (by air, sea, or land, as appropriate) to the nearest suitable medical facility to provide care. It specifically does not pay to get me back home, or even back to the US.

 

According to the booklet from Chase, they have a 60-day lookback period for pre-existing conditions.

 

As to other questions raised here: I remember that Chase does cover baggage loss/delay, but I don't see that in their booklet at the moment--I need to look further into that. I and my close family are generally healthy--no preexisting conditions that should be an issue.

 

Edit: I'm seeing a few responses that seem to be misunderstanding the point of my question, or perhaps I wasn't clear in asking it. I have insurance. I have health insurance through my job (which covers us worldwide), and I have trip cancellation insurance through my credit card. My question isn't whether I should have insurance, as I already do. My question is whether I need to buy a travel insurance policy, to cover things that my existing insurance doesn't--and this thread is already raising questions I hadn't thought about.

No one is missing your point.

Your blue cross appears to cover "ambulance" (air or otherwise) from ship to facility that can provide emergency care (I.e., stabilization). FYI, most countries' coast Guards do not charge for this- even helicopter. Medical "evacuation" is from first land ER (stabilization) to next suitable facility (abroad or home in US) as determined by treating MD in consult with insurance company (unless you have a travel medical or comprehensive policy that allows "hospital of choice" or you have a separate evac policy like MedJet).

What you need to find out is if your home med insurance will provide what a travel med policy will do: I.e., once you are stabilized at a land facility following transport from the ship or port stop (ambulance), will the insurance pay for transfer to next facility for further treatment (I.e., evacuation).

And, if your credit card does not waive "preexisting conditions" and your trip delay/cancel is due to a new (or changed) Dx/Tx/Rx that happened within the 60 day look back period, you are SOL.

I have a Medicare supplement that turns into basic coverage (including overseas) when I leave the US. This includes at least "ambulance" (air or land) and possible further evac. based on a host of factors. My CC has trip cancel/interrupt coverage but no waiver of pre-existing conditions (during lookback period).

I still get a comprehensive travel (med/trip) policy that is primary pay for medical, has "choice of hospital" for evac and waives pre-existing conditions (as long as insurance is purchased before final cruise payment. For policies like that look at the "better" offerings from companies like Nationwide and IMG. Figure 8-10% of the cost of all non-refundable trip expenses.

We would never travel without insurance.

We take an annual Worlwide plus USA and cruise cover policy ( Not sure why USA isn't part of Worldwide but that is how it goes in UK !!)

No one is missing your point.

Yes, I think they are. Either that, or I'm greatly missing the point of most of the responses (which is certainly possible too). My question is, "do I need to buy additional travel insurance, above and beyond what I already have from my credit card and my health insurance?" Most of the replies (with yours as a notable exception) are:

We would never travel without insurance.

I will never cruise without insurance.

Insurance is something wise people purchase even though they may never need to use it.

Get travel insurance.

...and, as much as I appreciate the responses (and I do), they really don't seem to be addressing what I'm asking.

Your blue cross appears to cover "ambulance" (air or otherwise) from ship to facility that can provide emergency care (I.e., stabilization).

That's not what I understood from my conversation yesterday afternoon--the representative specifically said that "medical evacuation" was covered, and described it similarly to how you do (including describing consultation between the doctors at the facility where I was being treated at the time, and their own docs, which wouldn't seem to apply to the "ambulance" scenario). I will confirm this, though, as it's a big difference. Repatriation or hospital of choice are a separate issue, and I know Blue Cross doesn't cover those.

And, if your credit card does not waive "preexisting conditions" and your trip delay/cancel is due to a new (or changed) Dx/Tx/Rx that happened within the 60 day look back period, you are SOL.

It does not waive pre-existing conditions, though a condition that's stable on medication during that 60-day period is not considered "pre-existing" if it later takes a turn for the worse. I'm in good health and haven't had any acute problems (or aggravation of chronic problems) within the last 60 days. My wife twisted her ankle a few weeks ago, but it's recovering nicely, and she's otherwise in good health. The rest of our close family are in good health. But I guess a question would be how they'd deal with a condition that happened during the look back period, resolves, and then comes back before the trip (causing cancellation) or while on the trip (causing an interruption)--time for some reading in the plan documents on that, I think.

