Jeans Turned Away on Gala Night

I have little respect for those who wish to impose their preferences on others.

What another passenger wears is the concern of the matre'd. It is not the concern of any other passenger.

What other passengers wear IS the concern of other passengers whose reasonable expectations concerning dress in the MDR are not met. One of the reasons people choose a cruise line is the ambience expected.

If you can intimidate the maitre d' into letting you into the MDR despite your not conforming to stated dress requirements, you have imposed your preferences upon others.

I'm not debating what the dress code says.

There are many who believe that the cruising experience could be improved by changing the code. What should the dress code say?

 

Would requiring men to wear jackets make the dinning experience better? Why?

 

Would allowing shorts ruin the dining experience?

Why?

 

My Answer: It is one aspect of MANY that make a difference. First, the post is about Dinning.

 

Will my steak taste worse if it served on a plastic plate?

Will my steak taste worse if I use a spork?

Will my steak taste worse if it has no smell?

Will my steak taste worse if it has a bad smell?

Will my steak taste worse if I do not have Silver Ware?

Will my steak taste worse if the server just throws the steak down?

Will my steak taste worse if it looks like blue jeans?

 

Maybe maybe not. Surroundings do make a difference directly and indirectly.

I would not go back a second time if the above were true.

I agree with the "dress to impress." It is more than silly. It reeks of elitism.

 

But caps inside? Really? We were taught as children that caps were not worn indoors. Was it really necessary to specify that in the dress code? I realize that times are changing and dress is becoming less formal - way less formal. However, being neat, tidy and punctual are still considered good manners. Arriving at your host's home for a nice dinner deserves showing up in clothes that indicate respect for your host. And that is not in a baseball cap and t-shirt. Respect goes without saying. It should not require putting it in writing.

Well said, and a plea to those continuing to engage with Rocketman and his peers....desist, and he will have no one to argue with!;)

Well said, and a plea to those continuing to engage with Rocketman and his peers....desist, and he will have no one to argue with!;)

YOU win the internet today!!!

Thats great, but they need to enforce the dress rule at all times. Whilst on the Eurodam, a women was turned away quite rightly wearing shorts, but they let her boyfriend in with shorts. It should be no shorts on any night in the MDR

That seems to be a double standard...I wonder what the reasoning was behind that decision.

What other passengers wear IS the concern of other passengers whose reasonable expectations concerning dress in the MDR are not met. One of the reasons people choose a cruise line is the ambience expected.

 

If you can intimidate the maitre d' into letting you into the MDR despite your not conforming to stated dress requirements, you have imposed your preferences upon others.

I've never attempted to intimidate the maitre d'. Nor have I ever entered the MDR not in accordance with the dress code. So, yes, other's have imposed their preferences. I believe the dress code will be relaxed and I believe the majority of the passengers will approve of a more casual 'ambiance'.

I've never attempted to intimidate the maitre d'. Nor have I ever entered the MDR not in accordance with the dress code. So, yes, other's have imposed their preferences. I believe the dress code will be relaxed and I believe the majority of the passengers will approve of a more casual 'ambiance'.

If it gets any more casual, we will be wearing our pajamas!

Well said, and a plea to those continuing to engage with Rocketman and his peers....desist, and he will have no one to argue with!;)

Unfortunately these things DO have to be put in writing. So many people these days never learned how to dress properly for specific occasions. Ball Caps? Really? How completely uncouth.

dmg1956

If it gets any more casual, we will be wearing our pajamas!

Oh, No! I don't want to buy something I would only wear to dinner on a cruise!

My preference? I would suggest segregating the MDR:

Those desiring a more casual dining experience would reserve As You Wish Dining and would be seated on the lower level. Shorts, jeans, polo shirts, and ball caps would be allowed. No swim wear. The matre d' could exclude those in thongs, etc.

Those desiring a more formal dining experience would indicate Traditional Dining. They would be seated on the upper level allowing them to look down upon the greater unwashed. There they would sip their sparkling wine and observe the dissolute masses on the lower floor while filling out their Fashion Police Scorecards.

Thats great, but they need to enforce the dress rule at all times. Whilst on the Eurodam, a women was turned away quite rightly wearing shorts, but they let her boyfriend in with shorts. It should be no shorts on any night in the MDR

That seems to be a double standard...I wonder what the reasoning was behind that decision.

Her boyfriend was Tony Soprano perhaps?

Oh, No! I don't want to buy something I would only wear to dinner on a cruise!

 

My preference? I would suggest segregating the MDR:

 

Those desiring a more casual dining experience would reserve As You Wish Dining and would be seated on the lower level. Shorts, jeans, polo shirts, and ball caps would be allowed. No swim wear. The matre d' could exclude those in thongs, etc.

 

Those desiring a more formal dining experience would indicate Traditional Dining. They would be seated on the upper level allowing them to look down upon the greater unwashed. There they would sip their sparkling wine and observe the dissolute masses on the lower floor while filling out their Fashion Police Scorecards.

It already is segregated. Those who wish to follow the published rules are welcome in the MDR, all others have two venues to choose from, Lido or their room.

