Norovirus outbreak on the Ryndam

From everything I have read, these hand sanitizers will not prevent the spread. Only good old hand washing. And I am one of those people who does not always accept the sanitizers. If I have thoroughly washed my hands in my cabin just before going into the MDR, I see no need to use a useless sanitizer. So please don't accuse everyone who does not use a sanitizer as being responsible for spreading noro.

As the CDC recommends the use of alcohol-based sanitizers, but never as a replacement for proper hand washing, I'm not sure that I describe them as useless.

We too wash our hands thoroughly before heading off to eat, but always accept the sanitizer. First, because it can't do any harm (possibly not the case for some), and secondly, and more importantly, it's difficult to exit your bathroom and then your cabin and make your way to the MDR without touching a surface somewhere along the way.

That being said, I usually carry a pocket-sized sanitizer and will have just used it. So if I skip the proferred ship's sanitizer, please don't call me out!

I'm on the way to the Ryndam too, HAL sent an email saying to reprint boarding docs, but only thing different is ship boards two hours later.

Anyone know how many were sick?

Yes, it would be helpful to know how many passengers have been six.

For those of you boarding Saturday, I hope you'll keep us updated. I, for one, am boarding the Ryndam for 21 days in August. Here's hoping your cruise coming up now is healthy and wonderful!!

OMG, we fly from Canada tomorrow to board the Ryndam for our "once in a life time" 14 day cruise. Now what?

Rmurph, we leave tomorrow as well. We are just going to have to be vigilant and hope for the best. If they indeed, offer the option of cancelling at the pier, (and I really doubt that that will happen.), we may do that and find a plan B, or we may just hope for the best and enjoy this wonderful cruise. HAL told my TA that no refunds will be given "at this time". That was at 10 AM this morning.

Bring extra hand sanitizer to carry and avoid touching any surfaces that others touch and avoid touching your face after touching a potentially contaminated surface. I am bringing Clorox wipes in a flat case to wipe down my cabin. I am hoping a sick individual did not occupy my cabin on the current leg. We prefer eating all meals in the MDR and avoid buffets. Use your own bathroom and use a paper towel to open doors and your arms to open swinging doors. Soap and water is always best, as pointed out, but hand sanitizer is certainly better than nothing!

I am going to go finish packing now and hope for the best!

Been on a cruise with noro outbreak for 8 of 14 days. they left bottles of Purell in cabin with notes about hand-washing etc. - so they provide it for you. Suggest using your own bathroom whenever possible - the extra steps back to your room are worth it. Avoid the buffet - use room service for breakfast. And don't drop your vigilance when you go ashore -be just as careful about where you eat, use the facilities, not touching your face, etc.

Side note - what always amazes me when watching people eat - how many people lick their fingers. My mother was very strict about that being bad manners and made us always use napkins to wipe our hands. It is ingrained in my DNA to this day!

I also am sorry for those who have been sick and especially for the crew members who continue working when they too are ill.

Where are people getting the idea that crew work when sick with Noro.

My distinct impression is that there are VERY strict crew quarantine rules especially when Noro is concerned.

Been on a cruise with noro outbreak for 8 of 14 days. they left bottles of Purell in cabin with notes about hand-washing etc. - so they provide it for you. Suggest using your own bathroom whenever possible - the extra steps back to your room are worth it. Avoid the buffet - use room service for breakfast. And don't drop your vigilance when you go ashore -be just as careful about where you eat, use the facilities, not touching your face, etc.

 

Side note - what always amazes me when watching people eat - how many people lick their fingers. My mother was very strict about that being bad manners and made us always use napkins to wipe our hands. It is ingrained in my DNA to this day!

I have to say that everyone stresses not touching your face, but no one ever mentions eating food with your hands. This post comes close, referring to licking fingers, but even holding a burger or fries with contaminated fingers will cause a more probable infection than just touching your face.

I would think carrying some of those hand wipes in packets would be better than a "squirt" ... because you'd get some rubbing action along with the sanitizer.

Many cruise lines will have the sanitizer stations and crew at the dining venues, but will not make it mandatory to use it, as many cruisers know that it is virtually ineffective against noro. The only real way that hand sanitizers will help with noro is if you wipe your hands on a paper towel after "scrubbing" with the sanitizer, to remove the virus that has been loosened by the emollients in the sanitizer, much as soap does.

I'm afraid that's not true. From the CDC, alcohol based hand sanitizers (non-alcohol or those with too low a level of alcohol are pretty much useless) must be left on until it has dried over the entire hand.

Hand sanitizer is less effective than washing with soap and water with respect to norovirus, but it is better than nothing. Thumbs up on challenging those who don't wash after using the restroom. I'll be outfitting my family with travel packets of tissues to use to touch things like bathroom door handles, elevator buttons, etc.

Where are people getting the idea that crew work when sick with Noro.

 

My distinct impression is that there are VERY strict crew quarantine rules especially when Noro is concerned.

You are 100% correct! Crew do not/are not allowed to, work/keep working when displaying symptoms of Noro. As a matter of fact, it is a fireable offense if they do not report those symptoms to Medical/get evaluated by them (medical), but instead keep working. This is stressed to them in every 'newly joined crew' meeting on the 1st sea day after departure

Crew displaying Noro-like symptoms will be isolated for 48 hrs by the Crew Doctor in either their cabin (with their cabin mate) or inside an isolation ward in the ship's infirmary

Someone on our roll call posted this very interesting document from the British Government on managing norovirus on cruise ships. Every passenger should read this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/362998/2007_guideline_norovirus_cruiseships.pdf

I'm afraid that's not true. From the CDC, alcohol based hand sanitizers (non-alcohol or those with too low a level of alcohol are pretty much useless) must be left on until it has dried over the entire hand.