So, coverage that I know I don't have, but might want:

• CFAR
  
• Repatriation
  
• Hospital of choice
  
• Trip cancellation for broader specified reasons than below (e.g., auto accident on the way to the airport)
  
• Pre-existing conditions (specifically, a pre-existing condition that resolves, and then reappears; with the exception of my wife's twisted ankle that I expect will heal just fine well before our first departure, there's nothing that would interfere with travel)
  

Coverage I think I have, but need to confirm:

• Medical evacuation
  
• Lost/delayed/stolen baggage
  

Coverage I know I have:

• Medical care, with same limits/deductibles/co-pays as when in the US
  
• Trip cancellation, up to $10k/person, $20k/incident, for specified reasons (injury/death/illness, weather, military orders, terrorism, jury duty/subpoena, uninhabitable dwelling, quarantine, insolvency of TA/operator/supplier)
  
• Trip interruption, with same limits and reasons as above
  

Another thing to find out is how your BC&BS will cover you in a foreign country, and if there are differences under that coverage.

Another thing to find out is how your BC&BS will cover you in a foreign country, and if there are differences under that coverage.

Phoned them yesterday--same limits/deductibles/copays worldwide. They'll accept direct billing from the provider if the provider will do that, otherwise I front the money and file a claim with them.

 

• Lost/delayed/stolen baggage

OK, this one is now confirmed as well. Delay is covered up to $100/day for up to 5 days for essentials (clothes, toiletries, phone charging cables (but only one cable), etc.). Loss is covered up to $3000, with a sublimit of $500 for jewelry and electronics.

Card also covers (minimal) medical (limit of $2500) and medical evacuation (up to $100k).

We're in a similar boat - full medical worldwide, CC coverage for booked flights etc canceled for wide category of reasons, and medically stable at this time. We both also used to (and wife still does) work in the insurance industry. We have never bought 'cancel for any reason' insurance as the SIGNIFICANT cost of this upgrade (as already mentioned, ballpark 10% of the insured cost) is simply too high when compared to the minimal circumstances it actually applies where our existing coverage does not.

All of the risks that you don't have coverage for have a very, very small chance of cropping up - unless you feel that in total your risk of canceling your vacation is more than 1 in 10 you should just 'self insure' for these issues which will at most cost you what you've already paid for the trip and cannot claim refunds on/cancel bookings for. Maybe you have a metric buttload of sick relatives, all close enough to you that if they died you would CHOOSE to cancel a vaycay in order to attend their funeral but not covered by the usual insurance 'immediate family member' clause...

NB: should you discover that your Medical coverage does not in fact live up to your expectations of being moved to a decent hospital, then acquiring a medical-only top-up that will cover that side of things is a whole different ballgame and I would never advise anyone NOT to choose extra insurance for medical matters!

CFAR insurance though is one of those concepts that has insurance executives chortling and rubbing their hands in glee - only extended warranties are a bigger profit spinner as the odds of a cancellation which is not already covered by 'sensible reasons' are slim indeed - the only remotely-applicable to most folks situation is employment-related (new job that restricts vaycay times, military or similar 'leave is controlled by others and can be canceled' jobs, that sort of thing). They can insure their own losses for a fraction of the amount that premiums bring in on the reassurance market and laugh all the way to the bank...

But I guess a question would be how they'd deal with a condition that happened during the look back period, resolves, and then comes back before the trip (causing cancellation) or while on the trip (causing an interruption)--time for some reading in the plan documents on that, I think.

It's a pleasure to converse with someone who is paying attention to the details.

You've hit the nail on the head with the "recurrence" item.

My understanding is that anything that happens during the "look back" period (new diagnosis, change in old diagnosis [e.g., reoccurrence], change in treatment or meds creates the list of "preexisting conditions." IMO, whether that preexisting condition comes and goes after the "lookback" (from policy purchase up to and during the cruise/trip) is not the issue. Rather, the need for a "waiver" is to protect you/me from being denied reimbursement for trip interruption/cancellation due to anything on that list (even if it's a reoccurrence after a period of resolution).

