Woolloomooloo hullabaloo: Locals don't want cruise liners at Garden Island

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#1
388 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
A POTTS Point heritage campaigner says Woolloomooloo and surrounding areas would not be able to cope if cruise liners were to dock at Garden Island naval base.
Andrew Woodhouse said he was disappointed that Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore expressed support for cruise liners to use the Garden Island base in a mayoral minute in August.
Mr Woodhouse said liners could bring up to 6000 disembarking passengers a day, which he said could lead to traffic gridlock. “Potts Point just isn’t big enough for what they’ve got in mind,” he said.
A Department of Defence spokesman said the Navy’s presence on Garden Island would continue into the foreseeable future, with six more ships expected to join the nine ships docked at the base by 2014.
“Planning is well advanced to develop the infrastructure required on Garden Island ... to support these new classes of warship,” the spokesman said.
“Defence has no plans to relocate the base.”
He said that the independent Garden Island review conducted by Dr Allan Hawke would “assess whether there is scope for a more flexible approach that balances the Navy’s needs with cruise industry requirements to secure advanced berth bookings.”
In her minute, Cr Moore said: “I also support the sharing of deepwater berths between naval and commercial shipping, when appropriate, and if the impacts on the densely populated surrounding area can be managed to protect residential amenity.”



http://wentworth-courier.whereilive....nd-says-local/



#2
Sydney, Australia
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Unfortunately, one person does not represent a suburb. However, there are a number of people who are vocal enough in that area - Potts Point in particular - to proclaim that they do.

I like the sound of where Defence are going with this. As for the person this article was based on, here appears to make a lot of noise sending off press releases, but that doesn't mean his viewpoint has any great weight or representation than anyone else's.
#3
SE Queensland, Australia
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I have to agree with the resident - there is no room left at the Inn as regards Garden Island. Have a look at the one and only through road that leads to GI. In one direction it comes down the hill right through the heart of Kings Cross and in the other direction from the VERY busy Cowper Wharf roadway.

Barry
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#4
Central Coast NSW
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At least they are still talking about what to do I guess thats a plus.
They would need to do something about traffic in the area if they were to have cruise ships berthed there.


Personally despite being a member of the "Navy Family" as they call us I think a naval base in the centre of Sydney is pretty ridiculous.
Why cant Jervis Bay be expanded? I live on the Central Coast how about a Naval Base in Newcastle... Anyway it seems all the action is to the north of Australia and the West..that is where we need more naval ships.

As for six new ships...I'll believe it when I see it. My boy is 3 years in the navy joined up to go on submarines (yes I thought he was crazy too ships are meant to float)..he might actually get on one before his hitch is up maybe....they have more ships out of service than in service at the moment.

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#5
SE Queensland, Australia
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Anyway, Voyager of the Seas will be berthing at OPT. I doubt that we will get any much larger than her visiting Sydney in the future. QM2 is a one-off that only comes every now and then.

Barry
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#6
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Originally posted by bazzaw
Anyway, Voyager of the Seas will be berthing at OPT. I doubt that we will get any much larger than her visiting Sydney in the future. QM2 is a one-off that only comes every now and then.

Barry
Carnival Spirit is too big to sail under the bridge so when she's based here permanently, she'll need to use the OPT. If it's in use, what do they do? They do need to find some sort of solution.
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#7
SE Queensland, Australia
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Good point about Carnival Spirit - but height wise, there isn't a great deal of difference between her and Pac Jewel ( Not that there is much to spare when Jewel goes under the bridge)

Has it been officially announced anywhere that Spirit is unable to go under?



Barry
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#8
Orewa , Auckland , N.Z.
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Wooloomooloo is not suitable...

Its too hard to spell.....

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#9
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I think the report is full of garbage. The navy has hosted international ships for many years that have put double the amount of people into the area than any cruise ship can. Look at the many occasions the US navy turned up with aircraft carriers (5,000+crew) and landing ships as well as its escorts. The days of the US aircraft carrier visits are over now for Sydney harbour.

Also QM2 can fit at Circular Quay - the only reason it doesnt is becasue it has never entered Sydney harbour alone and without another ship at Circular Quay.

There are issues with docking as many ships cannot fit under the harbour bridge. Carnival Spirity is allot larger than the P&O Australia ships and it cannot fit under the bridge - there is a massive amount of difference in size and air draft.

Also the cruise ship dockings east of the harbour bridge presents a problem when Circular Quay is booked. Many of the Garden Island docks are too small to berth cruise ships. The Cruiser wharf near the Captain Cook dry dock is way to small for any cruise ship that fits under the bridge, plus the main docks for Garden Island itself are not a straight line. The only area that they can dock is exactly where the QM2 ties up. This will present a problem for the Navy as when they get the Canberra class landing ships they will be too large to dock anywhere else. The navy relies on shore power when their ships are docked and it is inconvenient for them to berth side by side just for a cruise ship visit.

The other problem that exists is that there is nowhere in Sydney harbour that a cruise ship can dock east of the bridge other than Circular Quay or Garden Island. The people saying there will be traffic problems have not thought the issue through. Cruise ships can lower their pontoons and disembark by high capacity ferries on the harbour to avoid congestion.

