QM2 - Port Of "Cadiz" Removed From Mediterranean Itinerary!

I had some disquieting news from our travel agent today:

The port of Cadiz, Spain has been removed from the QM2's ininerary on the "Royal Mediterranean" cruise because of "security matters." I was told "not to worry, it's not due to terrorism." That is all Cunard would tell my agent, and needless to say, we're quite upset about missing this lovely port. :mad:

Instead, the ship will be overnighting in the port of Malaga!

Does anyone else have any knowledge of this important itinerary change? Cunard has not taken it upon themselves to notify their passengers as of yet and I don't know if they plan on doing so? If anyone else has ANY information on this unexpected change, I would certainly appreciate hearing from you, either here or via E-mail at Kitycaty@aol.com

I had posed this question on a thread I started on August 18th. From the response given by a fellow CruiseCritic member, the port at Cadiz in unable to handle the QM2. Now if you are being told that it is for security reasons, that would be quite different. I still cannot get a satisfactory response from Cunard. As a matter of fact, our excursion book still list Cadiz as a port of call. I think I'm going to sign up for everything at Cadiz and then demand an upgrade to a Queens Grill Suite when then tell me that it's been cancelled.

Good luck! Cunard is notoriously stingy with their upgrades!!! :rolleyes:

I spoke with a supervisor at Cunard today and inquired about the removal of the port of Cadiz from our itinerary, and was told that they were in the process of "dredging" the Cadiz harbor and that the QM2's draft was too deep to enter, and that this wouldn't be possible until the harbor has been properly dredged.

So, of course, I responded with "well...why not tender in, then?" Response from the supervisor was "I don't know? It's a company decision." That was all the information I could solicit.

She said that even though Cadiz has been in all the Mediterranean itineraries printed in their various inaugural brochures, the QM2 has yet to visit this port. I haven't heard anything from anyone else to corroborate this, so if there's anyone around who has already taken one of the Mediterranean cruises and missed Cadiz, I'd appreciate hearing from you for verification purposes.

Thanx! :)

The same reason was given to us for cancelling Gibraltar on the recent crusie to Athens.

Cunard Knew some months ago that cadiz and Gibraltar are unable to handle the ship. if they inform you in advance you have the right to cancel. None of the Brits knew in advance that we were going to Cueta for a 1 hr stay in the harbour . This then allowed tem to claim the ship .had been out of EU waters for tax reasons.

The actions that Cunard are taking is a "Criminal" offence under the 1992 package tour regulations that cover EU booked passengers. It is a serious matter that could result in Directors or Senior Managers facing severe penalties.

It's a shame that the people you are talking to are being made to carry the can for the actions of others.

Are we to assume then that the Oct 17-Oct 31 Royal Med cruise is not going to stop at Gibraltar ? I'm interested in the "Criminal" aspect of the previous post. I do agree that there is a real sense of dupicity if they offer ports of call on a 2 week cruise knowing full well that it would be impossible for the Queen to stop. However, if Cunard acted in good faith and they were under the impression that the harbors/docking facilites would be available by the time of the cruise and the they were not due to factors beyond their control (ie, lack of progress), they should have advertised the ports potential not definate. As I stated in an earlier post, my wife and I are looking forward to the ship and the ports are almost an afterthought. That being said, I'm getting a bad tast in my mouth over what could be viewed as something a little underhanded. Any thoughts?

Not sure what Cunard mean by "security reasons" but if the ship could not dock without risk this would be a reason. They are certainly not "criminally" liable unless they knew at the time of booking that the ship would not be visiting Gibraltar. In other words if things have changed outside their control they are in the clear.

David.

Cunard were infomed on 04 May that Gibraltar was unavailable as a port of call for reasons beyond their control. Fine, we can accept that. What is "criminally" wrong in the eye of the law in the Uk is to continue selling a holiday product knowing that you are unable to fulfil the contract. You are required by law to notify passengers within a "reasonable" time what the alterjnatives are and if the changes are considered significant offer passengers the option of cancelling. Passengers don't have to prove anything the onus is on Cunard.

This still allows a Master to change the itinerary for reasons beyond their control such as a weather related or security related incident and noone can reasonably object to that and that part of the contract is governed by the Athens convention.

All anyone wants is to know what changes , if any, are being made to an itinerary when Cunard know so thay may make a reasonable decision if they either wish to continue with the revised itinerary, change to an alternative cruise or cancel. Cunard failed to notify passengers in advance having had the knowledge themselves for four months. In failing to treat passengers with the respect they deserve and redcing the number of ports of call from 5 to 4 then I'm sorry but they deserve to be reminded that this action isn't acceptable.

If I buy an advertised car as a 3.2 litre engine and when you come to take delivery it's a 2.2 litre engine would you be happy....

