Woolloomooloo hullabaloo: Locals don't want cruise liners at Garden Island

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#61
Sydney
33 Posts
Joined Oct 2014
Hi all
Well it is now 2017 and the debate is still going on about where to berth the oversupply of cruise ships on Sydney Harbour and no closer to solving it.
Someone in this post mentioned about putting the cruise ships at the old HMAS Platypus dock and I think that has some merit but would probably need dredging to accommodate the large ships then you will no doubt get resistance from residence in that area about causing congestion in the area. Sydney needs Tourist money to help local businesses and increase jobs.
Another idea is maybe a floating dock that can easily be put into place when a ship is expected in port, bit like what they do when the International boat show is on in Darling Harbour but a much bigger scale then remove when not in use and use charter boats to ferry the passengers to Circular Quay or pick up passengers for their booked tours.
Maybe a good place to put the floating dock would be in that area between Robertson Light house and Bradleys head or around the corner at Port Jackson Bay as these areas are out of the way of the shipping lanes. May need dredging to fit the ships. I am pretty sure that the HMAS Melbourne was anchored in that area between Roberson Light house and Bradleys Head but more near the Bradlys Head side and the Aircraft Carrier Melbourne had a draft of around 25ft, so is possible.
#63
Batehaven, Australia
10,128 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by Sutho
I do not think the RAN will be happy sharing if they have to move their ships.

The Garden Island wharfs are not long enough to share. When the Canberra class arrives they can only dock where the QM2 docks. The wharfs are not straight. There is no room at Garden Island as the wharfs are far too short to support cruise ships and warships.
Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.

As for QM2, when we were on her in March, Sydney to HK, she berthed at the Overseas Passenger Terminal - Circular, bit of overhang, but all the large ships overhang a bit there, no dramas, they just reverse in to their berth.
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#64
Queensland
6,953 Posts
Joined Dec 2009
Originally posted by NSWP
Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.

As for QM2, when we were on her in March, Sydney to HK, she berthed at the Overseas Passenger Terminal - Circular, bit of overhang, but all the large ships overhang a bit there, no dramas, they just reverse in to their berth.
I agree with your suggestions, but I don't suppose our opinions will count for much.
#65
Batehaven, Australia
10,128 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by Aus Traveller
I agree with your suggestions, but I don't suppose our opinions will count for much.
Muchas Gracias, Senorita/Senora. (Covering all the bases.)

Buenos Dias.
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Cheers..(Uncle) LES - Princess Captains Circle Elite. - 460 days.

Cruised with Princess, Celebrity, Cunard, P&O Australia, P&O UK, Carnival, Sitmar, Sydney Harbour Ferries. World Cruise, plus British Isles, Europe, Med, Greek Isles, Transatlantic, Asia, USA, Panama Canal, South America, Central America, Caribbean, Alaska, Canada, Japan, South Pacific, Australia, New Zealand.!

**Last cruise: Queen Mary 2 - Sydney - HK, 16 nights, 2 - 18 March 2017.

**Next: (We were booked on Adonia x 2, but they sold the ship on us.)
Sapphire Princess - 26 May 2018, Scandinavia, ex Southampton - 7 nights B2B with..
Sapphire Princess - 2 June 2018, Baltic Heritage, ex Southampton - 14 nights.
Royal Princess - 18 June 2018 - British Isles, ex Southampton - 12 nights.

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#66
596 Posts
Joined Jul 2015
Originally posted by NSWP
Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.
.
Why is there a need to bring more money into Sydney Uncle Les? Pretty sure there is plenty of it there already the residents stare at it everyday held within their 4 walls............. Maybe we should share the love and move the money to other areas like Newcastle or Jervis Bay?
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#67
Batehaven, Australia
10,128 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by Womble99
Why is there a need to bring more money into Sydney Uncle Les? Pretty sure there is plenty of it there already the residents stare at it everyday held within their 4 walls............. Maybe we should share the love and move the money to other areas like Newcastle or Jervis Bay?
Or send them to Port Kembla, beautiful scenic views of the Steelworks and they can breathe in the polluting smoke. The Illawarra needs the tourist dollar too. A few cruise ships have actually called into Port Kembla. Don't know why, I lived in the 'Gong back in the 1970's. The pollution probably caused my lung problems.
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Cruised with Princess, Celebrity, Cunard, P&O Australia, P&O UK, Carnival, Sitmar, Sydney Harbour Ferries. World Cruise, plus British Isles, Europe, Med, Greek Isles, Transatlantic, Asia, USA, Panama Canal, South America, Central America, Caribbean, Alaska, Canada, Japan, South Pacific, Australia, New Zealand.!

