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Concordia Salvage decision made: refloat and tow!


PelicanBill

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If its true it puts an end to the Cut up in situ posters! and supports those who said it would be moved as a Full ship .... :)

 

 

Very true indeed.....there was always that choice...I dont think anyone was totally sure what way it would go..myself included.

 

This article doesnt give any details......they may very well cut all the superstructure off and refloat the hull alone.

 

The only thing I am sure of is that the wreck is never going to be a cruise ship again.

 

Anyway time will tell!

 

AKK

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"The stricken cruise liner Costa Concordia is to be righted and refloated in what will be the biggest operation of its kind ever seen.

 

Baloney!

 

This was the biggest.

 

normandie_capsized_life.jpg

 

Concordia will be "easy" compared to Normandie.

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"The stricken cruise liner Costa Concordia is to be righted and refloated in what will be the biggest operation of its kind ever seen.

 

Baloney!

 

This was the biggest. (End of quote)

 

I really do not understant how the Normandie was the largest when her tonnage was 79,280 as against the Concordia of 114,500 tons.

 

What am I not understanding? Regards.

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"The stricken cruise liner Costa Concordia is to be righted and refloated in what will be the biggest operation of its kind ever seen.

 

Baloney!

 

This was the biggest.

 

normandie_capsized_life.jpg

 

Concordia will be "easy" compared to Normandie.

Lou, I'm not so sure. Concordia is 30,000 tons larger than Normandie and is in a more precarious position. There was no danger of Normandie sinking in the Hudson River. Having said that, they did cut off her superstructure during the refloating process and I wonder whether that will be the case with Concordia.
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I think the big difference is the environment concerns for the reefs and ocean life around the Concordia.

 

I am glad they protected the Hudson River from the Normandie also.... LOL. I grew up on the banks of the Hudson 100 miles upstream, where it is more pristine with PCBs.

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The capsize and subsequent destruction of the Normandie in New York harbor was a product of ineptitude from start to finish. The fire fighting efforts were led by low ranking Navy officers who had no experience. The salvage work was contracted to a marine construction company, not to a salvage operator as there were none in the U.S. at that time. A total fiasco.

 

As the Costa Concordia contract will be let to one or more of the world's great salvage firms, I expect much better results.

 

Doc

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The capsize and subsequent destruction of the Normandie in New York harbor was a product of ineptitude from start to finish. The fire fighting efforts were led by low ranking Navy officers who had no experience.
What was really sad was that Vladimir Yourkevich, one of Normandie's architects, tried to offer his help during the fire but was turned away. That man knew the ship from fore to aft.:(
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I think the big difference is the environment concerns for the reefs and ocean life around the Concordia.

 

I am glad they protected the Hudson River from the Normandie also.... LOL. I grew up on the banks of the Hudson 100 miles upstream, where it is more pristine with PCBs.

I'm a bit more than 100 miles up the river (Coxsackie) and sail the Hudson. Where were you from?:)
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"The stricken cruise liner Costa Concordia is to be righted and refloated in what will be the biggest operation of its kind ever seen.

 

Baloney!

 

This was the biggest.

 

normandie_capsized_life.jpg

 

Concordia will be "easy" compared to Normandie.

 

 

Totally agree!

 

 

Just FYI..........the Normandie in the photo was at the same berth as the Fantasy was went she was in NYC.

 

AKK

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Just FYI..........the Normandie in the photo was at the same berth as the Fantasy was went she was in NYC.

I've always thought about the Normandie when we've boarded the ship at Pier 88. There are some wonderful wartime photos of Normandie at Pier 88 (it was the French Line pier) and Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary at Pier 90 (the Cunard pier).
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I've always thought about the Normandie when we've boarded the ship at Pier 88. There are some wonderful wartime photos of Normandie at Pier 88 (it was the French Line pier) and Queen Elizabeth and Queen Mary at Pier 90 (the Cunard pier).

 

 

 

 

Those piers have held many many of the worlds liners.....alot of history......The United States, Maurtiania, France, Hamburg, etc etc.

 

It you down down the West Side drive, near the Holland tunnel the old Cunard/White star pier is in ruins now but still visible. The steel framework that was at the shoreline still has the Cunard and White Star names visible.

