Tourists with MINOR criminal records being turned back at Canadian border

:eek: This is from the 2/23/07 San Francisco Chronicle--be prepared! (they do list the solution to this probelm at the end of the article):

Going to Canada? Check your past

Visitors with minor criminal records turned back at border

C.W. NEVIUS

Friday, February 23, 2007

There was a time not long ago when a trip across the border from the United States to Canada was accomplished with a wink and a wave of a driver's license. Those days are over.

Take the case of 55-year-old Lake Tahoe resident Greg Felsch. Stopped at the border in Vancouver this month at the start of a planned five-day ski trip, he was sent back to the United States because of a DUI conviction seven years ago. Not that he had any idea what was going on when he was told at customs: "Your next stop is immigration.''

Felsch was ushered into a room. "There must have been 75 people in line," he says. "We were there for three hours. One woman was in tears. A guy was sent back for having a medical marijuana card. I felt like a felon with an ankle bracelet.''

Or ask the well-to-do East Bay couple who flew to British Columbia this month for an eight-day ski vacation at the famed Whistler Chateau, where rooms run to $500 a night. They'd made the trip many times, but were surprised at the border to be told that the husband would have to report to "secondary'' immigration.

There, in a room he estimates was filled with 60 other concerned travelers, he was told he was "a person who was inadmissible to Canada.'' The problem? A conviction for marijuana possession.

In 1975.

Welcome to the new world of border security. Unsuspecting Americans are turning up at the Canadian border expecting clear sailing, only to find that their past -- sometimes their distant past -- is suddenly an issue.

While Canada officially has barred travelers convicted of criminal offenses for years, attorneys say post-9/11 information-gathering, combined with a sweeping agreement between Canada and the United States to share data, has resulted in a spike in phone calls from concerned travelers.

They are shocked to hear that the sins of their youth might keep them out of Canada. But what they don't know is that this is just the beginning. Soon other nations will be able to look into your past when you want to travel there.

"It's completely ridiculous,'' said Chris Cannon, an attorney representing the East Bay couple, who asked that their names not be used because they don't want their kids to know about the pot rap. "It's a disaster. I mean, who didn't smoke pot in the '70s?''

We're about to find out. And don't think you are in the clear if you never inhaled. Ever get nabbed for a DUI? How about shoplifting? Turn around. You aren't getting in.

"From the time that you turn 18, everything is in the system,'' says Lucy Perillo, whose Canada Border Crossing Service in Winnipeg, Manitoba, helps Americans get into the country.

Canadian attorney David Lesperance, an expert on customs and immigration, says he had a client who was involved in a fraternity prank 20 years ago. He was on a scavenger hunt, and the assignment was to steal something from a Piggly Wiggly supermarket. He got caught, paid a small fine and was ordered to sweep the police station parking lot.

He thought it was all forgotten. And it was, until he tried to cross the border.

The official word from the Canadian Border Services Agency is that this is nothing more than business as usual. Spokesman Derek Mellon gets a little huffy when asked why the border has become so strict.

"I think it is important to understand that you are entering another country,'' Mellon says. "You are not crossing the street.''

OK, but something changed here, didn't it?

"People say, 'I've been going to Canada for 20 years and never had a problem,' '' Lesperance says. "It's classic. I say, 'Well, you've been getting away with it for 20 years.' ''

A prior record has always made it difficult to cross the border. What you probably didn't know was that, as the Canadian Consulate's Web site says, "Driving while under the influence of alcohol is regarded as an extremely serious offense in Canada.''

So it isn't as if rules have stiffened. But what has changed is the way the information is gathered. In the wake of 9/11, Canada and the United States formed a partnership that has dramatically increased what Lesperance calls "the data mining'' system at the border.

The Smart Border Action Plan, as it is known, combines Canadian intelligence with extensive U.S. Homeland Security information. The partnership began in 2002, but it wasn't until recently that the system was refined.

"They can call up anything that your state trooper in Iowa can,'' Lesperance says. "As Canadians and Americans have begun cooperating, all those indiscretions from the '60s are going to come back and haunt us.''

