Princess (New) Ships Aren't "Game Changers", Why?

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#61
5 Posts
Joined Dec 2017
Originally posted by Pam in CA
With regards to the Promenade deck, take into consideration the SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea) rules implemented after the Costa Concordia disaster. Princess, and other lines, must follow the SOLAS rules and regulations. Can’t blame Princess which it appears people are doing.
Do these rules mean no more promenade decks on any ships? This is the first I have heard of this and it's got me interested.

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#62
Diamond Bar, CA
1,007 Posts
Joined Sep 2015
Originally posted by Utah17
Do these rules mean no more promenade decks on any ships? This is the first I have heard of this and it's got me interested.

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Well, it's on the internet. It must be true.

Utah, please go back and read through the entire thread. In particular pay close attention to the posts by chengkp75. Chengkp75 actually has significant seafaring experience. If I'm not mistaken, his Cruise Critic handle is a contraction of "Chief Engineer." His opinion carries a lot of weight with me. In his posts in this thread he not only insists that there are no SOLAS requirements that preclude promenade decks, but his opinion that larger promenade decks could aid the evacuation of a ship.

Although he did not mention it, the Costa Concordia incident, which is cited as the reason that the Majestic Princess does not have the wrap-around promenade, ocurred 10 months after construction began on the Majestic Princess. Believe me, Princess did not suddenly say, "Oh crap, they changed the SOLAS requirements. Now we have to stop construction of this ship, redesign the whole thing and still stay on schedule."
#63
838 Posts
Joined Feb 2009
Originally posted by LizSydney
d.I also would disagree that younger newer cruisers spend a lot. I do spend a fair amount on internet but why would I use a cruise ship shop when I can buy things on land? The only things I buy on the ship are internet, a few drinks, a coffee card, maybe a specialty restaurant and maybe a few souvenirs. The rest I would buy at home.
Your personal spending habits aside, it is a statistical fact that newer and/or younger cruisers spend more.

You disprove your own point. You admit to spending a fair amount on internet(at a premium), Elite/Platinum passengers get internet packages para gratis. Many Elite passengers also swap their complimentary mini-bar set-ups for coffee cards.

With the shareholders' benefit, and other loyalty-related OBC(along w/ FCCs), some older cruisers get a decent pile of complimentary spending money from Princess.

Often, younger/newer cruisers have limited vacation time available(compared to older/retired cruisers who can vacation more often.). These younger vacationers stastically spend more per vacation. With only 3% of the population cruising - one must understand that: While loyal returning Black and Silver cards keep the lights on, it's the Blue cards that bring Princess its profit. Princess would much rather fill their ships with Blue Cards, instead of Black and Silver.

Cruiselines make their money from onboard spending, not filling cabins.

Here's a couple articles that back up the statement that newer cruisers spend more...

HERE

HERE

HERE
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#64
South Florida & Shenandoah Valley, VA
5,620 Posts
Joined Jan 2008
I agree that new cruisers tend to spend more than experienced cruisers (which can be of any age) but those older experienced cruisers have more time on their hands (longer vacations, retirees) and probably take many more cruises. Most itineraries - with the exception of Alaska and maybe short warm weather cruises - don't attract new cruisers in numbers to fill an entire ship.
#65
Sydney
101 Posts
Joined Dec 2015
Originally posted by Skai
Your personal spending habits aside, it is a statistical fact that newer and/or younger cruisers spend more.

You disprove your own point. You admit to spending a fair amount on internet(at a premium), Elite/Platinum passengers get internet packages para gratis. Many Elite passengers also swap their complimentary mini-bar set-ups for coffee cards.

With the shareholders' benefit, and other loyalty-related OBC(along w/ FCCs), some older cruisers get a decent pile of complimentary spending money from Princess.

Often, younger/newer cruisers have limited vacation time available(compared to older/retired cruisers who can vacation more often.). These younger vacationers stastically spend more per vacation. With only 3% of the population cruising - one must understand that: While loyal returning Black and Silver cards keep the lights on, it's the Blue cards that bring Princess its profit. Princess would much rather fill their ships with Blue Cards, instead of Black and Silver.

Cruiselines make their money from onboard spending, not filling cabins.

Here's a couple articles that back up the statement that newer cruisers spend more...

HERE

HERE

HERE
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.
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#67
Vancouver, BC
18,152 Posts
Joined Feb 2002
Originally posted by LizSydney
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.
Tours and activities are where they make their money not the lodging.
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#68
838 Posts
Joined Feb 2009
Originally posted by LizSydney
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.
Que?

<Boomers = 'Young people' in the cruising world. While Boomers may have the opportunity to take more, Gen Xers/Millennials spend more than Boomers PER vacation.

Your opinion of cruise-line revenue is incorrect.

You've merely based your opinion from your own personal thrifty habits. It's established data that the cruiselines are well aware of that newer/younger cruisers statistically spend more onboard per cruise than experienced/older cruisers.
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#69
Sydney
101 Posts
Joined Dec 2015
Originally posted by Skai
Que?



<Boomers = 'Young people' in the cruising world. While Boomers may have the opportunity to take more, Gen Xers/Millennials spend more than Boomers PER vacation.



Your opinion of cruise-line revenue is incorrect.



You've merely based your opinion from your own personal thrifty habits. It's established data that the cruiselines are well aware of that newer/younger cruisers statistically spend more onboard per cruise than experienced/older cruisers.


Thrifty? I’d hardly say $1k on internet on the last cruise is thrifty.

I read the supplied link and the information suggests that we spend more on holidays overall but that doesn’t mean we spend that on board. It just means we travel more overall.


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#70
Alberta, Canada
93 Posts
Joined Jul 2006
Originally posted by LizSydney
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.
Right. Looks like my fellow Gen-Xers are spending more so as I mentioned in an earlier posting, can we ditch the 60's music nights in favour of 80's nights featuring New Wave and Hair-Metal band music instead?

I think one important point is that although retirees may take the longer cruises which cost more, I believe the bulk of cruise line revenue comes from the 4-7 day holidays which many people take. These shorter trips are more popular with people who are still working and don't have the option to take a 3-4 week cruise. Shorter duration cruises also come in at a lower price point therefore making them accessible to a larger portion of the population.
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#71
Vancouver, BC
18,152 Posts
Joined Feb 2002
Originally posted by LizSydney
Thrifty? I’d hardly say $1k on internet on the last cruise is thrifty

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And you’re actually questioning who spends the most onboard? Pretty sure you won’t find many 50+ cruisers spending $1,000 on internet
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#72
838 Posts
Joined Feb 2009
Originally posted by LizSydney
Thrifty? I’d hardly say $1k on internet on the last cruise is thrifty.

I read the supplied link and the information suggests that we spend more on holidays overall but that doesn’t mean we spend that on board. It just means we travel more overall.


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Perhaps you're mixing 'new' cruisers with 'young' cruisers a little bit here. It deserves noting that not all 'new' cruisers are 'young', and not all 'young' cruisers are 'new' to cruising. However, by in large, the majority of 'new' cruisers also happen to be 'young'.

It's 'new' cruisers that Princess (along with all major cruiselines) are looking to entice, for the reason(s) that I stated above.

You're proving my point. My DW and I spent $0 on internet, each receiving 250 (loyalty)minutes for our 8-day cruise on the Crown last month -- More than enough for me -- as I still had some left to help spend the time waiting to disembark the last day.

Fairly soon before the sail-date, Princess emailed a casino rate that was around the lowest per person/per day that I've ever seen offered by them, but we were both able to get the time off short notice, and couldn't refuse $149 pp for an inside cabin. Coast-to-coast air was quite reasonable too.

In addition to the OBC from the FCC/FCD (we had purchased on our previous Princess sailing), having been Carnival Corp. shareholders for several years now, we also benefitted with more OBC from that relationship.

Yeah, we bought a few drinks on board, played some bingo on the final day, hit the Salty Dog one evening. We skipped our usual trip(s) to the Crown Grill this time around -- balking at both the raise in price, and the newer additional cover charge for multiple entrees.

Other than purchasing some sunscreen and a very reasonable bar bill. we didn't spend much on this cruise. Couple that with being a little lucky in the casino, and pulling a few C-notes out...I can absolutely guarantee that Princess lost money on us. Having a specific avg. onboard spending pp/pd target threshold, profit margins per passenger are very slim for cruise-lines. Mainstream lines make their money from the large overall volume of passengers.

With the money that we saved, we rented cars on the islands visited, having meals ashore and DIY touring.