At least Cunard is consistantly inconsistant. I called the 800 number today for a completely unrelated matter and casually inquired about the change in the itinerary and the fact that we're not stopping at Cadiz. This women informed me that there was already a ship scheduled for the time the QM2 was supposed to be in port and they cannot handle two. I did a cursory search on the net to see if I could find this mystery ship but I could not. I don't think my basic search should be treated as gospel, so I will give Cunard the benefit of the doubt. However, this is the 4 story related to me in reference to the skipping of Cadiz. First it was the vague "security matter". Then it became that Cadiz could not handle the ship. Next was the dredging the harbor (I guess that doesn't need pre-planning....the port just says "Hey! Let's dredge for six months" so there would be no way Cunard could have known). Now it's the scheduling conflict. I only want a straight answer....is that too much to ask?

While I don't argue Cunard's handling of the change in your itinerary, I would like to point out that Malaga, as a change of venue, has a lot to offer. It is a city imbued with the fire and soul of Spain, and a convenient jump off point from which to visit Granada, and the legendary Alhambra.

Passengers booked on the QM2's Fourth of July cruise were apprehensive about the last minute change from viewing the fireworks show in New York Harbor to viewing a specially staged fireworks show in Newport Harbor, in Rhode Island, due to security reasons. They received a royal welcome, and Cunard spent in excess of $20,000 to mount a memorable show on their behalf.

I was on the May 24th sailing and we did not go to Gibraltar and Cadiz ports as expected. We were only told a few days before but we were given $100 on board credit. I am also on the Oct. 17th cruise so was wondering what was going to happen this time. I have just got back from another cruise that went to Gibraltar so I asked at the info. centre and they are expecting the QM2 sometime in Sept, so presume it will also go there in Oct.

If Cadiz is replaced by Malaga all I can say is they gave us the best welcome of any port on the May 24th cruise.

i too was on the may 24th cruise.

just wondering what your impressions of it were?

especially as you seem to be a regular cruiser and for me it was my first.

did it live up to your expectations?

jane

On the August Southampton to Athens sailing, we too learned in advance that the stop in Gibraltar would be cancelled. We were disappointed and wanted to know the reason why. We heard two explanations: the one you mentioned about the port not being able to accomodate the draft of the boat (probably true), but also that Spain and the UK are in dispute about Gibraltar (true as well). The latter was explained as follows: Spain told Cunard that they could either visit Vigo or Gibraltar, but not both. Cunard responded by cancelling Gibraltar and extending our stay in Vigo by several hours (and our excursion there was the best one of the trip). We did a 'technical stop' off of North Africa in the haze. I would have liked to have visited Gibraltar, but that will be for another time.

(I understand that the Brits on board were not happy because Gibraltar is a terrific shopping stop for them.)

Concerning a tender stop... think again about this. It's hard enough for them to do all of their security screening and checks when the boat is in dock and people walk on and off. It's a nightmare to consider trying to shuttle 2600+ people via small boats to the shore. If it came to that, I'd consider just relaxing onboard!

Think it was Harry Truman who said "if you can't convince them confuse them". The dispute with Spain, which was in gross contravention of EU laws was cleared up long before August.

David.

On our last cruise, Millenium, Cadiz was added and Gibralter was deleted.

The Spanish government is turning away ships that stop at Gibraltar for political reasons. Guess they were unhappy that Gibralter folks voted to remain British. We expected to refuel there so we had to refuel offshore

at Morrocco. Cadiz was added to replace Gibraltar. We did dock, Millenium is @ 105,000 tons, but she does not have a deep draft. The QM2 does, because she was built to withstand the transatlantic voyages.

It is a shame that you will miss the port. It is a very, very small walled city, but it is beautiful. I can't understand why Cunard (probably the Carnival management) did not do their homework on that port. It would make more sense that Cadiz was supposed to have the inlet to the habor dredged before the QMII voyages. There was no dredging going on in May 2004.

You will love Malaga. Its the capitol of the Spanish Riviera. A one day stop is too short and you will find plenty to do. For women, shoe shopping can easily take a full day and its well worth it!

Anyone out there taking the QMII on 12/6?

i too was on the may 24th cruise.

just wondering what your impressions of it were?

especially as you seem to be a regular cruiser and for me it was my first.

did it live up to your expectations?

 

jane

I loved the ship so much so I booked again. We had good service in the Britannia and excellent table companions. I would have perferred a greater choice on the menu though. I loved afternoon tea in the Winter Garden, but this has apparently been stopped now. I also liked the Kings Court because of the variety of items you could get. I thought the bars lacked in atmosphere a bit but I am not a big drinker. But overall it was a great experience which I hope is repeated on the Oct. 17th cruise.

:) Nicky

A report in the UK Times this morning "Lifting of QM2 ban signals thaw over Gibraltar". Bearing in mind that this is a newspaper report and could all be fiction, it seems to be saying that because of the ban being lifted (seems to be saying it only applied to the QM2!) cruise ships could now visit both Spanish ports and Gibraltar. Also says that the QM2 arrived off Gibraltar yesterday from Malaga.

David.

That's really good news, David and I thank you for the same. My husband and I were just about to lodge a formal complaint about Cunard's advertising practices with CLIA, regarding the advertising of Cadiz and Gibraltor in their brochures, in order to entice potential passengers to book cruises, and then the cancelling of the same directly before the cruise and/or onboard with no notice. We both feel this is the grossest misrepresentation and that they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it! Sure hope we're not going to feel like saps if they cancel it onboard on our cruise! We booked this particular cruise because Gibraltor was one of the ports... :rolleyes:

Just throwing this into the pot...

Is anyone going on the 10-17th Royal Med cruise, or who has taken any previous cruises on QM2 where these ports (Cadiz and Gibraltor) were offered and cancelled in advance knowingly by Cunard, who were then sold these ports on an itinerary (with Cunard having no intention of allowing the QM2 to visit there), interested in a "class action" " suit against Cunard for cancelling these two ports for vague or unsatisfactory reasons?

This is almost 25% of their "sold" proposed itinerary. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this gross misrepresentation , and we are very upset about it. Upset enough to sue.

Let me know your thoughts...

B.J.

Follow up! An account executive "supervisor" from Cunard phoned me back after my complaint to CLIA regarding aborting the two ports, and he told me that "Gibraltor has guaranteed that their port will be dredged in time to receive the QM2 on the 10-17th cruise." He said that previously when they did stop at Gibraltor, they "tendered in, but that this took one hour, which Cunard felt was too long." When I inquired as to "why on earth they would advertise an itinerary they didn't plan to abide by", he said that "the brochures are printed two years in advance of the actual cruises." When I asked for his name, he gave it to me, but when I asked for an extension where I might call him back, he told me that Cunard is moving their offices from Florida to California and that he was leaving the company, and that only a few employees decided to make the relocation from Florida to California so he would be gone soon and unreachable, as would most of the Florida office.

Sounded like he's setting things up for an onboard decision to abort, but, of course, there's no way to tell for sure, and, obviously, that's the way they want it. Ahh well, let's try to be optimistic... :rolleyes:

...When I asked for his name, he gave it to me, but when I asked for an extension where I might call him back, he told me that Cunard is moving their offices from Florida to California and that he was leaving the company, and that only a few employees decided to make the relocation from Florida to California so he would be gone soon and unreachable, as would most of the Florida office.

This is indeed the case. Cunard's Florida IT staff (and likely others) are being combined with P&O's California office, and a number of the Cunard employees are being laid off. Interestingly, the IT person on board the QM2 was one of those in the Florida office who opted to transfer onto the ship and keep his position.

We also will be onboard the Royal Mediterranean Cruise. Ironically, we just sent in our Shore Excursion forms last week.

Darn! Was looking forward to that port, and no one from Cunard has contacted us with the change in plans.

Joyce in Los Angeles

I checked Cunard's site. The itinerary for the Royal Mediterranean Cruise now lists Malaga as a port for 2 days, not one.

And...Cadiz is no longer on the itinerary.

Too bad!

Joyce in L.A.

We knew that already, Joyce, although Cadiz also, was advertised on the original itinerary! The current problem is that Cunard intends to remove Gibraltor too, and are not advising those who have booked this trip in advance!

Their "MO" is to get you to book the trip and board, and then break the "bad news" that you'll not get to see Gibraltor after they have you as a "captive audience" aboard ship, and then to offer by way of "making amends," a $100.00 shipboard credit, which simply won't do! Keep in mind that they've advertised this cruise in advance with ports listed as actual itinerary, and are cancelling almost 25% of these ports after advertising the itinerary with knowledge aforehand that they won't be able to visit these two ports. This is simply not acceptable imo. I have spoken to Cunard about this and their response is that the brochures are printed up "two years" before the trips are offered, but that doesn't fly because they had to have known that the ports weren't deep enough to accept the QM2. They also responded that Gibraltor would be included on this cruise, but I don't think they will advise us if it's going to be omitted before the fact. After all, they do know the exact draft of the ship and the depth of the ports should be public knowledge. This is gross misrepresentation imo, and something should be done about it. They're not even offering a substitution of another interesting port in the area, by way of making amends, which they could easily do and which would be much more acceptable than a paltry $100. onboard credit. They're are plenty of great ports on the French, Italian and Spanish Mediterranean that would do as a substitution. Unbelievable that they can get away with this! But so far, nobody has objected, believe it or not! They just follow along like sheep to the slaughter.

Perhaps a class action suit by those taking this trip would help, if Gibraltor is also cancelled, and that's why I've called above for a "roll call" of those who would be interested in participating in the same if Gibraltor too is deleted from this cruise. Let's hear from any of you going on this cruise who would be interested in participating in a class action suit, and any others of you who have been stung on previous Cunard Mediterranean cruises by this practice. Cunard shouldn't be allowed to get away with this kind of gross misrepresentation !

I recently read about Cunard and Gibraltar in the NY Times.

It said that Gibraltar would not let a ship dock if it was coming from or going to Spain. This had nothing to do with Cunard and is not their decision.

The article also said that there was now going to be a new ruling by Gibraltar and they would let the ships dock. It seems that Cunard and other lines are always at the mercy of some government and its decisions.