What's going on with P&O UK with TIPPING


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#81
Surrey, UK
1,673 Posts
Joined May 2006
Originally posted by grapau27
I would report them to their manager,GS and put their name in a bad light on the post cruise survey.
But, you would still pay them a tip ?

Where I think the autotip falls down is that it is not really a tip, but a service charge that the staff receive regardless of how they perform. We had a waiter that did not speak 6 words to us in 2 weeks and we were tipping him via the autotip. But, not anymore.
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#82
1,576 Posts
Joined Jan 2015
Originally posted by Brayman
The current words from P&O says it also goes to the Buffet staff. See the FAQ on the web site, also read the holiday booklet that comes with your labels etc,
Indeed, and the staff interchange between the buffet and the mdr.

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#83
Sunderland England
9,813 Posts
Joined Dec 2016
Originally posted by bee-ess
But, you would still pay them a tip ?

Where I think the autotip falls down is that it is not really a tip, but a service charge that the staff receive regardless of how they perform. We had a waiter that did not speak 6 words to us in 2 weeks and we were tipping him via the autotip. But, not anymore.
Fortunately we have never had bad service but on Freedom dining you have different wait staff nightly so it really boils down to the CS.
If he was really bad i would see his supervisor, manager or ultimately hotel director and request a new cabin steward and say why.
If they refuse i would remind them that i would be naming them all in the cruise survey.
To summarise it has never happened in our 45 cruises but to answer your question this would be my line of action.
#84
berkshire
1,354 Posts
Joined Aug 2009
Originally posted by insanemagnet
But as the staff have to hand in those cash tips to be included in the tip pool distributed across the whole ship at P&O's whim, what do you achieve.

No they don't ! This would be almost impossible to police. Not that I'm advocating removing auto Gratuities, as I'd encourage guests to leave them on.
#85
1,542 Posts
Joined Jun 2014
Originally posted by Bell Boy
No they don't ! This would be almost impossible to police. Not that I'm advocating removing auto Gratuities, as I'd encourage guests to leave them on.
Yes they do, and it is very easy to police.

If they didn't hand in their cash tips when the person giving them has not paid the automatic gratuities the staff member gets 'paid' twice.

They would get a full share of the ship's tip pool (which has been reduced by 1/2000ths by the automatic gratuity not being paid) but get to keep the full amount of cash given to them.

If that happened all the staff would be pestering people to tip them in cash.
#86
West Yorkshire UK
3,592 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
Originally posted by insanemagnet
Yes they do, and it is very easy to police.

If they didn't hand in their cash tips when the person giving them has not paid the automatic gratuities the staff member gets 'paid' twice.

They would get a full share of the ship's tip pool (which has been reduced by 1/2000ths by the automatic gratuity not being paid) but get to keep the full amount of cash given to them.

If that happened all the staff would be pestering people to tip them in cash.
No they don't, let me refer you to my post #31 in this thread, the red text is an exact extract from an e-mail response to my request to Chris Edgington to provide clarication on their auto tipping/service reward system early in 2017.
I agree that if correct it does mean that those removing the auto tip, and paying in cash in envelopes, are providing their stewards and waiters with double gratuities since they will also receive a part of the auto tip pool.
Maybe they ought to reconsider their position if the answer I received is 100% correct.
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Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools. (Douglas Bader 1910-1982)
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. (Winston Churchill 1874-1965)
Future cruises --- Sept 2018 Azura - Canaries. Jan 2019 Ventura - Caribbean. April 2019 Aurora W Med, July 2019 Independence Med Beaches,
Previous Cruises
March 92 - Carnival's Carnivale - Bahamas . October 97 - Thomson's Emerald, Med. Nov 2000 - Superstar Gemini, Straits of Malacca. Jan 2004 - Coral Princess - Panama-Carib. June 2005 - Island Princess - Alaska. Jan 2006 - P&O Arcadia - East/southern Carib. Feb 2007 - Celebrity Millenium - Eastern Carib. June 2007 - Tahitian Princess - Honolulu to Papeete. Feb 2008 - Sapphire Princess - Sydney to Auckland. Sept 2008 Emerald Princess - Mediterranean. March 2009 - Coral Princess - Panama Canal. Feb 2010 Celebrity Solstice - Eastern Caribbean . Aug 2011 P&O Azura- Canaries. June 2012 P&O Ventura Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2012 Celebrity Eclipse - Western Med; Apr 2013 P&O Azura Western Med. June 2013 Celebrity Eclipse - Baltic. Oct 2013 P&O Azura - Central Med. May 2014 Emerald Princess N. Spain & France. Sept. 2014 Celebrity Eclipse-Canaries & Azores, Apr 2015 P&O Britannia - W Med. June 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Canaries & Azores. Jan 2016 P&O Ventura - No Fly Caribbean. Jun 2016 Eclipse - Baltic. Aug 2016 - Britannia Fjords, May 2017 - Azura W. Med. Sept 2017 - Navigator OTS Canaries & N Africa.
Feb 2018 Ventura - Caribbean & USA.,June 2018 Ventura - W. Med.