Oh, No! I don't want to buy something I would only wear to dinner on a cruise!

 

My preference? I would suggest segregating the MDR:

 

Those desiring a more casual dining experience would reserve As You Wish Dining and would be seated on the lower level. Shorts, jeans, polo shirts, and ball caps would be allowed. No swim wear. The matre d' could exclude those in thongs, etc.

 

Those desiring a more formal dining experience would indicate Traditional Dining. They would be seated on the upper level allowing them to look down upon the greater unwashed. There they would sip their sparkling wine and observe the dissolute masses on the lower floor while filling out their Fashion Police Scorecards.

Good idea. I started thinking that, at page five or so. And I'm more on the other side of this issue, though not totally. It wouldn't matter which dress code was on which level of the MDR. Is this idea really feasible, though?

BTW, although I got a kick out of your post, we all know expensive tastes (sparkling wine or what not) are decidedly NOT the exclusive domain of the dress-code traditionalists.

Nothing showcases the judgmental people of the HAL board like a dress thread. :rolleyes:

Nothing showcases the judgmental people of the HAL board like a dress thread. :rolleyes:

FWIW, it is the same on every cruise line board.

Oh, No! I don't want to buy something I would only wear to dinner on a cruise!

 

My preference? I would suggest segregating the MDR:

 

Those desiring a more casual dining experience would reserve As You Wish Dining and would be seated on the lower level. Shorts, jeans, polo shirts, and ball caps would be allowed. No swim wear. The matre d' could exclude those in thongs, etc.

 

Those desiring a more formal dining experience would indicate Traditional Dining. They would be seated on the upper level allowing them to look down upon the greater unwashed. There they would sip their sparkling wine and observe the dissolute masses on the lower floor while filling out their Fashion Police Scorecards.

If you take away the sarcasm and ridicule, I believe this is a workable concept. Give more people what they want. Clearly this issue is divisive over personal preference. I'm growing tired of each side taking the inventory and defining the other. It cheapens the debate. Each side has its own points.

The trend is toward more casual. And particularly in beach destinations, some people don't want to go through that much of a change for dinner. Fine. On the other hand, for some folks being on a cruise is entirely a special occasion and dressing for dinner/being in formal environs is an important part of it...a departure from the norm, like going to a wedding or anniversary or a special party. Who would want to take that away from someone's experience?

In the end we're choosing a cruise line and it has its rules. there are other cruise lines with other rules. The debate is taking place here (is it ever!) but it seems like the real argument is with the cruise line. When we choose a trip and purchase a ticket, aren't we agreeing to their terms? I don't know if anyone from HAL monitors these debates, but if they see the passion at which this issue is discussed, I hope they are working on a solution that allows more people to be satisfied. Clearly, it's not an either/or solution for the whole ship.

Sincerely,

Bruce

It already is segregated. Those who wish to follow the published rules are welcome in the MDR, all others have two venues to choose from, Lido or their room.

Of course, room service is also an option for those offended by what others choose to wear.

Of course, room service is also an option for those offended by what others choose to wear.

RocketMan, if I may ask, what do you really think? Do you ever "dress up" anywhere for any reason? Are you just a contrarian? Do you mostly follow the beat of your own drummer? Do you cut your grass or have someone cut it (if you have any) or just let it grow....Thanks!

 

If you take away the sarcasm and ridicule, I believe this is a workable concept. Give more people what they want. Clearly this issue is divisive over personal preference. I'm growing tired of each side taking the inventory and defining the other. It cheapens the debate. Each side has its own points.

 

The trend is toward more casual. And particularly in beach destinations, some people don't want to go through that much of a change for dinner. Fine. On the other hand, for some folks being on a cruise is entirely a special occasion and dressing for dinner/being in formal environs is an important part of it...a departure from the norm, like going to a wedding or anniversary or a special party. Who would want to take that away from someone's experience?

 

In the end we're choosing a cruise line and it has its rules. there are other cruise lines with other rules. The debate is taking place here (is it ever!) but it seems like the real argument is with the cruise line. When we choose a trip and purchase a ticket, aren't we agreeing to their terms? I don't know if anyone from HAL monitors these debates, but if they see the passion at which this issue is discussed, I hope they are working on a solution that allows more people to be satisfied. Clearly, it's not an either/or solution for the whole ship.

 

Sincerely,

Bruce

You have made some very valid points. Well stated IMO. Hopefully HAL someday will make some adjustments that will make everybody (or almost everybody) happier. It certainly is a passionate topic and gets many posters very cranked up.

Required dress for HAL's Gala Nights is a veryyyy low bar considering we used to wear long dresses and tuxs. To clear this bar does not take a lot of extra suitcase space.:rolleyes:

From Cruise Critic's Info Pages:

The Code: Holland America has formal optional and smart casual evenings. The line calls its formal nights "Gala Nights" and its formal dress "Gala Attire." This attire includes collared shirts and slacks for men in all fine dining restaurants, and dresses, skirts or slacks for women.Sep 21, 2017

Your outrage is misdirected.