Now, there's a scary thought. But the irony of the East Bay couple's situation is inescapable. Since their rowdy days in the '70s, they have created and sold a publishing company, purchased extensive real estate holdings and own a $3 million getaway home in Lake Tahoe.

"We've done pretty well since those days,'' she says. "But what I wonder is how many other people might be affected.''

The Canadian Border Services Agency says its statistics don't show an increase in the number of travelers turned back. But Cannon says that's because the "data mining'' has just begun to pick up momentum.

"It is too new to say,'' he says. "Put it this way. I am one lawyer in San Francisco, and I've had four of these cases in the last two years, two since January. And remember, a lot of people don't want to talk about it (because of embarrassment).''

Asked if there were more cases, attorney Lesperance was emphatic.

"Oh, yeah,'' he says. "Just the number of calls I get has gone up. If we factor in the greater ability to discover these cases, it is just mathematically logical that we are going to see more.''

The lesson, the attorneys say, is that if you must travel to Canada, you should apply for "a Minister's Approval of Rehabilitation" to wipe the record clear.

Oh, and by the way, if you don't need to travel to Canada, don't think you won't need to clear your record. Lesperance says it is just a matter of time before agreements are signed with governments in destinations like Japan, Indonesia and Europe.

"This,'' Lesperance says, "is just the edge of the wedge.''

Who would have thought a single, crazy night in college would follow you around the world?

Rules for getting

into Canada

For more information on offenses that prohibit entry to Canada, go to the Canadian Consulate's Web site at geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/seattle/visas/inadmissible-en.asp.

For more information on visiting Canada, go to cic.gc.ca. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/23/NEVIUS.TMP

This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle

How about underage drinking? My partner was ticketed for that when she was in college (she was 19 or 20), she'll be 34 this summer when we fly into Vancouver for our cruise. If it's going to be a problem, I'd rather have her fill out the paperwork now (I'm assuming I can get it off the website in the link)- anyone know how long it takes to be "rehabilitated" in the Canada beaucracy/paperwork process?

Thanks!

Dogdoc2002

addendum- just talked to my partner when she called from work- apparently it wasn't a criminal offense, just a civil ordinance violation- any ideas if that would change things?

The Canadian "bureaucracy" doesn't usually take very long to process this kind of thing. Because of the change in US law, there is currently a backlog on passports, but otherwise everything is running normally.

You can call your local Canadian consulate (or the closest one to you) and ask them. She will likely need to do the paperwork, but they can confirm. Once the paperwork is done, her record (as far as Canada is concerned) is expunged, but she should keep a record of this and travel with it.

In Canada you can ask the parole board to expunge your criminal record if you are considered rehabilitated. Even if you are, you may still be denied access to the US. We get asked if we have a criminal record every time we visit the US (we don't have one). It's pretty normal. If you do have a criminal record (or have HIV,) you need to apply to the US embassy/consulate for a visa to visit the US.

Have to agree with Ephraim, this works both ways. Any Canadian with a criminal record has not been allowed to enter the US for as long as I can remember.

I had friends who were turned away last spring for something on his criminal record that happened 15 years ago!

This is nothing new - Canada is just now starting to put the hammer down.

Have to agree with Ephraim, this works both ways. Any Canadian with a criminal record has not been allowed to enter the US for as long as I can remember.

 

I had friends who were turned away last spring for something on his criminal record that happened 15 years ago!

 

This is nothing new - Canada is just now starting to put the hammer down.

Actually, it's all related the US' fight against terrorism. The US wanted full access to Canadian records and in turn had to give Canada full access to US records. If there is anyone to blame for this, it's squarely on the current US administration.

I just noticed that LauraS just posted an annoucement on page 1 above where the "sticky's are.

marilyn

I know people who had problems with this BEFORE 9-11. This is not a new issue.

Is there a way of knowing ahead of time if something minor is going to prevent you from entereing Canada. We are planning on taking a train from Seattle to Vancover for our cruise. Will Amtrac know when we board the train if there will be a problem? Husband did some very minor things when a young adult that has me worried. Is there someone I can call in Canada ahead of time?

I know people who had problems with this BEFORE 9-11. This is not a new issue.