#87
Canberra Australia
44,897 Posts
Joined Apr 2012
Originally posted by kalos
The way I see it is go for Breakfast, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner and a bit of supper.
If you gave them £2 at each visit then auto tips is the cheaper option and there's nothing tightwad about paying auto tips.Some people seem to be more fixated on what others do or what they think they do. Let people pay personally to what suits them via envelopes or auto tips or nothing that is their choice and nothing to do with us.

Never had an issue but if I did and I take it you mean auto tips.
If the standard /service was bad ,firstly I would make them aware I was not happy giving them a chance to resolve any issues .
If the above fails then I would remove a token amount lets say £5 and on the tips removal form state reason for the deduction .Also I would not be giving them full marks on the question form at the end of the cruise.
Glad to say I've never had anything happen to warrant such steps.
Agreed, good post.
#88
1,542 Posts
Joined Jun 2014
Originally posted by terrierjohn
No they don't, let me refer you to my post #31 in this thread, the red text is an exact extract from an e-mail response to my request to Chris Edgington to provide clarication on their auto tipping/service reward system early in 2017.
I agree that if correct it does mean that those removing the auto tip, and paying in cash in envelopes, are providing their stewards and waiters with double gratuities since they will also receive a part of the auto tip pool.
Maybe they ought to reconsider their position if the answer I received is 100% correct.
Well all I can say is that completely contradicts the employment contracts I have seen, so weighing up the claimed behaviour from a customer service department and a legal contract I think I know which I will believe, particularly as the customer service assertion results in a rediculous situation.
#89
norwich uk
258 Posts
Joined Mar 2010
arrgh I am so confused now ! I think it is P and O's fault...the auto tips should be mandatory unless you have a bloody good reason to take them off..cash tips should be outlawed..solved ( she ducks under table to avoid shrapnel)
#90
Leeds
19 Posts
Joined Jan 2015
Tips should be included in the fare. That way everybody pays the same and if you think a member of staff deserves more, then tip them separately. I work 12 hour shifts 4 days a week and I'm in need of a rest when it comes to my days off. If I could pay someone £6 a day to come to my home to cook, clean; wait on me hand and foot, serve me my meal, get me a drink and everything else they do (you get the picture) then I would. They deserve every penny they get.
Janine
#91
Overlooking the Straights of Dover
275 Posts
Joined Oct 2016
Originally posted by insanemagnet
Well all I can say is that completely contradicts the employment contracts I have seen, so weighing up the claimed behaviour from a customer service department and a legal contract I think I know which I will believe, particularly as the customer service assertion results in a rediculous situation.
You haven't seen a P&O employment contract though, have you? The only thing I've ever seen you quote in public is a web page with the text of an alleged Carnival US contract. The fact it's a cut'n'paste (or OCR'ed) rather than an image means there's no way of assessing whether it's real or not, and even if it were genuine there's evidence, such as the communication quoted above by Terrierjohn, that Carnival UK's brands operate differently anyway. Continuing to insist otherwise really isn't helpful.
#92
North Yorkshire, UK
336 Posts
Joined Jun 2015
Originally posted by Elliejay
If I could pay someone £6 a day to come to my home to cook, clean; wait on me hand and foot, serve me my meal, get me a drink and everything else they do (you get the picture) then I would. They deserve every penny they get.
Janine
That’s the whole thing. They’re not being paid £6 a day for all that. This is your portion of a tip to the waiters and steward/butler. A steward does many rooms, a waiter does several tables, so if they get a tip from all, s/he is earning far more than they would back in their home country. Their wages come from our cruise fare.