 

Hand sanitizer is less effective than washing with soap and water with respect to norovirus, but it is better than nothing. Thumbs up on challenging those who don't wash after using the restroom. I'll be outfitting my family with travel packets of tissues to use to touch things like bathroom door handles, elevator buttons, etc.

Allowing hand sanitizer to dry on the hands allows the proper contact time for the alcohol to neutralize bacteria and enveloped viruses. Since these sanitizers are shown to be relatively ineffective against non-enveloped viruses like noro, it is better to use the lubrication properties to loosen the virus from the skin and remove it to another surface like the paper towel. This is what soap does, it does not kill noro or any bacteria or virus, it simply breaks the surface tension between the virus and the skin and allows the water to rinse the virus away.

And use the paper towel to open the door! Don't touch the handle, or the door itself, with your freshly washed hands.

How often do you see someone wash their hands, then touch the door? Lots. :rolleyes:

If EVERYbody would wash their hands THOROUGHLY, that would not be a problem... :mad:

Allowing hand sanitizer to dry on the hands allows the proper contact time for the alcohol to neutralize bacteria and enveloped viruses. Since these sanitizers are shown to be relatively ineffective against non-enveloped viruses like noro, it is better to use the lubrication properties to loosen the virus from the skin and remove it to another surface like the paper towel. This is what soap does, it does not kill noro or any bacteria or virus, it simply breaks the surface tension between the virus and the skin and allows the water to rinse the virus away.

I had no idea! That's great information!

If EVERYbody would wash their hands THOROUGHLY, that would not be a problem... :mad:

That's a given. However, since we all know that not everyone washes their hands, and some who do wash don't do it properly, then grabbing a barrier between your own hands and the door is just prudent.

When washing, pretend you're a doctor or nurse. Wash as long, and thoroughly, as they would.

My daughter used to sing happy birthday while she soaped her hands (daycare taught her that trick) and my nephew was taught to do the alphabet. That was just the soaping part and it helped keep flus and colds contained. Coughing and sneezing into the crook of the elbow too. But I sense this crowd really doesn't need those kid tricks to keep safer from infection!

That's a given. However, since we all know that not everyone washes their hands, and some who do wash don't do it properly, then grabbing a barrier between your own hands and the door is just prudent.

 

When washing, pretend you're a doctor or nurse. Wash as long, and thoroughly, as they would.

Ruth is absolutely right. A barrier, not touching your mouth, when eating or not, and 20 second of handwashing with soap and water is best. Many do it correctly, others just rinse their hands and walk away.

Someone on our roll call posted this very interesting document from the British Government on managing norovirus on cruise ships. Every passenger should read this.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/362998/2007_guideline_norovirus_cruiseships.pdf

Very informative, thank you for posting!

Seems like "Manorapid synergy" is the thing to order :D

I have Newgenn in my cupboard as I have cats and work at a vets so that will be going with me now.

Disney has friendly crew members stationed at the entrance to all the dining rooms with disinfecting wipes. There are trash bins a few steps further inside. They put a wipe into your hands quite proactively, which seemed to work most of the time. Almost everyone would wipe off their hands and then throw the wipe away. As has been discussed, this should be more effective than just using sanitizer, since a lot of whatever is on your hands ends up in the trash.

I really don't understand why every cruise line doesn't adopt this strategy, at least at the lido and other self-serve venues. It seems very practical to me.

If they wanted to fancy it up, they could have the staff give you a warm towel (with sanitizer, fragrance, etc) and have hampers to throw them in for laundering.

Oh boy! Mrs Banjo & I leave for the Ryndam tomorrow. I hope they get this under control, or offer us a full refund before we board. If we get that offer we will take it and spend two weeks on an unplanned IT in the British Isles.

I was always a little leary of the concept of antibacterial gel......I like hand washing or hand wipes that then are thrown away. Stair banisters are nasty and hanging on to walls are not good either.....keep your hands to yourself. Hands are a portal to viruses!

You are 100% correct! Crew do not/are not allowed to, work/keep working when displaying symptoms of Noro. As a matter of fact, it is a fireable offense if they do not report those symptoms to Medical/get evaluated by them (medical), but instead keep working. This is stressed to them in every 'newly joined crew' meeting on the 1st sea day after departure

 

Crew displaying Noro-like symptoms will be isolated for 48 hrs by the Crew Doctor in either their cabin (with their cabin mate) or inside an isolation ward in the ship's infirmary

I just love the fact that the cruise ships keep us all safe by isolating for 48 hours (passengers and crew) when a person with noro is contagious for up to two weeks after symptoms subside. I makes us all feel so warm and fuzzy just like a squirt of alcohol on our hands.

I just love the fact that the cruise ships keep us all safe by isolating for 48 hours (passengers and crew) when a person with noro is contagious for up to two weeks after symptoms subside. I makes us all feel so warm and fuzzy just like a squirt of alcohol on our hands.

Could you provide the source of this information?

Could you provide the source of this information?

Try Goggling it. You will find lots of nice information like it lives on counter tops for weeks. In refrigerated food for months, in frozen food even longer and they gave up testing in-ground water after like 6 months because it was still there. Or how about the fact that it mutates so often that even if you have already had it this year you can probably get it again. The second most common disease that you can get right after the common cold. And as others here have said, it's not encapsulated so the alcohol preparations are not very effective. Try reading the label for your Clorox wipes. See if Noro is listed there. I still use them when I board a ship (gotta try something). And of course, no vaccine. Nice little bug huh?