No, but the access to information databases is much more pervasive now that they have access to the complete database from Homeland Security. The same is true for many other countries.... the same problems will soon crop up in Europe as well.

Is there a way of knowing ahead of time if something minor is going to prevent you from entereing Canada. We are planning on taking a train from Seattle to Vancover for our cruise. Will Amtrac know when we board the train if there will be a problem? Husband did some very minor things when a young adult that has me worried. Is there someone I can call in Canada ahead of time?

I don't know... can you get a copy of your record from Homeland Security? Do you have such rights in the US?

Like all data bases, there are errors, mis-identification with another with a similar name with lots of infractions etc. If you are refused admission to Canada and then find that there was a database error and you were legally admissible afterall - you are still out of luck financially and emotionally. The sure cure - don't travel to or thru Canada. Eventually they will design a system that will allow you to precheck your admissibility if enough people just don't go to or thru Canada and their tourism suffers.

This has gone to the extreme in our country and others as well. Perhaps the travel insurance industry will develop a way to precheck your qualifications and then insure you and your trip?? The clout to make things happen lies in the economic impact the travelling public have as a group. Its time we started using our clout.

Like all data bases, there are errors, mis-identification with another with a similar name with lots of infractions etc. If you are refused admission to Canada and then find that there was a database error and you were legally admissible afterall - you are still out of luck financially and emotionally. The sure cure - don't travel to or thru Canada. Eventually they will design a system that will allow you to precheck your admissibility if enough people just don't go to or thru Canada and their tourism suffers.

This has gone to the extreme in our country and others as well. Perhaps the travel insurance industry will develop a way to precheck your qualifications and then insure you and your trip?? The clout to make things happen lies in the economic impact the travelling public have as a group. Its time we started using our clout.

So, are you suggesting that Canadians do the same? Since the US laws are exactly the same and in this case, the data for the exclusion is actually coming from US Homeland Security?

Sure, its all about economic clout not a specific discrimination of a country and all I am saying is that we (in every country) have an advance right to know if we are admissible before plunking down hard earned dollars that would not be refundable in case we were refused entry. We should be able to go online somewhere and have the same access to the records that every immigration office has access to. What's wrong with that logic? Why should it be the touring public's problem to find out later that someone thinks we are inadmissible after we have purchased tickets??

I would think the cruiseline industry would be jumping on this problem and doing something about it. Travel is now world wide and people are shelling out lots of hard earned dollars for longer vacations. Why not be able to know in each of your itineraries that you will be admissible in advance rather than having your trip ruined.

It's not hard to figure out if YOUR Record is one that will cause the folks at either country's Port of entry to ask "The Question" "Do you have a criminal record?" Check the web sites given above and see. You know what you were convicted for...right?

A lot of the time the problem stems from giving the Wrong Answer to "The Question". Cause then you are a liar and why would they trust you. (either side) They are just doing their job and I don't want nice people at the borders just reasonable ones doing their job.

Although I have mixed opinions about the world's longest undefended border and the monies being spent at border crossings where its mostly just honest folks anyways they catch a lot of stupid people doing stupid & oft times illegal things.

I believe that we should be looking at more of a North America model to Security.

Would be for the US government to allow non-US registered ships to sail only US ports without having to make a stop in a foreign port! The ruling has been eliminated by special agreement with NCL America in Hawai'i so their ships don't have to go to Fanning Island in the Republic of Kiribati. It is an old law that given today's world view should be revoked. That way we could sail from a US port without an issue!

So what happens if you sail out of Seattle and your ship stops in Vancover or Victoria.? If you are allowed off the ship does it mean you clear their customs? Or if you cannot do you have to stay on ship? Do they do a record check on every one that crosses the border?

A former employer had me arrested for "destruction of intellectual property" after I left their employ and my laptop was suddenly "missing" information. Turned out to be another employee that did the destruction and the charges were dropped. I'm assuming because I wasn't convicted of anything that I should be ok, any one else read it that way?

thanks!

I travel in upstate NY fairly often and cross the border at least 5 or 6 times a year. I've never been asked if I have a record. Most often they officers on both sides don't even look at my passport.