I’m not outraged. I’m amused.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I agree with the "dress to impress." It is more than silly. It reeks of elitism.

 

 

 

But caps inside? Really? We were taught as children that caps were not worn indoors. Was it really necessary to specify that in the dress code? I realize that times are changing and dress is becoming less formal - way less formal. However, being neat, tidy and punctual are still considered good manners. Arriving at your host's home for a nice dinner deserves showing up in clothes that indicate respect for your host. And that is not in a baseball cap and t-shirt. Respect goes without saying. It should not require putting it in writing.

And today’s children and young adults are taught that hats are fine inside.

Whose generation wins? Which one is correct?

I’d say that today’s norms wins!

Every day attitudes about attire, social niceties, clothes, gender equality, etc is changing by leaps and bounds.

What was fine or standard yesterday is not what goes today.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

RocketMan, if I may ask, what do you really think? Do you ever "dress up" anywhere for any reason? Are you just a contrarian? Do you mostly follow the beat of your own drummer? Do you cut your grass or have someone cut it (if you have any) or just let it grow....Thanks!

I’m not arguing for the sake of argument, ie, a contrarian. I recognize that some view dining in the MDR as a special occasion requiring special clothing. They feel that they have the right to insist that others wear special dress to preserve this special ambiance.

I am trying to make a point. I believe that no one has the right to impose their preferences to enhance their own enjoyment. The other passengers are not “extras” in someone else’s version of the movie Titanic. Telling them to dine in the Lido is not showing them the respect they deserve.

I am very familiar with the dress code. The fact that I adhere to the code doesn’t mean that I approve of it. I believe the dress code should be changed to accommodate a broader demographic. The MDR is a big place with room for those who wish to dress up and those who do not. Those who are offended by such trivial things as the sight of a ball cop or a pair of blue jeans need to take responsibility for their emotional reactions Life is so much more enjoyable when you refuse to let others control your emotions.

Allowing jeans doesn’t mean we have to allow thongs or speedos. Carnival cruisers will not takeover Holland and make us watch hairy legs contests during dinner. Our steaks won’t smell funny. We won’t be eating on paper plates with plastic utensils. I would say we will still have fine wine but I don’t think Holland offers fine wines now.

We’re retired. We usually decline all invitations to any event requiring more than smart casual. Once upon a time I lived in a trailer on a dirt road. Now, I live close enough to walk to the country club house We wore blue jeans to dinner there last night and our server did not throw our dinner down on the table. Our lawn is professionally maintained. We have received numerous compliments.

If you take away the sarcasm and ridicule, I believe this is a workable concept. Give more people what they want. Clearly this issue is divisive over personal preference. I'm growing tired of each side taking the inventory and defining the other. It cheapens the debate. Each side has its own points.

You'll find that many do not think segregating the dinning room is workable. They will complain that it is too complex. It will divide families when some wan't do dine casually and others do not. They will even argue that the mere sight of a ball cap will ruin their ambiance. Ultimately, they will argue that they are satisfied with the current situation and anyone who doesn't like it can dine in the Lido or cruise on another line.

The trend is toward more casual. And particularly in beach destinations, some people don't want to go through that much of a change for dinner. Fine. On the other hand, for some folks being on a cruise is entirely a special occasion and dressing for dinner/being in formal environs is an important part of it...a departure from the norm, like going to a wedding or anniversary or a special party. Who would want to take that away from someone's experience?

No one is arguing to take anyone's ability to dress in a special manner for a special occasion.

In the end we're choosing a cruise line and it has its rules. there are other cruise lines with other rules. The debate is taking place here (is it ever!) but it seems like the real argument is with the cruise line. When we choose a trip and purchase a ticket, aren't we agreeing to their terms? I don't know if anyone from HAL monitors these debates, but if they see the passion at which this issue is discussed, I hope they are working on a solution that allows more people to be satisfied. Clearly, it's not an either/or solution for the whole ship.

 

Sincerely,

Bruce

We're certainly agreeing to the terms and conditions of the cruise ticket. That doesn't mean we cannot make suggestions to improve the product.

And today’s children and young adults are taught that hats are fine inside.

 

Whose generation wins? Which one is correct?

 

I’d say that today’s norms wins!

 

Every day attitudes about attire, social niceties, clothes, gender equality, etc is changing by leaps and bounds.

 

What was fine or standard yesterday is not what goes today.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Cruising rules change as the times change.

There is a picture of a young woman first class passenger riding an exercise bike on a cruise ship around the time of the Titanic. She's wearing a floor length dress. She was wearing a hat.

There was a reason why first class passengers took aboard so many chests containing clothes. They often were crossing the Atlantic to spend months in Europe. They were often bringing home chests containing the latest fashions. But, they also changed clothes three/four/five times a day while on the voyage.

I just don't get the ball caps, worn either normally or backwards. Don't hide it under a cap !!

Apparently you did not see RedneckBob post that he wore a cap in the MDR to hide a medical issue.

As far as wearing baseball caps this is what I know;

If you wear the cap forward (normal) this is old school

Caps worn backwards is new school

Caps worn sideways is NO school :D:D