Breakaway damage from Grayson storm

Still waiting on pictures and room # of missing balcony door......they shut down the is the BA ok thread...

Thank you finally we have a video proof you went thru a winter storm .. and yes that was a rough one..been there done that...I wasn’t there ..I’ve sailed thru almost the same ...knot for 2 days though...but I really feel a lot of people are over playing it...for what ever thier reasons...I’ve been asking on other threads [that now have been closed]...someone stated their balcony door was ripped off during storm.....and then somebody boarded the breakaway after they got back from storm and then stated that the stateroom they were assigned the balcony door was ripped off.......but they were enjoying wings and beers.....I just want to see pictures of said damage.....I followed twitter posts...[crie baby somebody]...saw over acted full of crap news feed that eventually made main stream popular rating morning news show......I just want the truth was a door blown off or knot...did the glass break,,,was it ajar...did the seal fail.......or did someone just knot know how to lock it....and now needs the attention that would them make feel better....FYI I was posting under my Brides account for the last 2 weeks if anyone needs to know ...aka Japit...

Tuffyleigh is this your post from the ;;; is the breakaway ok thread ..if so what rooom # and why no pictures of no door on balcony.....and every balcony was covered in ice....your in freezing temperatures...

No he did not sail a safe distance behind it. If he had there would be no issues.

Like why on the next cruise did they not have a balcony door?

Hey. Yes we did make finally and joined the masses waiting for the ship to arrive then waiting to check in then waiting to board but after siting in a cold dry terminal for over 6 hours we finally made it on board and found our balcony room without a balcony door and ice piled up everywhere on balcony, but what the heck, here we are sitting in is Osheehans having some wings and beer and we are happy. It is now 3:30 and still sitting in New York with promises of leaving within next hour or so.

I am so sorry to hear that you guys didn’t make it. There’s always a next time.

Why the obsession with pictures ???

Hundreds of posts on this board with no pictures. Let it go or buy a camera!!!

Still waiting on pictures and room # of missing balcony door......they shut down the is the BA ok thread...

Why are you waiting for pictures? Who cares? Move on. That thread got locked because that horse was beaten to death.

Excellent video and interesting to watch as a mariner. Straight away it’s obvious that there were obviously some prima donnas onboard as it was far from a catastrophic perfect storm! High winds and some decent seas but nothing to fear. It’s obvious the biggest problem is the poor weather tightness of the sliding doors on decks 7/8/14 which allowed water to enter the accommodation. The external damage looks superficial and mostly due to poor sea fastening of loose items (something which I’ve noted during cruises with only minor squalls). The balcony door is interesting but it is likely that either it wasn’t closed properly or someone tried to open it. I’ve sailed in one of the owners suites on deck 16 during January and it was not wise to open the balcony door during 25kt winds (relative speed up to 40kts with the vessel headway).

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Excellent video and interesting to watch as a mariner. Straight away it’s obvious that there were obviously some prima donnas onboard as it was far from a catastrophic perfect storm! High winds and some decent seas but nothing to fear. It’s obvious the biggest problem is the poor weather tightness of the sliding doors on decks 7/8/14 which allowed water to enter the accommodation. The external damage looks superficial and mostly due to poor sea fastening of loose items (something which I’ve noted during cruises with only minor squalls). The balcony door is interesting but it is likely that either it wasn’t closed properly or someone tried to open it. I’ve sailed in one of the owners suites on deck 16 during January and it was not wise to open the balcony door during 25kt winds (relative speed up to 40kts with the vessel headway).

 

 

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Agree completely, coming from a perspective of being on the Spirit during a nor'easter (cyclone bomb) and the Jewel during Hurricane Sandy. And having been on the Breakaway just 3 weeks ago, I'm thinking any balcony door problem would be because the occupant left the door unsealed. You turn the handle down to open the door and it can close like that, but it doesn't seal until you turn the handle counter clockwise and up.

It was definitely some rough weather and I'm sure that seeing water come in made it uncomfortable.

Other threads have been demonising the master for a lack of PA announcements and his soothing and calming tones. Looking at the video and as a Master myself i expect he wasn’t even on the Bridge at the time. A quick 10 minutes with the mate and some clear instructions in his night orders followed by bed. I’d expect he got a call from the bridge when they started to get water ingress which probably resulted in slowing down, slight heading change and increased deck rounds but nothing dramatic.

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I'm sure it was worrisome during this cruise, but I would consider it an adventure! What stories you would have to tell for years to come! The ship was still floating and everything ended well.

The way I see it, the trade-off between better weather-tight doors to the promenade or "Boardwalk", or pool deck on the Breakaway,, or easy access, push-button doors, came to haunt the Breakaway in this case.

Perhaps, they should design future builds to have a double set of such doors to all access points, so that in normal operation, the weather tight doors would be locked open, and if rough conditions came, they could better seal off these area's with the weather tight doors....

Cool video, thank you. I'm sure it was scary for a lot of people.

I did notice a lot of towels strewn about, I wonder how many towels went missing after that? :)

Other threads have been demonising the master for a lack of PA announcements and his soothing and calming tones.

I certainly hope NCL reads this and gives this person nothing, because of these defamatory remarks.

Disclaimer: the following pictures are for the BA ship, not taken recently during the Grayson storm sailing: pulled these archive from our Breakaway cruises with balcony pictures, and uploading several of these for reference & discussion purposes - not going to call out others for their claims, they are entitled to their side of the stories. Clearly, other passengers posted on social media challenging the stories told and I will leave it alone.

The sliding BA door with the plexiglass (tempered) are rather solid & well built to be strong for use, as these ships do run across oceans ... and, yes, in storms - sliding on the outside track of the balcony. The handle swing up to close/lock and there is an extra safety lock on the top with the dial button. A # of possibilities exist for the balcony door to come off or broke, etc. - whatever - when it is closed and the seals are working as designed, it is fairly tight, if not 99.5% airtight for storm wind and sea spray from the rain storm to find its way into the stateroom.

Ditto for the bottom of the balcony/stateroom floor, it is raised/elevated with the sliding door's track - sure, it can be flooded with huge waves and ocean water being dumped onto the balcony's exterior (and, let's say those drains were clogged & backflow happened, etc. etc.) ... okay, unnerving and scary to those - but life endangered, I think not, my opinion.

As for the balcony partitions coming apart, flying or broken off their hinges ... well, more than one or two possible explanation - besides design flaw and/or defects, as most/all of them would've failed - the video taken after the ship was back in NYC and docked at Pier 88 suggested otherwise, almost all of them intact & held up. Again, I can see those on the lower decks - like 8, 9, 10 or even 11 and 12 taking a hit - nothing to prove and disprove. It is also possible that, the partitions were left open - something that's known to happened, when someone use a simple multi-tool/SAK type to twist, turn & unlock them - and/or it was improperly relocked sailing into the storm.

Chengkp75, could we have a little fun education and your mariner's analysis on these design, as you understood them ... for some of us. Thanks in advance, if you don't mind.

For comparison, when we sailed during Hurricane Sandy (leaving port 15 minutes before it closed due to the storm) we only heard from the captain just after embarkation and in the early evening (maybe 8PM?). Those announcements were calm with short facts of what was happening weatherwise and assurances that the captain and upper level crew were very experienced and the ship seaworthy. Then we got a longer discussion from him the next morning.

Most of the balcony partitions are made to move. When we disembarked a few weeks ago there were about a dozen crew working on the balconies and they had a number of the partitions open.

Disclaimer: the following pictures are for the BA ship, not taken recently during the Grayson storm sailing: pulled these archive from our Breakaway cruises with balcony pictures, and uploading several of these for reference & discussion purposes - not going to call out others for their claims, they are entitled to their side of the stories. Clearly, other passengers posted on social media challenging the stories told and I will leave it alone.

 

The sliding BA door with the plexiglass (tempered) are rather solid & well built to be strong for use, as these ships do run across oceans ... and, yes, in storms - sliding on the outside track of the balcony. The handle swing up to close/lock and there is an extra safety lock on the top with the dial button. A # of possibilities exist for the balcony door to come off or broke, etc. - whatever - when it is closed and the seals are working as designed, it is fairly tight, if not 99.5% airtight for storm wind and sea spray from the rain storm to find its way into the stateroom.

 

Best analogy I can give is to you own front door. There is a latch that will hold the door closed until you move the knob, and then there is a deadbolt that engages a separate bolt to keep the door closed no matter how you move the knob. I believe that the "swing the handle up" position engages lock bolts at the top and bottom of the door at the latch stile. As for the seals, they are on the inner face of the door, not the edges, so as the wind blows against the door, it is pressed more firmly into the seal. And, no it is not designed to be 100% watertight. While "weathertight" means that the opening should preclude entry of wind and water in any sea condition, in actual fact they are designed to meet a given wind force and rain force, and over time the door will lose a bit of its weathertightness. And for those who feel this caveat means they should maintain the doors better, the only way to test the doors is the "fire hose" test, where 150psi water from a fire hose is sprayed on the door to see if it leaks. Not something you can do easily on a port day or turn-around.

Given that the door is a sliding door, there isn't a whole lot of ways it can "blow off", unlike a swing door. There just isn't the surface area perpendicular to the wind force to create enough energy. Now, could the door have "blown open"? Sure, if not latched properly. Could it have subsequently slid back and forth and beat itself to death? Sure.

 

Ditto for the bottom of the balcony/stateroom floor, it is raised/elevated with the sliding door's track - sure, it can be flooded with huge waves and ocean water being dumped onto the balcony's exterior (and, let's say those drains were clogged & backflow happened, etc. etc.) ... okay, unnerving and scary to those - but life endangered, I think not, my opinion.

 

I have a hard time seeing any but the most forward and lowest balconies taking any water, and I'm not talking about green water, but spray and spume. In addition to the deck drains, there is the gap under the railing panel to clear water. But yes, with the ship listing with the balcony higher than the cabin, I can see some leakage coming in, but not torrents.

 

As for the balcony partitions coming apart, flying or broken off their hinges ... well, more than one or two possible explanation - besides design flaw and/or defects, as most/all of them would've failed - the video taken after the ship was back in NYC and docked at Pier 88 suggested otherwise, almost all of them intact & held up. Again, I can see those on the lower decks - like 8, 9, 10 or even 11 and 12 taking a hit - nothing to prove and disprove. It is also possible that, the partitions were left open - something that's known to happened, when someone use a simple multi-tool/SAK type to twist, turn & unlock them - and/or it was improperly relocked sailing into the storm.

 

Again, I would say that any dividers that were loose and banging were never latched properly in the first place.

 

Chengkp75, could we have a little fun education and your mariner's analysis on these design, as you understood them ... for some of us. Thanks in advance, if you don't mind.

I watched the video, and agree with suffield 12 that I saw a bad storm, but not an incredible storm. Whether the water seen dripping from ceilings was coming from balcony cabins, or possibly even some pipes that failed, I can't say, but it didn't look like the torrents described elsewhere. One area that the video concentrated on was the sliding door to the Waterfront. This is what happens when you subject an ADA compliant double sliding door to winds like this. There is no overlapping seal, so there is leakage at the join of the two doors, and there is no threshhold, so there cannot be a seal on the inner face of the door like there is on the balcony doors. This is somewhat of a pet peeve of mine. While I respect the rights of those who need accessibility, and hence ADA compliant doors, the ADA itself, and the SCOTUS in "Spector v. NCL" ruled that requirements like SOLAS take precedence over the ADA. So, you can't have it both ways, both ADA compliant, and SOLAS approved as weathertight. This area should probably have a double set of these sliding doors (god forbid, because that would ruin the aesthetic), with a grating drain in between to take away the leakage that will come from the outer door. But that's why I'll never be asked to design a cruise ship hotel.

Water seeks to its own level. It's basic physics and you can't change that fact.

Ships will get wet and unlike most people, they won't cry. And like people, both won't melt.

I can't listen to audio where I am but did watch the video clip and this looks quite common.

The damage isn't much more than an inconvenience just as a summer thundershower may put a slight damper on a 4th of July barbecue. Thunder stops, sun comes out, right those chairs and bring out the food! :)

Just as you wouldn't run with a 4x8 sheet of plywood on your back in a squall or wait until one is here before securing deck plates, you can expect things to blow around. Wind survival designs have to be absolute since vessels move...sometimes fast. I've clocked gusts at 145 knots on a bow pitot. That's fierce enough to strip one down to their bare behind!

The ship didn't leak nor were they near the center of the storm! Sounds like fake news in progress. ;)

C'mon folks this is nothing for us shellbacks. ;)

EDIT:

BTW, the glass (stationary glass) windows are quite strong and can take an amazing beating.

However, if something breaks loose and strikes them with decent force, they will break. This is what happened to Norwegian Dawn in 2005. Green water over the bow removed parts balcony railing on the forward facing penthouse suites sending parts into those picture windows and bam! When those go it sounds like a grenade going off! And when you have thousands of pieces of shattered glass blocking the drains, water backs up fast. These railings have been fortified considerably to avoid a repeat occurrence.

Cheers,

Norman

Most of the balcony partitions are made to move. When we disembarked a few weeks ago there were about a dozen crew working on the balconies and they had a number of the partitions open.

Yes, since the Star Princess fire, where fire teams could not move from one balcony to the next to fight the fire, all balcony dividers are required to open. That is the reason they do, not for passenger convenience. Further, this allows the crew to move along each deck on turn-around day washing the balcony and the outside of the door with a pressure washer (which is also a good test for the door seals), without having to go into each cabin as the steward is trying to service it, and then reach around the partition to get the pressure washer hose.

Just reviewed the video posted on my 17" monitor. I noted that there was not ONE, not even one balcony divider missing on the side of the ship that was in the video.

The video posted also showed a photo of a balcony door that the person speaking said was "open". Not missing, just open. The picture showed the handle in the down position, so that balcony door was not properly secured. The handle is in an up position when the door is secured.

I have been watching this discussion for a while now without commenting. The attitude that everyone on board was just a spoiled jerk or wimp because they felt their expensive vacation was ruined or they were scared is just ridiculous. Sailing into this storm was extremely careless, sorry. Passengers on a cruise ship are not hardened sailors or deck hands on some freight ship from China to the USA. A cruise ship is full of families, little kids, babies, elderly people. I am disgusted by some of the attitudes toward people who felt scared during this sailing. Here is a good video of the mess NCL made of peoples vacations and their ship.

I can’t discuss the captain’s choices because I am not one. However, I would have been very scared had I been on the ship and no one should judge anyone for their feelings while they were being tossed about for hours.

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I have been watching this discussion for a while now without commenting. The attitude that everyone on board was just a spoiled jerk or wimp because they felt their expensive vacation was ruined or they were scared is just ridiculous. Sailing into this storm was extremely careless, sorry. Passengers on a cruise ship are not hardened sailors or deck hands on some freight ship from China to the USA. A cruise ship is full of families, little kids, babies, elderly people. I am disgusted by some of the attitudes toward people who felt scared during this sailing. Here is a good video of the mess NCL made of peoples vacations and their ship.

 

Just saying that no one in the video appears too terribly worried about much of anything, except slipping on wet decks.

Wow, those carpets. I can’t even begin to imagine the amount of mold on that ship now.

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For those who were not on this cruise yet feel the need to continue to question the passenger's frightening experience....why??? You must have an obsession with proving people wrong in life. A balcony door may or may not have come off!!! So what if it did or did not??? The captain may or may not have made a wrong choice with this storm....maybe, maybe not! It's over for the passengers but it looks like it's not for the negative obsessed observers.