I agree, it’s supposed to be a British cruise company. They ought to include the ‘service charge’ into the persons wage and passengers cruise fare. Then if people wish to tip extra for exceptional service, they can do. To me tips should be for extra service on top of a normal job.

At the end of a cruise, those auto tips leave a bad taste when I’ve only received acceptable service at best... at Christmas, service was a lot better than last year’s June trip. After last June I owed to take my tips off at Christmas. However the steward was good and so were the waiters, every night on freedom dining. So I did leave them on again. But I won’t this year if service is poor.
#93
Stoke on Trent
608 Posts
Joined Oct 2012
Originally posted by kentchris
You haven't seen a P&O employment contract though, have you? The only thing I've ever seen you quote in public is a web page with the text of an alleged Carnival US contract. The fact it's a cut'n'paste (or OCR'ed) rather than an image means there's no way of assessing whether it's real or not, and even if it were genuine there's evidence, such as the communication quoted above by Terrierjohn, that Carnival UK's brands operate differently anyway. Continuing to insist otherwise really isn't helpful.
And that is why these tipping threads go on and on. The one thing that is missing is facts and no matter how authoritative some posters may appear, unless they have hard facts that can be backed up with relevant and unarguable evidence rather than hearsay, this thread, like other tipping threads, will continue to go round and round in circles.
#94
Surrey, UK
1,673 Posts
Joined May 2006
Originally posted by Goosebear Mum
That’s the whole thing. They’re not being paid £6 a day for all that. This is your portion of a tip to the waiters and steward/butler. A steward does many rooms, a waiter does several tables, so if they get a tip from all, s/he is earning far more than they would back in their home country. Their wages come from our cruise fare.

I agree, it’s supposed to be a British cruise company. They ought to include the ‘service charge’ into the persons wage and passengers cruise fare. Then if people wish to tip extra for exceptional service, they can do. To me tips should be for extra service on top of a normal job.

At the end of a cruise, those auto tips leave a bad taste when I’ve only received acceptable service at best... at Christmas, service was a lot better than last year’s June trip. After last June I owed to take my tips off at Christmas. However the steward was good and so were the waiters, every night on freedom dining. So I did leave them on again. But I won’t this year if service is poor.
My earlier views exactly - only much better described, Thank You
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#95
Canberra Australia
44,897 Posts
Joined Apr 2012
Originally posted by pete14
And that is why these tipping threads go on and on. The one thing that is missing is facts and no matter how authoritative some posters may appear, unless they have hard facts that can be backed up with relevant and unarguable evidence rather than hearsay, this thread, like other tipping threads, will continue to go round and round in circles.
And around and around. This thread is not going to change anyone's mind either way, those that leave the auto tips on will continue to do so. Just as those who don't will also continue to have them removed.
#96
1,542 Posts
Joined Jun 2014
Originally posted by kentchris
You haven't seen a P&O employment contract though, have you? The only thing I've ever seen you quote in public is a web page with the text of an alleged Carnival US contract. The fact it's a cut'n'paste (or OCR'ed) rather than an image means there's no way of assessing whether it's real or not, and even if it were genuine there's evidence, such as the communication quoted above by Terrierjohn, that Carnival UK's brands operate differently anyway. Continuing to insist otherwise really isn't helpful.
As you mention, P&O is a brand operated by Carnival Corporation.

Ask yourself why would Carnival Corporation operate a contract for staff on one brand where they were rewarded equally and a different (illogical) contact for another brand where some staff were paid twice to the detriment of others.

Originally posted by blueboo
I think it is P and O's fault...the auto tips should be mandatory unless you have a bloody good reason to take them off.
They cannot do that as it would be illegal.

What they could (and should) do is include them in the headline fare.
#97
174 Posts
Joined May 2013
Attended an event a while ago and got chatting to a P&O representative on this very topic.

Post #31 is correct about the current position on tips. The only exception is that one of the recent increases allowed for a 'tip pot' for buffet stuff. All the questionnaire scores go into a computer and that knows who looked after who and works out the tips cruise by cruise. Higher scores get move money. Small amounts roll from cruise to cruise but P&O pocket none. In fact, poor performing staff have a minimum earning requirement and that's P&Os responsibility to make-up. Hence why the ditch poor performing staff asap.

