Removing gratiuities - when to do it

Thank you! It's nice to see you're a couple of "good eggs" as my late mother used to say. I've never had an issue with those who don't choose to tip over the daily gratuity. That's a total personal choice. My issue are with those who like to remove the charge & then pocket it. I know in most of Europe the wage scales are considerably higher than in the US. Unfortunately most cruise lines are US companies. & pax should abide by the rules, whether they are fair or not. Removing part of the income that these hard working people receive, simply because they don't like how Carnival corp. & cruise companies do their pay scales, is in my eye,and some others as well,is rather despicable. You'll see the same few who do this chime in at any moment.

Simply make the service charge non removable! On NCL it's very difficult to do it. You now have to fill out a form upon returning home stating the actual reasons the staff that did NOT give you good service & any other reasons you wish to have it refunded.

I don't always see eye to eye with keithm on everything, but I'm in agreement 100% on this issue. This pay system is probably archaic, disrespectful and not ideal, but it's the one we are using as of now. Service people on cruise ships make substandard salaries that are propped up by having customers pay gratuities to bring their incomes up to acceptable levels. The bottom line -- few people would want to work as hard and as long as a waiter, asst' waiter or cabin stewart on today's modern cruise ship.

Enjoy!

Kel:D

I know in most of Europe the wage scales are considerably higher than in the US. Unfortunately most cruise lines are US companies. & pax should abide by the rules, whether they are fair or not.

Since Carnival who own the Cunard brand are not a US company, but dual listed in the US and UK, then perhaps they ought to set the pricing policy for people booking through their UK website to take account of UK norms.

Since Carnival who own the Cunard brand are not a US company, but dual listed in the US and UK, then perhaps they ought to set the pricing policy for people booking through their UK website to take account of UK norms.

Carnival is headquartered in the US. I always heard many from the UK complain how expensive the Cunard cruises are for them, compared to those from the US. I think the "inclusive" fares are the reason.

I don't always see eye to eye with keithm on everything, but I'm in agreement 100% on this issue. This pay system is probably archaic, disrespectful and not ideal, but it's the one we are using as of now. Service people on cruise ships make substandard salaries that are propped up by having customers pay gratuities to bring their incomes up to acceptable levels. The bottom line -- few people would want to work as hard and as long as a waiter, asst' waiter or cabin stewart on today's modern cruise ship.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:D

I've seen complaints that prices for members of the UK are considerably higher than for cruisers from the US. I'm not sure the price difference is. I'll give a clue: I've gotten numerous mailings on booking Trans Atlantic cruises starting at about $720 for an inside cabin. Any idea how much it would be for a person from the UK? That might show how the gratuities are figured into the cost for non US pax.

I've seen complaints that prices for members of the UK are considerably higher than for cruisers from the US. I'm not sure the price difference is. I'll give a clue: I've gotten numerous mailings on booking Trans Atlantic cruises starting at about $720 for an inside cabin. Any idea how much it would be for a person from the UK? That might show how the gratuities are figured into the cost for non US pax.

Hi,our grats are not included in our fares,they are the same system as yours.In the US,I think the TAs offer better deals and are more competitive,correct me if I am wrong,cheers,Brian.

The bottom line -- few people would want to work as hard and as long as a waiter, asst' waiter or cabin stewart on today's modern cruise ship.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:D

I agree.

I can't think of a job that's more physically demanding and where you work in such a harsh environment than carrying plates around on a air conditioned cruise ship all day.

Really, it must be hell on earth.

I think it was Norman Tebbit, a UK Government Minister, who when directing his words to the unemployed in the UK said 'if you really want job get on your bike, look for work and relocate if you have to', or words to that effect. I am sure that the majority of staff on cruise ships have done exactly this. If they cannot get work, or only get work that is very low paid in their own countries, many will search for other options, and working as a crew member on cruise ships may sound like a great opportunity to work and earn a living for their families. Therefore I don't think we should compare what a waiter/room cleaner earns either as wages or tips in the USA or UK as the circumstances are very different. When I have traveled on cruise ships many of the staff seem to to work hard but also play hard. Each port day you can see groups of them, all wearing the latest designer gear, with smart phones etc. smiling, looking happy and enjoying getting off the ship to visit the town. I have no problem with that at all, I think, as we all probably do, it is well deserved. Now for the part where grats are concerned.....as a UK citizen I am used to tipping some occupations and not others. I tip my hairdresser, taxi driver, waiter, porter, as others. However, I do not go around the back kitchens in restaurants tipping every member of staff, nor do I do that in my hairdressers shop etc. Also, when I book a room in a hotel I don't usually tip staff there, as I have paid good money to use their facilities and I look upon the hotel to provide and pay staff to help me do that. In my mind the same thing can be said of cruise ships, Cunard, Princess etc. should all pay their staff a living wage based on their position in the crew. If they don't do this it is actually them that are 'stiffing' the crew, not the cruise passengers! I do usually pay my grats via my daily account, but I would definitely rather pay 'tips' to those who have actually impressed me personally otherwise where is the incentive for crew members to 'up their game'? Please, isn't it time we all stop feeling sorry for crew members and complaining about other holidaymakers not paying tips; time would be better spent campaigning for cruise lines to pay their staff a living wage using rates that can be transparent for all to see. The way they run the system now only pitches guest against guest, rather than guests against the cruise lines!!

I agree.

 

I can't think of a job that's more physically demanding and where you work in such a harsh environment than carrying plates around on a air conditioned cruise ship all day.

 

Really, it must be hell on earth.

Well said Toad, very well said. I was walking past a building site recently on one of those days when it rained all day and noticed the hod carrier (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_hod) and thought what a pleasant job that guy had, out in the fresh air all day, up and down a ladder to the top of the scaffolding and only 12 bricks to carry, constantly refreshed by the constant downpour. How those waiters must envy him.

David.

I also agree!

A steward's job is so cushy; lazily wake up at a sensible hour, spend time with their wife/husband over breakfast on the verandah, see the kids off to school. Start work at the office at 9 (ish), lunch hour (ish) break at 1, finish at 5 (ish). Then home to see the family and nice relaxing unwind in front of the TV in the evening, or maybe a couple of hours gardening while there is still light. Then a late night as it's another relaxing day tomorrow.

And only five days a week and every weekend off!

Come Christmas there's a fortnight off to really enjoy the festive spirit, and see one's kids open their presents. That's special family time. Oh, and the chance to get really drunk knowing you've days to get over the hangover before returning to work.

How they must feel sorry for those workers who are away working for months and months on end. The must really pity those who work away from family and loved ones, and thank goodness they don't have to do that.

At least they don't have to put up with rude customers, people who treat them like slaves. How they must revel in their ability to say "do it yourself, you obese foul-mouthed pompous self-important ill-dressed slob" with no repercussions, and then get back to that nap...

Yes, such a cushy life, being a steward on a cruise ship. A lot like pen-pushers in offices really; plenty of time to count paper-clips, and do an inventory of pencils.

And then they have the nerve to expect extra money from customers on top of their expense-account enhanced salary (with company car) for this cushy, pampered life! Never.

I also agree!

 

A steward's job is so cushy; lazily wake up at a sensible hour, spend time with their wife/husband over breakfast on the verandah, see the kids off to school. Start work at the office at 9 (ish), lunch hour (ish) break at 1, finish at 5 (ish). Then home to see the family and nice relaxing unwind in front of the TV in the evening, or maybe a couple of hours gardening while there is still light. Then a late night as it's another relaxing day tomorrow.

 

And only five days a week and every weekend off!

 

Come Christmas there's a fortnight off to really enjoy the festive spirit, and see one's kids open their presents. That's special family time. Oh, and the chance to get really drunk knowing you've days to get over the hangover before returning to work.

 

How they must feel sorry for those workers who are away working for months and months on end. The must really pity those who work away from family and loved ones, and thank goodness they don't have to do that.

 

At least they don't have to put up with rude customers, people who treat them like slaves. How they must revel in their ability to say "do it yourself, you obese foul-mouthed pompous self-important ill-dressed slob" with no repercussions, and then get back to that nap...

 

Yes, such a cushy life, being a steward on a cruise ship. A lot like pen-pushers in offices really; plenty of time to count paper-clips, and do an inventory of pencils.

 

And then they have the nerve to expect extra money from customers on top of their expense-account enhanced salary (with company car) for this cushy, pampered life! Never.

Lets stop the sanctimony shall we ?

Being a waiter is a unskilled manual job and that is a fact. That's the way the world works.

It's low paid because it's low skilled. Some people do highly skilled job and get much higher wages. Some people do low skilled manual labour and get low wages. Get over it.

Then don't do it then.

Lets stop the sanctimony shall we ? Being a waiter is a unskilled manual job and that is a fact. That's the way the world works. It's low paid because it's low skilled. Some people do highly skilled job and get much higher wages. Some people do low skilled manual labour and get low wages. Get over it.

I think people who work in public-facing service industries are skilled. Skilled in diplomacy. In listening. In anticipating. In a steward's case, in making each and every person they serve feel that they are the only person on board. In ensuring that one's annual vacation/holiday is memorable for all the right reasons.

(I know people who work in offices with only one skill; how to ignore a ringing telephone ('cus it will mean work)).

When I am on a ship I am aware that people are working very hard to ensure that I don't.

As I said, for that, I am grateful. I cannot understand how anyone wouldn't be.

I think it was Norman Tebbit, a UK Government Minister, who when directing his words to the unemployed in the UK said 'if you really want job get on your bike, look for work and relocate if you have to', or words to that effect. I am sure that the majority of staff on cruise ships have done exactly this. If they cannot get work, or only get work that is very low paid in their own countries, many will search for other options, and working as a crew member on cruise ships may sound like a great opportunity to work and earn a living for their families. Therefore I don't think we should compare what a waiter/room cleaner earns either as wages or tips in the USA or UK as the circumstances are very different. When I have traveled on cruise ships many of the staff seem to to work hard but also play hard. Each port day you can see groups of them, all wearing the latest designer gear, with smart phones etc. smiling, looking happy and enjoying getting off the ship to visit the town. I have no problem with that at all, I think, as we all probably do, it is well deserved. Now for the part where grats are concerned.....as a UK citizen I am used to tipping some occupations and not others. I tip my hairdresser, taxi driver, waiter, porter, as others. However, I do not go around the back kitchens in restaurants tipping every member of staff, nor do I do that in my hairdressers shop etc. Also, when I book a room in a hotel I don't usually tip staff there, as I have paid good money to use their facilities and I look upon the hotel to provide and pay staff to help me do that. In my mind the same thing can be said of cruise ships, Cunard, Princess etc. should all pay their staff a living wage based on their position in the crew. If they don't do this it is actually them that are 'stiffing' the crew, not the cruise passengers! I do usually pay my grats via my daily account, but I would definitely rather pay 'tips' to those who have actually impressed me personally otherwise where is the incentive for crew members to 'up their game'? Please, isn't it time we all stop feeling sorry for crew members and complaining about other holidaymakers not paying tips; time would be better spent campaigning for cruise lines to pay their staff a living wage using rates that can be transparent for all to see. The way they run the system now only pitches guest against guest, rather than guests against the cruise lines!!

I do agree with you but they only way tipping will go away is if the cruise lines don't allow staff to accept tips. We sail on Crystal sometimes and I was happy when they changed their pricing and policy to include tipping so I didn't have to deal with who to tip and how much to tip. Well, everyone continued to tip, particularly because the ship is often filled with Americans. I'm British but I live in the U.S. Tipping is so ingrained in the U.S. culture that no matter how high the cruise lines raise their prices to include tipping if it's still possible to tip, Americans will tip.

I do agree with you but they only way tipping will go away is if the cruise lines don't allow staff to accept tips. We sail on Crystal sometimes and I was happy when they changed their pricing and policy to include tipping so I didn't have to deal with who to tip and how much to tip. Well, everyone continued to tip, particularly because the ship is often filled with Americans. I'm British but I live in the U.S. Tipping is so ingrained in the U.S. culture that no matter how high the cruise lines raise their prices to include tipping if it's still possible to tip, Americans will tip.

I agree but the problem is that tipping is not ingrained in UK culture like it is in the US as service staff in UK do not have to rely on tips for a living wage because we have a higher minimum wage in the UK than they have in US. What annoys me, especially with the exchange rate being so poor in UK for the US dollar, it makes the payment of tips very expensive and some of the nasty vitriolic said by US cruisers calling people from the UK "mean" and "stiffing the staff" and those are only the polite words spoken by some.

I agree but the problem is that tipping is not ingrained in UK culture like it is in the US as service staff in UK do not have to rely on tips for a living wage because we have a higher minimum wage in the UK than they have in US. What annoys me, especially with the exchange rate being so poor in UK for the US dollar, it makes the payment of tips very expensive and some of the nasty vitriolic said by US cruisers calling people from the UK "mean" and "stiffing the staff" and those are only the polite words spoken by some.

You seem to be making a justification for doing so by citing the USD/GBP exchange rate. Some will state "financial circumstances" or that they are a retiree ("pensioner" on your side of the pond) as their reason. Whatever one wants to call the removal of gratuities, for whatever reason, the service crew ends up getting less money.

If one cannot afford to pay the auto gratuities then one cannot afford the sailing.

Whenever a tipping thread starts the experts on Webster's Dictionary emerge with dissertations on the definition of "gratuity" and "tip". On a gratuities-included fare it would not surprise me if the Purser got requests from some passengers for a refund of the gratuity portion of their fare - arguing that it's discretionary and therefore it makes no difference that it was rolled into the total fare.

You seem to be making a justification for doing so by citing the USD/GBP exchange rate. Some will state "financial circumstances" or that they are a retiree ("pensioner" on your side of the pond) as their reason. Whatever one wants to call the removal of gratuities, for whatever reason, the service crew ends up getting less money.

 

If one cannot afford to pay the auto gratuities then one cannot afford the sailing.

 

Whenever a tipping thread starts the experts on Webster's Dictionary emerge with dissertations on the definition of "gratuity" and "tip". On a gratuities-included fare it would not surprise me if the Purser got requests from some passengers for a refund of the gratuity portion of their fare - arguing that it's discretionary and therefore it makes no difference that it was rolled into the total fare.

Sorry but it is the cruise lines responsibility to pay their staff a decent wage not mine.

It has already been said, the subject of gratuities always seems to highlight the difference in the culture of tipping between countries, especially between the USA and Europe. I am personally not against tipping but being British I do expect something for the extra cash that I am spending. But such "threads" as this, always seem to suggest that they are compulsory, with some even suggesting that if you can't afford the gratuities then you cant afford to take the cruise. Well I can afford the cruise (including the tips) but as I have already said, I do expect something for my money. If I book a 5 star cruise, then I expect the service to match - isn't that what I am paying for. If its better, then I am happy to tip. However, I just cant buy into this whole you must tip no matter what. If you think that this makes me a bad person, then well I must be a bad person. However, in reality, it is the cruise company's who are short changing their staff on their wages that are at fault. Pay them what the job is really worth and let tips be what they should be, recognition of excellent service - not payment for the norm.

The thing I do not understand is this:

The price of a cruise is made of of many things:

Fuel

Port Fees

Food

Ship admin

Staff pay

Shore side admin

Repairs

Profit

and all sorts of endless other things that must have to be paid for.

So my question is; why itemise out one single item ? Nothing else is itemised, so why itemise out "gratuities" ?

I've seen complaints that prices for members of the UK are considerably higher than for cruisers from the US. I'm not sure the price difference is. I'll give a clue: I've gotten numerous mailings on booking Trans Atlantic cruises starting at about $720 for an inside cabin. Any idea how much it would be for a person from the UK? That might show how the gratuities are figured into the cost for non US pax.

Easy solution is to do what we have done on our last two QM2 voyages - book via US agents. Even with the terrible (for us exchange rate) it had been cheaper to book this way.

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Easy solution is to do what we have done on our last two QM2 voyages - book via US agents. Even with the terrible (for us exchange rate) it had been cheaper to book this way.

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Forums mobile app

ABTA and ATOL protected? Therein lies the problem. All very clever booking in US, but when something goes wrong you don't get the same protection afforded to US residents.

The thing I do not understand is this:

 

The price of a cruise is made of of many things:

 

Fuel

Port Fees

Food

Ship admin

Staff pay

Shore side admin

Repairs

Profit

and all sorts of endless other things that must have to be paid for.

 

So my question is; why itemise out one single item ? Nothing else is itemised, so why itemise out "gratuities" ?

Clues:

--all employees of Cunard that have checks cut out of the main office are subject to either UK or USA labor laws and taxes. Service personnel and certain jobs onboard are private contractors and must deal with their own home country and their tax systems.

--some cruises sell out at a discount and others sell out in the black. Money due to service personnel never changes much because of the "gratuity" system. The company may make little or no profit on certain heavily discounted cruises, but labor costs are covered for the most part. As long as that ship is "full" the service people make their money. One reason for the fire sale of cabins the last few weeks.

Yes, I am aware of the way the world works, but thank you for your concern.

 

I think people who work in public-facing service industries are skilled. Skilled in diplomacy. In listening. In anticipating. In a steward's case, in making each and every person they serve feel that they are the only person on board. In ensuring that one's annual vacation/holiday is memorable for all the right reasons.

 

(I know people who work in offices with only one skill; how to ignore a ringing telephone ('cus it will mean work)).

 

When I am on a ship I am aware that people are working very hard to ensure that I don't.

 

As I said, for that, I am grateful. I cannot understand how anyone wouldn't be.

This is beautifully said. And has the virtue of being correct.

Yes, I am aware of the way the world works, but thank you for your concern.

 

I think people who work in public-facing service industries are skilled. Skilled in diplomacy. In listening. In anticipating. In a steward's case, in making each and every person they serve feel that they are the only person on board. In ensuring that one's annual vacation/holiday is memorable for all the right reasons.

 

(I know people who work in offices with only one skill; how to ignore a ringing telephone ('cus it will mean work)).

 

When I am on a ship I am aware that people are working very hard to ensure that I don't.

 

As I said, for that, I am grateful. I cannot understand how anyone wouldn't be.

This is beautifully said. And has the virtue of being correct.

:) I love it when people express so well what I was thinking, but couldn't put into words!

Cheers,

Salacia

I also agree!

 

A steward's job is so cushy; lazily wake up at a sensible hour, spend time with their wife/husband over breakfast on the verandah, see the kids off to school. Start work at the office at 9 (ish), lunch hour (ish) break at 1, finish at 5 (ish). Then home to see the family and nice relaxing unwind in front of the TV in the evening, or maybe a couple of hours gardening while there is still light. Then a late night as it's another relaxing day tomorrow.

 

And only five days a week and every weekend off!

 

Come Christmas there's a fortnight off to really enjoy the festive spirit, and see one's kids open their presents. That's special family time. Oh, and the chance to get really drunk knowing you've days to get over the hangover before returning to work.

 

How they must feel sorry for those workers who are away working for months and months on end. The must really pity those who work away from family and loved ones, and thank goodness they don't have to do that.

 

At least they don't have to put up with rude customers, people who treat them like slaves. How they must revel in their ability to say "do it yourself, you obese foul-mouthed pompous self-important ill-dressed slob" with no repercussions, and then get back to that nap...

 

Yes, such a cushy life, being a steward on a cruise ship. A lot like pen-pushers in offices really; plenty of time to count paper-clips, and do an inventory of pencils.

 

And then they have the nerve to expect extra money from customers on top of their expense-account enhanced salary (with company car) for this cushy, pampered life! Never.

So I'm a professional, before I became ill my working day went from 4:00 am to 9:00 pm Six days a week and about 8:00 to 8:00 on Sunday. I had plenty of rude clients, just as many rude professionals I had to deal with, never expected anything over my salary (when employed) or my agreed fee (when self-employed) I don't get your point.

Before I entered my profession I worked in many jobs, retail for example, often put in 70+ hour weeks, nothing over my pay.

My dad was a truck driver, 100 hours a week was the norm, no tipping there.

I have never understood how America decided which jobs get tipped and paid a pittance and which got a decent wage and no tips.

By the same token it seems to me that at least some of the tipped positions are just unnecessary jobs yo give someone something to do. One example the bell boy, never needed anyone to carry my bags for me, not even while I was in a wheelchair, so maybe that's why the hotels don't pay them and make them live on tips.

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

I have never understood how America decided which jobs get tipped and paid a pittance and which got a decent wage and no tips.

 

.

Tipping on board cruise ships goes way back to the earliest cruises, when the majority of passengers were Europeans. My suggestion is that we stick to the topic of tipping on cruise ships at sea, and not the local custom at home.