FWIW - We avg. age late 30s, but are not necessarily new to cruising.
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#73
sw, Fl - Fort Myers Area
6,489 Posts
Joined Nov 2015
Originally posted by capriccio
I agree that new cruisers tend to spend more than experienced cruisers (which can be of any age) but those older experienced cruisers have more time on their hands (longer vacations, retirees) and probably take many more cruises. Most itineraries - with the exception of Alaska and maybe short warm weather cruises - don't attract new cruisers in numbers to fill an entire ship.
Certainly not so in our case.
We've cruises significantly more since retired & spent way less than we used to prior to retirement even though the number of days at sea has increased dramatically.
If it wasn't for the wife buying a few items on the ships sale day (maybe $20 or $30) our bill would be zero.
That was never the case when we first started cruising.
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#74
Sydney
101 Posts
Joined Dec 2015
Originally posted by Skai
Perhaps you're mixing 'new' cruisers with 'young' cruisers a little bit here. It deserves noting that not all 'new' cruisers are 'young', and not all 'young' cruisers are 'new' to cruising. However, by in large, the majority of 'new' cruisers also happen to be 'young'.



It's 'new' cruisers that Princess (along with all major cruiselines) are looking to entice, for the reason(s) that I stated above.



You're proving my point. My DW and I spent $0 on internet, each receiving 250 (loyalty)minutes for our 8-day cruise on the Crown last month -- More than enough for me -- as I still had some left to help spend the time waiting to disembark the last day.



Fairly soon before the sail-date, Princess emailed a casino rate that was around the lowest per person/per day that I've ever seen offered by them, but we were both able to get the time off short notice, and couldn't refuse $149 pp for an inside cabin. Coast-to-coast air was quite reasonable too.



In addition to the OBC from the FCC/FCD (we had purchased on our previous Princess sailing), having been Carnival Corp. shareholders for several years now, we also benefitted with more OBC from that relationship.



Yeah, we bought a few drinks on board, played some bingo on the final day, hit the Salty Dog one evening. We skipped our usual trip(s) to the Crown Grill this time around -- balking at both the raise in price, and the newer additional cover charge for multiple entrees.



Other than purchasing some sunscreen and a very reasonable bar bill. we didn't spend much on this cruise. Couple that with being a little lucky in the casino, and pulling a few C-notes out...I can absolutely guarantee that Princess lost money on us. Having a specific avg. onboard spending pp/pd target threshold, profit margins per passenger are very slim for cruise-lines. Mainstream lines make their money from the large overall volume of passengers.



With the money that we saved, we rented cars on the islands visited, having meals ashore and DIY touring.



FWIW - We avg. age late 30s, but are not necessarily new to cruising.


I’ve only ever spent about $100 on the bar (about a drink a day), the coffee card ($45) and maybe one or two items from the souvenir shop. Outside of the internet (I was working the last cruise I took so needed internet) I spent only about $200 over 15 days. I didn’t do shore excursions. They seem overpriced and I go to destinations I’m familiar with. When I do Hawaii and Fiji (cruise after the next) I’m likely to do shore excursions that time).

My next cruise I’m anticipating about $550 overall on board but that may increase if I do a specialty restaurant.

I’m a Ruby member right now. I’ll be platinum after my next one (solo cruiser).
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#75
florida
342 Posts
Joined Jul 2012
A vacant stateroom like a vacant hotel room is lost revenue forever. Whatever the fare, it is income. And whether you spend $20 or $500 it’s revenue


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#76
sw, Fl - Fort Myers Area
6,489 Posts
Joined Nov 2015
Originally posted by umuva
A vacant stateroom like a vacant hotel room is lost revenue forever. Whatever the fare, it is income. And whether you spend $20 or $500 it’s revenue


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You've got that right.
There's always the chance you might have a few drinks, eat at Specialty restaurants, play bingo or spin the wheel at the slots.
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#77
florida
342 Posts
Joined Jul 2012
Originally posted by floridalover5623
You've got that right.

There's always the chance you might have a few drinks, eat at Specialty restaurants, play bingo or spin the wheel at the slots.


The crowds of elite/platinum at BOGO + $1 show that a lot of long termers are spending some money as do the huge crowds at dining room sales. It’s all revenue.


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#78
sw, Fl - Fort Myers Area
6,489 Posts
Joined Nov 2015
Originally posted by umuva
The crowds of elite/platinum at BOGO + $1 show that a lot of long termers are spending some money as do the huge crowds at dining room sales. It’s all revenue.


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I personally subscribe to BYOB.
We haven't gone to pay restaurants since the price rise.
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#79
838 Posts
Joined Feb 2009
Originally posted by LizSydney
When I do Hawaii and Fiji (cruise after the next)...
Sounds fun..Enjoy.

We're off today to go spend a couple of weeks on the Big Island.
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#80
West coast of Florida
530 Posts
Joined Apr 2010
Originally posted by Loreni
They destroyed the promenade and shrunk the balconies. That was a game changer for me.
Agree!
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