Housekeeping staff get scores based on their cabins, dining staff are allocated to your room per night when you check in with the Head waiter - the computer knows who you've been allocated and buffet staff get a team score. Head waiter gets score based upon overall staff performance. Waiting staff rotate around Freedom / Club and Buffet dining.

Waiting staff get a percentage of sales to encourage them to do their job however this is from the P&O profit element of the drink not charged as an additional. All other jobs are salaried.

If you give someone a tip, they get to keep it. Policies are consistent on Carnival UK (P&O and Cunard ships) but not necessarily around the group - in the same way that Carnival Cruise Line at a 15% tip to your drink but P&O don't.

Staff are not allowed to discuss personal matters with passengers. In the same way they are not allowed to 'friend' passengers on social media etc. But if they can do so without getting caught, they do. Some do like a sob story.

Finally, under UK law, if you advance pay your gratuities, P&O will be taxed on them. That's why they allow you to buy extra on board spend which can then be used to settle grats on board. https://ask.pocruises.com/help/po/li...board/gratuity
#99
West Yorkshire UK
3,592 Posts
Joined Jul 2004
That all sounds quite feasible Molecrochip, and the main element is in line with the e-mail response I received.
But I do have to agree with Insanemagnet that allowing staff to keep all the cash tips they receive does lead to them receiving double tips from any passengers who delete the auto tips but do tip in cash.
I cannot believe that P&O management have not considered this and am at a loss to understand why they allow it, and even more surprised that the staff themselves do not question it's fairness.
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Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the observance of fools. (Douglas Bader 1910-1982)
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. (Winston Churchill 1874-1965)
Future cruises --- Sept 2018 Azura - Canaries. Jan 2019 Ventura - Caribbean. April 2019 Aurora W Med, July 2019 Independence Med Beaches,
Previous Cruises
March 92 - Carnival's Carnivale - Bahamas . October 97 - Thomson's Emerald, Med. Nov 2000 - Superstar Gemini, Straits of Malacca. Jan 2004 - Coral Princess - Panama-Carib. June 2005 - Island Princess - Alaska. Jan 2006 - P&O Arcadia - East/southern Carib. Feb 2007 - Celebrity Millenium - Eastern Carib. June 2007 - Tahitian Princess - Honolulu to Papeete. Feb 2008 - Sapphire Princess - Sydney to Auckland. Sept 2008 Emerald Princess - Mediterranean. March 2009 - Coral Princess - Panama Canal. Feb 2010 Celebrity Solstice - Eastern Caribbean . Aug 2011 P&O Azura- Canaries. June 2012 P&O Ventura Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2012 Celebrity Eclipse - Western Med; Apr 2013 P&O Azura Western Med. June 2013 Celebrity Eclipse - Baltic. Oct 2013 P&O Azura - Central Med. May 2014 Emerald Princess N. Spain & France. Sept. 2014 Celebrity Eclipse-Canaries & Azores, Apr 2015 P&O Britannia - W Med. June 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Iceland & Fjords. Sept 2015 Celebrity Eclipse - Canaries & Azores. Jan 2016 P&O Ventura - No Fly Caribbean. Jun 2016 Eclipse - Baltic. Aug 2016 - Britannia Fjords, May 2017 - Azura W. Med. Sept 2017 - Navigator OTS Canaries & N Africa.
Feb 2018 Ventura - Caribbean & USA.,June 2018 Ventura - W. Med.


1,542 Posts
Joined Jun 2014
Originally posted by terrierjohn
That all sounds quite feasible Molecrochip, and the main element is in line with the e-mail response I received.
But I do have to agree with Insanemagnet that allowing staff to keep all the cash tips they receive does lead to them receiving double tips from any passengers who delete the auto tips but do tip in cash.
I cannot believe that P&O management have not considered this and am at a loss to understand why they allow it, and even more surprised that the staff themselves do not question it's fairness.
And why the staff wouldn't solicit cash tips if they can double their earnings. Especially when their real wages can be withheld because someone gave you less than 10.

If you were in their shoes and could keep cash tips you would be stupid not to put the begging bowl out with a sob story.