Do report back what you find from your research.

Glad you got some clarity on the "evacuation." It's amazing how many terms are misused/confused. Always worth double/triple checking.

Good luck.

We have never bought 'cancel for any reason' insurance as the SIGNIFICANT cost of this upgrade (as already mentioned, ballpark 10% of the insured cost)

Well, not quite that much. Using figures from tripinsurancestore.com for the two of us (ages 40 and 45), based on $3000/person trip cost, there are three available policies that can be had either with or without CFAR:

• Travel Guard Gold has a premium of $319, or 5.32% of the trip cost. Adding CFAR (which gives 50% reimbursement) adds $127.80, or 2.13% of the trip cost.
  
• Travelex Travel Select has a premium of $348, or 5.8%. Adding 75% CFAR adds $226, or 3.77% of the trip cost.
  
• TravelSafe Classic has a premium of $324, or 5.4%. 75% CFAR adds $240, or 4%.
  

In addition, two policies include 75% CFAR if purchased in time:

• TripAssure Complete, with a $542 premium (9.0%)
  
• Travel Insured WTP Plus, $432 (7.2%)
  

So the cost delta for CFAR (with the specifics noted above) is 2-4%; a comprehensive policy including CFAR is 7.2-9.6%.

Well, not quite that much. Using figures from tripinsurancestore.com for the two of us (ages 40 and 45), based on $3000/person trip cost, there are three available policies that can be had either with or without CFAR:

 

• Travel Guard Gold has a premium of $319, or 5.32% of the trip cost. Adding CFAR (which gives 50% reimbursement) adds $127.80, or 2.13% of the trip cost.
  
• Travelex Travel Select has a premium of $348, or 5.8%. Adding 75% CFAR adds $226, or 3.77% of the trip cost.
  
• TravelSafe Classic has a premium of $324, or 5.4%. 75% CFAR adds $240, or 4%.
  

In addition, two policies include 75% CFAR if purchased in time:

• TripAssure Complete, with a $542 premium (9.0%)
  
• Travel Insured WTP Plus, $432 (7.2%)
  

So the cost delta for CFAR (with the specifics noted above) is 2-4%; a comprehensive policy including CFAR is 7.2-9.6%.

I would still ballpark that at 10%.

Ask yourselves, how many vacations had you had to cancel? Then how many have you had to cancel for CFAR reasons? I have yet to ever come across that in my 35+ vacations. Most people don't either. Then to pay for that on all of your trips and only get 50%-75% of your money back even if you have to use it is a horrible investment.

Insurance is not designed to get you a return for your money. It is supposed to cover you in case of catastrophe. I can definitely understand the concern for serious issues like medical/evacuation coverage. Even though those are also rare, one of those events could bankrupt even those in a comfortable financial state. Depending on some situations, it may be worth it more than others.

If you have a credit card that covers you for the big stuff, and the fine print works for you, that is sufficient in my opinion. You will hear tons of opinions on this, and any purchasing matter. Most people who tell you to get it just want to feel good about their purchases. You have to determine if it really makes sense for you. If you buy insurance on everything in life, you'd be surprised how much you waste. Self-insure.

I would still ballpark that at 10%.

 

 

Ask yourselves, how many vacations had you had to cancel? Then how many have you had to cancel for CFAR reasons? I have yet to ever come across that in my 35+ vacations. Most people don't either. Then to pay for that on all of your trips and only get 50%-75% of your money back even if you have to use it is a horrible investment.

 

 

Insurance is not designed to get you a return for your money. It is supposed to cover you in case of catastrophe. I can definitely understand the concern for serious issues like medical/evacuation coverage. Even though those are also rare, one of those events could bankrupt even those in a comfortable financial state. Depending on some situations, it may be worth it more than others.