A former employer had me arrested for "destruction of intellectual property" after I left their employ and my laptop was suddenly "missing" information. Turned out to be another employee that did the destruction and the charges were dropped. I'm assuming because I wasn't convicted of anything that I should be ok, any one else read it that way?

 

thanks!

You have no criminal record.

If you were fingerprinted you have a number. (still) So on tv like CIS or NCIS when they say checking NCIC..... you be there kruisecat you be there.. :cool:

Sure, its all about economic clout not a specific discrimination of a country and all I am saying is that we (in every country) have an advance right to know if we are admissible before plunking down hard earned dollars that would not be refundable in case we were refused entry. We should be able to go online somewhere and have the same access to the records that every immigration office has access to. What's wrong with that logic? Why should it be the touring public's problem to find out later that someone thinks we are inadmissible after we have purchased tickets??

I would think the cruiseline industry would be jumping on this problem and doing something about it. Travel is now world wide and people are shelling out lots of hard earned dollars for longer vacations. Why not be able to know in each of your itineraries that you will be admissible in advance rather than having your trip ruined.

It's called the right to privacy and the expectation of privacy. You can go to your local police and ask them to do a check for you. They will check that you are who you say you are and check it for you. Or you can ask the FBI to do it for $18, but again, you will have to prove who you are. They reply with a letter indicating if you have a record or your record is clean. From what I read on the US government's website, you can get that certified for an extra $5.

I don't think I would want every Tom, Dick and Harry to have access to all the information about me. I have a clear record, but still, we do expect that our personal information will be guarded by the government.

Ephrain wrote: "It's called the right to privacy and the expectation of privacy. You can go to your local police and ask them to do a check for you. They will check that you are who you say you are and check it for you. Or you can ask the FBI to do it for $18, but again, you will have to prove who you are. They reply with a letter indicating if you have a record or your record is clean. From what I read on the US government's website, you can get that certified for an extra $5.

I don't think I would want every Tom, Dick and Harry to have access to all the information about me. I have a clear record, but still, we do expect that our personal information will be guarded by the government."

It is not about giving everyone access to your personal data - its about YOU having information from the government you are going to visit, if they are going to admit you before you buy tickets to enter or sail from their country. You may have a record here that is old and they might be OK with it - or they might not be OK with it. It is usually a personal interpretation by the officer that confronts you in the foreign country you are visiting. Getting some sort of advance clearance is what I am talking about. Why have to sit and worry? Most of us are just bringing tourism dollars to the foreign government we are visiting and have spent considerable money to get there. The fact that as a young adult we were caught with less than an ounce of pot, or had a wreckless driving ticket or whatever the minor infraction might have been is usually not indicative of us as mature travelling citizens - but other countries might interpret it differently (maybe even each time we try to visit). It would just be nice to email a country we want to visit and get advance clearance that it is OK to buy cruise tickets and that they would welcome us and our money.....either direction, any country - I am NOT being anti Canadian. I just hate seeing otherwise good people loosing money by a country not admitting them after an investment has been made to go there - there should be a way for the travelling public to get clearance credentials (even for a fee) to the country they want to travel to or thru before buying airline or cruiseline tickets that would not be refundable nor insured.

Both Canada and the US have programs for exactly that.

For Canadians to visit the USA and are inadmissible because of a criminal record, you pay USD$265 and fill in an Application for Advance Permission to Enter as a Non-Immigrant and you may be required to pay an extra USD$70 for biometrics.

The Canadian program is CAD$200 (and extra CAD$800 if a Minister is required to intervene) and instead of simply giving you a visa to visit Canada, deems you as rehabilitated and you can enter Canada from that period forward. It is called being Deemed Rehabilitated. The CIC (Citizenship and Immigration Canada) website says:

You are not required to submit an application to be deemed rehabilitated. However, before arriving at a port of entry, we strongly advise you to contact a Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate outside Canada to see if you qualify.

Every country on earth has the right to refuse you entry without even giving you a reason. Do I think it's fair? No. Can I do something about it? Nope. I'm not standing up for the system in either case. What I'm saying is that this goes both ways. And in future, it will go further afield. While most of the Caribbean doesn't appear to be a problem at the moment, Western Europe is gaining access to the exact same information and it's time to take responsibility and do something about it.