There is only one alternative for cruise ships to dock east of the harbour bridge if the government is prepared to spend the cash. There is a wharf near Milsons Point that used to be the old submarine base HMAS Platypus. If the water is deep enough the wharf would need to be extended and could in theory dock large cruise ships. There is also a direct road leading straight to the harbour bridge. Of course this is also a residential area and could cause upset for the residents of the area.
#10
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Originally posted by bazzaw
Good point about Carnival Spirit - but height wise, there isn't a great deal of difference between her and Pac Jewel ( Not that there is much to spare when Jewel goes under the bridge)

Has it been officially announced anywhere that Spirit is unable to go under?



Barry
I think you will find that it will not fit under the bridge as also will not the Radiance & Celebrity Century ( I think even the Rhapsody would struggle to get under), so if they have to use the Overseas Passenger Terminal just think of the problems, considering it struggles to handle 2000 passengers now. Just watch the pax whinge then, not the cruise lines fault. The OPT is just too small. Get rid of some the restaurants and give the space back to what it was built for. Its name gives it away " The OVERSEAS PASSENGER Terminal "
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#12
SE Queensland, Australia
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Looks like some of these cruiselines may not have thought this all out completely.

But there is still some capacity left at OPT for NOV/Dec next year - but also some juggling being done between OPT and Athol Bouy.

Does anybody know where passengers are tendered to when a ship is on Athol Bouy??


Barry
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#13
Wollongong NSW
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There is always Wollongong.

That is if no one minds sailing past the steelworks on the way out.

Deidre.
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#14
Orewa , Auckland , N.Z.
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Originally posted by bazzaw
Looks like some of these cruiselines may not have thought this all out completely.
But there is still some capacity left at OPT for NOV/Dec next year - but also some juggling being done between OPT and Athol Bouy.
Does anybody know where passengers are tendered to when a ship is on Athol Bouy?? Barry
I am not sure where they will go this year Barry, but before Wharf 5 got underway, passengers reported to a marquee at Barangaroo and were taken to their ship at Athol Bouy by catamaran.
Perhaps they may use where we reported for QM2, by the Anzac Bridge.

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#15
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Sutho, they could tender people off to alleviate traffic...but what about the tonnes of stores etc. that must come on semi trailers?
Also the sailors that used to arrive on the aircraft carriers did not have ten suitcases each LOL.

I am just still kicking myself I did not buy a terrace in Potts Point when I could have bought one for a song...I would have been doing a lot more cruising if I had some foresight.
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#16
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Originally posted by rugbypopsie
Sutho, they could tender people off to alleviate traffic...but what about the tonnes of stores etc. that must come on semi trailers?
Also the sailors that used to arrive on the aircraft carriers did not have ten suitcases each LOL.

I am just still kicking myself I did not buy a terrace in Potts Point when I could have bought one for a song...I would have been doing a lot more cruising if I had some foresight.
That poses as the only problem. Though in QM2's favour it is not a major turnaround port with the majority of passengers already embarked.

From what I have read I do not believe the Navy wants cruise ships at their wharf either. The residents argument is a desperate attempt to keep cruise ships out and their arguments are not as valid as the reasons put forward by the Navy.

When you look at Sydney harbour there is nowhere a ship can dock east of the harbour bridge apart from Circular Quay. The shoreline is too curved and littered with residential areas.

Newcastle is out as it is a coal port and no large docking facilities exist. I assume Wollongogn is in much the same position.

I remember the times when ships had to anchor in the harbour. There were hints of corruption going on in the labor NSW government at the time because small ships that belonged to the likes of Crystal Cruises were taking up prestigious docks at Circular Quay (ships that could easily fit under the bridge) when large ships had to anchor in the harbour like Celebrity Millennium and Aurora whilst there were free berths around at Darling Harbour for the Crystal Ship which onviously splased out money to stay at Circular Quay!

The size of the docks at Garden Island are too small with only one wharf large enough for a ship the size of QM2. I think the only real alternative is rennovating the ex HMAS Platypus. Other side of the bridge than Milsons Point.
#17
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I recall reading somewhere recently(although cant remember where) that they intend to extend the OPT to accommodate larger vessels but I read it as only the wharf itself, not the actual building so the embarking /debarking problem would still remain.

Maybe they could pull down the Harbour Bridge and build a higher one
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#18
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Originally posted by gbenjo
..........Maybe they could pull down the Harbour Bridge and build a higher one
LOLOLOL. Or maybe they could convert it to a bascule bridge such as Tower Bridge in London.

Just imagine turnaround with a ship at Athol Buoy!!!

Hmmmmm! The grain wharf at Fisherman Islands doesn't seem such a compromise for Brisbane, after all!
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#19
Sydney, Australia
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Originally posted by Sutho
From what I have read I do not believe the Navy wants cruise ships at their wharf either. The residents argument is a desperate attempt to keep cruise ships out and their arguments are not as valid as the reasons put forward by the Navy.
Agreed - when you have to share a space it then causes complications when there are conflicts, whether it be naval exercises, open days, visits or anything else. Given it's currently naval space where they have control, and they just look at requests as needed, it's easier to manage than if they had to share the space.

Nothing much coming from the resident except a nimby style noise.
#20
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Though if things get bad enough the state can boot the container port out of Botany Bay, relocate it to Newcastle and Wollongong and set up one massive cruise terminal in Botany Bay.