 

 

If you have a credit card that covers you for the big stuff, and the fine print works for you, that is sufficient in my opinion. You will hear tons of opinions on this, and any purchasing matter. Most people who tell you to get it just want to feel good about their purchases. You have to determine if it really makes sense for you. If you buy insurance on everything in life, you'd be surprised how much you waste. Self-insure.

No credit card covers you for the "big stuff," e.g., the $25,000 cruise, the $150k medical bill for surgery abroad (if you're on Medicare).

Maybe "self insure" for the $1-2k it would cost for a coastal US cruise would make sense (since you regular medical insurance might be enough in most domestic situations). But each cruise presents its own set of challenges.

As for "hasn't happened so far": last year, we had to cancel for the first time due to medical issues (all okay now). Our comp policy quickly wrote a check for the full $20+k.

So the cost delta for CFAR (with the specifics noted above) is 2-4%; a comprehensive policy including CFAR is 7.2-9.6%.

And these numbers are exactly why I said ballpark 10%. OP already specified they already have coverage for everything else, as I do - nobody will quote JUST a policy for CFAR only, so it comes with a bunch of redundant stuff that IS already covered. Thus, to actually get CFAR you end up spending ballpark 10% more than the zero additional spend required by current coverage (I've seen as low as 8% so I'm happy to believe your 7.9-9.6% range).

If I want one salted caramel chocolate, but can only get it in a box that contains 9 other flavours I hate and that box costs $10, buying that one caramel does not cost me $1 - it costs me $10 and I throw away the other 9 chocs. Although I could potentially resell chocolates, but can't do that with insurance policies, so far from a perfect analogy;-)

The biggest reason I carry travel insurance is for the possible emergency medical evacuation back to the United States. That is a big pill to swallow that could easily cost $100k. Out-of-country medical coverage is a good idea too.

Trip interruption? Lost luggage? Trip cancellation? I can afford that. Mind you, it's going to sting quite a bit if I have to bail and have spent $3K on non-refundable hotel, airline, and cruise reservations. But I'll survive.

But, $100k+ for a medical evacuation? Might as well call the bankruptcy lawyer.

I like to have travel insurance just to have the evac and secondary medical. Because even if my policy will pay some of the medical cost some of us these days have deductibles that are insanely high. After my primary pays what it will then the secondary will help cover the deductible and other costs up to the policy limit. I hope that makes sense

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The biggest reason I carry travel insurance is for the possible emergency medical evacuation back to the United States. That is a big pill to swallow that could easily cost $100k. Out-of-country medical coverage is a good idea too.

OP already stated he is covered for medical and at least evac to suitable medical treatment.

Ok, let's talk numbers. My wife spent a few days in a hospital in the Caribbean a few years back, including ER, diagnostics, in-patient stay, medically escorted transportation home.

Medical costs incurred, including ship medical facility, ambulance, ER and hospital stay. Ship and hospital didn't care about her US insurance; I had to put everything on a credit card and submit for reimbursement - $8000.

Her health insurance coverage should have been limited to 80% of the above but after having lost the claim for 3+ months they ended up reimbursing 100% of the costs so I didn't have to get any balance from travel insurance.

Expenses reimbursed under trip interruption coverage - approx $5000:

Her medical evacuation coverage arranged and paid upfront for her travel home, including medically required first class commercial air, nurse escort from hospital to home, ambulance from hospital to airport, car service from airport to home (about 2 hours) as well as the nurse's travel expenses before and after the evacuation. I have no idea what this cost since I didn't have to front the expense. I'd guess it was at least as much as the total trip interruption expenses.

If we hadn't had trip insurance I think the hospital might have kept her longer until she could travel more conventionally - they talked with the insurer daily and coordinated medical orders to correspond to coverage.

One shortcoming in our travel insurance: we cruised out of New York, about 200 miles from home. Even though I needed to travel to New York to retrieve the car and the majority of our luggage that stayed on the ship, the insurer insisted that my trip ended and the coverage ceased when they got me home with my wife. I tried to claim that it was a resumption of my interrupted travel (covered under the policy) but they insisted that my trip ended when I crossed my home threshold. My cost was under $150 so eventually I gave up.