**Last cruise: Queen Mary 2 - Sydney - HK, 16 nights, 2 - 18 March 2017.

**Next: (We were booked on Adonia x 2, but they sold the ship on us.)
Sapphire Princess - 26 May 2018, Scandinavia, ex Southampton - 7 nights B2B with..
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#68
I come from a land down under
23,420 Posts
Joined Jul 2014
One problem is they never saw it coming.

To a degree that’s understandable as cruising was once the domain of the “well to do”.

By the time the powers to be saw the industry would inject huge money into the economy the best spots for a dock were all gone.
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#69
Sydney, Australia
13,964 Posts
Joined Oct 2008
Originally posted by NSWP
Time to move the Navy base to Jervis Bay or Newcastle. Give Garden Island back to the people and the cruise lines, bring some money in to Sydney.
Given Garden Island is used by the Navy, part of the Defence department of Australia, it is already held by the people.

If it's sold off for cruise access, then it will most likely not be any more held by the people...
#70
Sydney, Australia
13,964 Posts
Joined Oct 2008
Originally posted by GUT2407
By the time the powers to be saw the industry would inject huge money into the economy the best spots for a dock were all gone.
I'm still sceptical that "huge money" does come in from cruises.

It's certainly profitable for the operators so you can see why they try to sell that argument.

But every cruise I'm on the pax barely spend anything ashore, often not wanting to buy any souvenirs at all, looking for free tours/transport, and often eating mostly onboard as well. Of course, there's a small amount of spending ashore for incidentals, but I can't see how the big numbers they claim are being generated. Especially for domestic oriented cruises; those getting international visitors usually get some more spending, but the stats on Australian cruises show how much of it is Australian traffic, where shore spending is minimised.
#71
Melbourne
525 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
The income is not just derived from passenger expenditure, especially at turnaround ports.

Port of Sydney charges $35 per passenger (capacity), plus all sorts of other fees like pilots etc.

Add to that all the expenditure in food, drinks and other provisions, fuel oil, and whatever else is put onboard.

As we see on this board, some of the tourist expenditure is not the day tripping, it is the extra days either side of a cruise.

And of course, the booming pie business.

https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/...bour_final.pdf
#72
Queensland
6,953 Posts
Joined Dec 2009
Sydney is nearly always a turn-around port, not just a port day on a cruise. From reading this forum, many Australian passengers fly into Sydney the day before. They then have to pay for a night's accommodation and meals even if they don't do any or much sightseeing before the cruise. They also have to have transport to and from the ship. All this helps create jobs.
#73
I come from a land down under
23,420 Posts
Joined Jul 2014
Originally posted by Docker123
The income is not just derived from passenger expenditure, especially at turnaround ports.

Port of Sydney charges $35 per passenger (capacity), plus all sorts of other fees like pilots etc.

Add to that all the expenditure in food, drinks and other provisions, fuel oil, and whatever else is put onboard.

As we see on this board, some of the tourist expenditure is not the day tripping, it is the extra days either side of a cruise.

And of course, the booming pie business.

https://www.portauthoritynsw.com.au/...bour_final.pdf

Yes mustn’t forget the pie sales, wonder of they can dock down at the ‘loo or would lawsie and rusty get upset.
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#74
Batehaven, Australia
10,128 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by The_Big_M
Given Garden Island is used by the Navy, part of the Defence department of Australia, it is already held by the people.

If it's sold off for cruise access, then it will most likely not be any more held by the people...
But the cruise ships won't take up all of Garden Island. I have been inside it, it is big. Even with a cruise terminal there, a nice foreshore park could be established for the 'people.'
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Cheers..(Uncle) LES - Princess Captains Circle Elite. - 460 days.

Cruised with Princess, Celebrity, Cunard, P&O Australia, P&O UK, Carnival, Sitmar, Sydney Harbour Ferries. World Cruise, plus British Isles, Europe, Med, Greek Isles, Transatlantic, Asia, USA, Panama Canal, South America, Central America, Caribbean, Alaska, Canada, Japan, South Pacific, Australia, New Zealand.!

**Last cruise: Queen Mary 2 - Sydney - HK, 16 nights, 2 - 18 March 2017.

**Next: (We were booked on Adonia x 2, but they sold the ship on us.)
Sapphire Princess - 26 May 2018, Scandinavia, ex Southampton - 7 nights B2B with..
Sapphire Princess - 2 June 2018, Baltic Heritage, ex Southampton - 14 nights.
Royal Princess - 18 June 2018 - British Isles, ex Southampton - 12 nights.

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#75
116 Posts
Joined Feb 2017
I think the ideal spot would be adjacent to Mrs Macquarie's Chair. Rename the area to Royal Caribbean Botanical Gardens.

Problem solved!


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#76
Batehaven, Australia
10,128 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by banzaii
I think the ideal spot would be adjacent to Mrs Macquarie's Chair. Rename the area to Royal Caribbean Botanical Gardens.

Problem solved!


Sent from my iPad using Forums
A better one would be Malcolm T's wharf @ Kirribilli House on the foreshores of ye olde Sydney Harbour. Use the residence as a cruise terminal and a spot for Harry De Wheels pie cart near the gate. That is giving something back to the people.
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Cheers..(Uncle) LES - Princess Captains Circle Elite. - 460 days.

Cruised with Princess, Celebrity, Cunard, P&O Australia, P&O UK, Carnival, Sitmar, Sydney Harbour Ferries. World Cruise, plus British Isles, Europe, Med, Greek Isles, Transatlantic, Asia, USA, Panama Canal, South America, Central America, Caribbean, Alaska, Canada, Japan, South Pacific, Australia, New Zealand.!

**Last cruise: Queen Mary 2 - Sydney - HK, 16 nights, 2 - 18 March 2017.

**Next: (We were booked on Adonia x 2, but they sold the ship on us.)
Sapphire Princess - 26 May 2018, Scandinavia, ex Southampton - 7 nights B2B with..
Sapphire Princess - 2 June 2018, Baltic Heritage, ex Southampton - 14 nights.
Royal Princess - 18 June 2018 - British Isles, ex Southampton - 12 nights.

'Adventure before Dementia - Live for Today !!'
#77
Wellington. New Zealand
2,824 Posts
Joined Dec 2013
The issue with Sydney is similar to that of Auckland and that is with more and more cruise ships getting larger and larger and coming more frequently there are limited spaces they can go hence many have to anchor in the stream and tender their passengers ashore. With 6000 passengers now on the larger ships , tendering them ashore must be chaotic. Unfortunately cruise lines are not prepared to pay for infrastructure. Their view is they already pay too much in port charges for what cities get in return. Its a catch 22 situation if you build it they may come but if you don't they also wont
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#78
384 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
I mean ideally you could move RAN out of Garden Island altogether and transform it into a cultural/art hub with a cruise terminal (or 2). Obviously thats a bit problematic however...


#79
Sydney, Australia
13,964 Posts
Joined Oct 2008
Originally posted by Beanb41
Unfortunately cruise lines are not prepared to pay for infrastructure. Their view is they already pay too much in port charges for what cities get in return. Its a catch 22 situation if you build it they may come but if you don't they also wont
Cruise terminals are industry specific.

Unlike airports which have multiple purposes e.g. trade, business travel, personal, staff transport and so greater commercial benefit, the cruise industry is mono-focused, purely leisure, and purely for the benefit of the cruise lines. Thus, it's reasonable for them to pay their way and that cost will be greater given the limited uses and economic benefits. Do we subsidise hotels because they also attract leisure travellers? No, they have to stand on their own.