I know it's not fair. Many people have worked hard to overcome their youthful indiscretions. But most Western countries have this as law and are gaining the information from Homeland Security. It's obviously gotten to the point where they need to apply for their pardon and get their record cleared. It's just part of the new reality. And blaming Canada for it, just isn't right. The laws are the same in both countries and the problem is the same in both countries.

Well wow, I am surprised that some of you Americans seem so unaware of laws and rules that have always been in place. .. They are not new.

My friend ( Canadain like me) had a DUI in 1990. When we travelled to Hawaii with her, her hubby and kids in 1997 she had to get some sort of "pardon" to cross into YOUR country. She just bucked up the dough and did it, if you can afford to vacation across the border , you can afford to get your pardon or what ever it is they call it.

If you have a minor crimminal record get it cleaned up, you can , so do it.

Lets try and remember that rules have to be applied to everyone, and no one is "special".. so even though your pot conviction( for example) may not seem like a big deal to you, it still makes you a convicted drug user .. I personally have no problem with people with minor convictions being admitted, and yes, when we are young there are many ways to get little Xs on us, so , don't fret about it now, just clean it up!

Funny, the US apparently has a problem letting people with living with HIV into their country, even to visit, I think that IS shocking .,

I would also like to point out some major things that I don't think have been addressed:

1. This apparent turing back of people is on the rise is one persons interpretation and it is unfair to say that his opinion alone rings through for truth that the numbers will increase (those who are being turned back). There is no real way to know this either way.

2. This article about Canadian procedures is from an AMERICAN perspective. So...just as I'm sure Americans know how Canadian newspapers may not have the same spin or information happening, the same is here as well I'm sure. Just remember, if you want the facts, do your research and don't just rely on this one article.

3. I don't know if it's just a personal bias but I took the article to be saying that pot is okay, and geesh, why wouldn't we let a person with a DUI record into the country?! No offence, but a crime is a crime, and I don't think it's unreasonable to keep someone from entering who has a difficulty from restraining him or herself from living within the law (regardless of what decade it happened in).

Anyways, just my 2 cents. :rolleyes:

Well wow, I am surprised that some of you Americans seem so unaware of laws and rules that have always been in place. .. They are not new.

 

My friend ( Canadain like me) had a DUI in 1990. When we travelled to Hawaii with her, her hubby and kids in 1997 she had to get some sort of "pardon" to cross into YOUR country. She just bucked up the dough and did it, if you can afford to vacation across the border , you can afford to get your pardon or what ever it is they call it.

 

If you have a minor crimminal record get it cleaned up, you can , so do it.

 

Lets try and remember that rules have to be applied to everyone, and no one is "special".. so even though your pot conviction( for example) may not seem like a big deal to you, it still makes you a convicted drug user .. I personally have no problem with people with minor convictions being admitted, and yes, when we are young there are many ways to get little Xs on us, so , don't fret about it now, just clean it up!

 

Funny, the US apparently has a problem letting people with living with HIV into their country, even to visit, I think that IS shocking .,

I have no problem with either country doing this, the problem I have is that unless you stumble upon the information you could be in a real jam when trying to enter the country for your vacation. Obviously this law is not widely known (at least not in the US) and I think it behooves the cruiselines to at a minimum add a blurb about it to all of it's cruise passengers leaving through Canada.

But I want to say again, I have no issue with Canada enforcing the law. It is your country and you have every right to make and enforce any law you want, I just think it would make sense to make sure tourists are aware of it :o

I have a minor infraction on my record. Because of it I made the decision to cancel my trip out of Vancouver and opted for one out of Seattle instead. I have every intention of having my record cleared. My problem was if I was not allowed into Canada I would be out around $4500. I choose not to take the chance. Alot of people think I'm being over cautious but I myself would not want to chance it. I myself can see why EITHER country would not allow convicted felons to cross the border but I think its STUPID that people with minor infractions are not allowed to cross EITHER border. Thats just my opinion. Maybe when it affects the tourism dollars for both countries the procedure will change.:confused: