How as a result of the latest increase do you intend to tip on their next P&O Cruise?

The Stewards and Waiters are all on the same rising scale of ‘basic’ wage that the back room staff are on, and they all rely on their share of the DSC pot to make it up to a level of living wage which is acceptable to them as individuals. They sign up for the ‘basic’ wage, but also have the expectation and hope that the passengers will recognise their hard work and keep the DSC intact.

Those positions onboard (cabin & dining staff) that provide a direct opportunity for them to earn extra ‘cash tips’ are coveted.

 

Instead of cruise lines being asked to include gratuities in the up front cost of a cruise (which I agree will give them the opportunity to hike up the prices), I would rather they identify their level of service charge, but make it a compulsory payment. That would at least eliminate the regrettable feeling that a lot of us are subsidising those who currently remove the charge. My vote will always be towards a level playing field, and therefore any future cruises I take will be on lines that either include gratuities, or make it mandatory to pay them.

This is a very valid and agreeable post.

Compulsory service charge at a lower £ amount because everyone would be paying it or for PR including it in the cruise price would be the fairest way.

Additional cash tips not expected unless passengers want to give them.

I agree, as at one time virtually all cruisers paid grats. Now the clientele is changing and not everyone does. I always have paid, and tipped some cash additionally if I feel the service has been excellent, but increasingly I feel I'm subsidising the non payers as P and O keep increasing the amount to cover them.

I agree, as at one time virtually all cruisers paid grats. Now the clientele is changing and not everyone does. I always have paid, and tipped some cash additionally if I feel the service has been excellent, but increasingly I feel I'm subsidising the non payers as P and O keep increasing the amount to cover them.

I feel exactly the same way.

Suggested tips on our first P&O cruise was £3.10. in 2003.

Its only the last couple of years since Freedom dining where the % amount has increased dramatically and a lot is because people don't pay autogratuities.

The Stewards and Waiters are all on the same rising scale of ‘basic’ wage that the back room staff are on, and they all rely on their share of the DSC pot to make it up to a level of living wage which is acceptable to them as individuals.

The backroom staff don't get a share of the service charge so it is not believable they are on exactly the same low wage as the waiters and stewards who recieve bonuses from the substantial amounts paid into the service charge pot.

Instead of cruise lines being asked to include gratuities in the up front cost of a cruise (which I agree will give them the opportunity to hike up the prices), I would rather they identify their level of service charge, but make it a compulsory payment.

You cannot have a compulsory charge advertised with less prominence than the fare. Which means the cruise companies would have no option but to include it in the fare (what benefit would there be otherwise anyway).

You cannot have a compulsory charge advertised with less prominence than the fare. Which means the cruise companies would have no option but to include it in the fare (what benefit would there be otherwise anyway).

When I lived in Canada and booked cruises, there would be a charge for the cruise fare and then there was an extra charge for taxes and port fees added on top (ie. not included in the cruise fare). As its not legal to do that in the UK, they have to include those taxes and port fees in the fare. Wonder why then they can't just add the service charge then the same way in which the port fees are

 

Wonder why then they can't just add the service charge then the same way in which the port fees are

Because they make money hiding the 'optional' charge.

Advertise a cruise for £699 and then guilt the customer to pay an extra £70 on top.

The backroom staff don't get a share of the service charge so it is not believable they are on exactly the same low wage as the waiters and stewards who recieve bonuses from the substantial amounts paid into the service charge pot.

 

 

 

You cannot have a compulsory charge advertised with less prominence than the fare. Which means the cruise companies would have no option but to include it in the fare (what benefit would there be otherwise anyway).

Back room staff was probably the wrong description. I should have said kitchen staff, cabin assistants - the ones that you don’t see who make it possible for the ones you do see to do their jobs. They most certainly DO receive part of the DSC.

As for a compulsory charge, the biggest benefit to many of us who pay the DSC would be not subsidising the growing number who don’t, and hopefully helping to keep the costs down in the future. There are many restaurants in the UK who put a compulsory service charge on your bill nowadays. People have the option of choice - accept it or go elsewhere.

I've never spoken to any member of staff who receives $2000 a month !!!!

 

And what about the 3 months training they have to fund themselves before they can even attempt to get a job on the ships. And then there is the multi hundred $ fee they have to pay to an Agency - just to get on their books and finally try to get a job.

With their cut of the tipping pool they do.:pYes I know how hard it is to get a job on the ships, staff tell me, long lines outside the agencies in places like Mumbai and Manilla. So if the cruise lines paid the staff award wages, i.e. in OZ minimum wage is $20 an hour and what is it in UK 10 quid an hour? Then the cruise fares would have to triple, because no way Carnival Corporation is going to pay their staff all their wages from the Carnival coffers, it is 'user pay - auto tips/service charges.'

Many people forget that P&O UK is owned by an American corporation, Carnival, they call the shots and do the bean counting.

Back room staff was probably the wrong description. I should have said kitchen staff, cabin assistants - the ones that you don’t see who make it possible for the ones you do see to do their jobs. They most certainly DO receive part of the DSC.

Not according to P&O. The service charge "helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler". Are P&O misleading their customers as kitchen staff and cabin assistants are not included in that statement.

As for a compulsory charge, the biggest benefit to many of us who pay the DSC would be not subsidising the growing number who don’t, and hopefully helping to keep the costs down in the future. There are many restaurants in the UK who put a compulsory service charge on your bill nowadays. People have the option of choice - accept it or go elsewhere.

The issue is advertising a compulsory service charge when you are selling the product online. You have to advertise it with the same prominence as the fare and really there is no way of doing that without including it in the fare, as this BBC news story today shows -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43418774

I have never seen a compulsory service charge in a restaurant in the UK, perhaps you could give examples of the "many restaurants" where this happens.

Back room staff was probably the wrong description. I should have said kitchen staff, cabin assistants - the ones that you don’t see who make it possible for the ones you do see to do their jobs. They most certainly DO receive part of the DSC.

 

As for a compulsory charge, the biggest benefit to many of us who pay the DSC would be not subsidising the growing number who don’t, and hopefully helping to keep the costs down in the future. There are many restaurants in the UK who put a compulsory service charge on your bill nowadays. People have the option of choice - accept it or go elsewhere.

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As already posted, why are you "certain" that kitchen staff get a share of the tip pool, when P&O clearly state that they do not ?

 

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Going back before auto tipping. There was an unofficial system of tipping down the chain. The waiters/cabin stewards would use some of their tips to tip those who helped them do their work. So backroom and kitchen staff were included in the tips.

I have no idea if this still happens but I cannot see why it would not happen.

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After our most recent cruise , and discussions with various crew members, I now get the distinct impression that the stewards and waiters are on a fixed rate contract that includes the "tip" element, and that their rate is commensurate with US lines regardless of the disparity in the "auto tip" amount, this does seem most likely otherwise P&O would struggle to keep staff, which clearly they don't. The staff are also aware of the increase in the auto tip and expect that their wages will increase in line,

If this is indeed correct then I see no point whatsoever in paying the auto tip, although I would still consider any extra if I feel I have received excellent service. It would also account for P&O's reluctance to explain their auto tip reward scheme with more clarity, since all we are doing by paying the auto tip is reducing the likelihood of P&O, and other lines, including tips in the headline price.

This is a complete about face for me, but as long as fluid pricing continues I see no reason for me to add to P&O's profit by paying the auto tip.

Going back before auto tipping. There was an unofficial system of tipping down the chain. The waiters/cabin stewards would use some of their tips to tip those who helped them do their work. So backroom and kitchen staff were included in the tips.

 

I have no idea if this still happens but I cannot see why it would not happen.

 

 

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Why would a waiter share his tip with a kitchen porter? Makes no sense.

 

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The staff in the kitchen can make life easier for the waiters. Or harder.

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Why would a waiter share his tip with a kitchen porter? Makes no sense.

 

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It used to be the case for cabin stewards that they had too much work to do, so out of their own pocket they would pay a junior colleague to assist them in their off time. If they didn't the passenger wouldn't be happy and as this was before service charges the customer wouldn't leave a cash tip.

Now the expectations of what the cabin steward will deliver (their work for my cabin takes at most 15 to 20 minutes a day) and the steward will receive the full share of the service charge provided you tick 'excellent' on the happy sheet, I cannot see why a steward (or waiter) would have any need to give their pay away.

After our most recent cruise , and discussions with various crew members, I now get the distinct impression that the stewards and waiters are on a fixed rate contract that includes the "tip" element, and that their rate is commensurate with US lines regardless of the disparity in the "auto tip" amount, this does seem most likely otherwise P&O would struggle to keep staff, which clearly they don't. The staff are also aware of the increase in the auto tip and expect that their wages will increase in line,

If this is indeed correct then I see no point whatsoever in paying the auto tip, although I would still consider any extra if I feel I have received excellent service. It would also account for P&O's reluctance to explain their auto tip reward scheme with more clarity, since all we are doing by paying the auto tip is reducing the likelihood of P&O, and other lines, including tips in the headline price.

This is a complete about face for me, but as long as fluid pricing continues I see no reason for me to add to P&O's profit by paying the auto tip.

Very interesting post.

Why would a waiter share his tip with a kitchen porter? Makes no sense.

 

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If the kitchen porter goes above and beyond to help the waiter why shouldn't the waiter tip him just like we tip people who give us excellent service.

If the kitchen porter goes above and beyond to help the waiter why shouldn't the waiter tip him just like we tip people who give us excellent service.

OK, but officially kitchen staff do not get a share of the tip pool. If waiters want to tip someone, fine, but that is their business.

OK, but officially kitchen staff do not get a share of the tip pool. If waiters want to tip someone, fine, but that is their business.

Exactly,thats how the food chain works.

OK, but officially kitchen staff do not get a share of the tip pool. If waiters want to tip someone, fine, but that is their business.

Correct.

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If the kitchen porter goes above and beyond to help the waiter why shouldn't the waiter tip him just like we tip people who give us excellent service.

Because it doesn't matter to the waiter.

Because it doesn't matter to the waiter.

It does if things are not ready when he/she wants them. He cannot give the service which may generate more tips.

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It does if things are not ready when he/she wants them. He cannot give the service which may generate more tips.

 

 

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It does if things are not ready when he/she wants them. He cannot give the service which may generate more tips.

 

 

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The only trouble with that is it makes no sense.

In Club everything is regimented to deliver the food at set points as everyone is having the same course at more or less the same time. So the kitchen will be under pressure and a kitchen hand doing a poor job is going to be in hot water with their bosses, particularly if they are taking cash to favour one waiter over another.

In Freedom where it could help the waiters as the kitchen needs to work to deliver any item from any course on the menu at the same time, however I strongly doubt cash tips feature frequently in Freedom so no incentive for the waiters.

Well, currently aboard Azura and, in view of all the information I’ve received from P&O, and comments here, I’ve been to reception and filled in the form to remove auto-gratuities.

There is a box on the form for comments. The ideal place to express ones view - make it compulsory, and clear during the booking process, or include it in the fare.

I’m still in correspondence with P&O - their obfuscation skills are near those of politicians. However, I am confident that, for the present at least, the crew who’ve served me won’t be financially disadvantaged, in fact our cabin steward, who will get a cash tip, will be better off. It still feels a crazy system