 

This pier had the older liners, lusitiania, Olymipic, etc...........

 

AKK

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"The stricken cruise liner Costa Concordia is to be righted and refloated in what will be the biggest operation of its kind ever seen.

 

Baloney!

 

This was the biggest. (End of quote)

 

I really do not understant how the Normandie was the largest when her tonnage was 79,280 as against the Concordia of 114,500 tons.

 

What am I not understanding? Regards.

 

"Biggest" as in most time consuming and involved, especially considering where she capsized. It took over a year to do it. The entire superstructure had to be cut off. I doubt they'll be doing that with Concordia.

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"Biggest" as in most time consuming and involved, especially considering where she capsized. It took over a year to do it. The entire superstructure had to be cut off. I doubt they'll be doing that with Concordia.

 

 

Lou...I would think the only way they can right the wrecked Condordia is to lighten her brofre they try and pull her upright and that removal of the superstructure is the way to go?????

\

 

Seal the hull..........cut off the super structure..........pull her over enough to get the STBD gunwale above the water and start pumping. All in all a massive job, even if the Concordia is a tin ship, not a massive strong/thick steel vessel like the Normandia.

 

AKK

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Being in a more open environment and with a convenient reef nearby. ground tackle, air and flotation cushions can be used to right the ship without resorting to cutting it apart. The Italian environmental people want it gone in one piece if possible.

 

The removal of the Normandie was a fiasco almost as bad as its capsize. Merrit Chapman & Scott was contracted to raise the ship. Account the cramped quarters and lack of expertise in salvage (MCS was a marine construction company, not a towing and salvage firm.) the decision was made to remove the superstructure. The fact that the US Navy coveted the hull for an aircraft carrier conversion probably had a great deal to do with that.

 

Anyway, wartime exigencies and inefficiencies caused one of the finest ships to ever sail the North Atlantic route to become razor blades.

 

Doc

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Being in a more open environment and with a convenient reef nearby. ground tackle, air and flotation cushions can be used to right the ship without resorting to cutting it apart. The Italian environmental people want it gone in one piece if possible.

 

The removal of the Normandie was a fiasco almost as bad as its capsize. Merrit Chapman & Scott was contracted to raise the ship. Account the cramped quarters and lack of expertise in salvage (MCS was a marine construction company, not a towing and salvage firm.) the decision was made to remove the superstructure. The fact that the US Navy coveted the hull for an aircraft carrier conversion probably had a great deal to do with that.

 

Anyway, wartime exigencies and inefficiencies caused one of the finest ships to ever sail the North Atlantic route to become razor blades.

 

Doc

 

 

I agree the Normandie was indeed a beautiful Vessel! Not so sure about the superstructure not being cut away.........

 

But time will tell.

 

Any more articales show up?

 

 

AKK

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My point in this discussion is that the level of expertise involved with the Costa Concordia salvage far exceeds that in the attempted salvage of the Normandie. The only companies in the United States that regularly undertook salvage jobs under Lloyd's Open Form Contract were on the Great Lakes. Great Lakes Towing and Roen Steamship both did this sort of work for many years. They almost always succeeded.

 

Merrit, Chapman & Scott, a marine construction company, dabbled in salvage operations on a per hour basis. This is a sign of a company lacking both expertise and daring. Lloyd's Open Form starts out saying in very bold letters, "No cure, No pay." Real salvage firms love the risk-reward ratio of this contract.

 

Doc

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My point in this discussion is that the level of expertise involved with the Costa Concordia salvage far exceeds that in the attempted salvage of the Normandie. The only companies in the United States that regularly undertook salvage jobs under Lloyd's Open Form Contract were on the Great Lakes. Great Lakes Towing and Roen Steamship both did this sort of work for many years. They almost always succeeded.

 

Merrit, Chapman & Scott, a marine construction company, dabbled in salvage operations on a per hour basis. This is a sign of a company lacking both expertise and daring. Lloyd's Open Form starts out saying in very bold letters, "No cure, No pay." Real salvage firms love the risk-reward ratio of this contract.

 

Doc

 

 

The one point you missed in the Normandie discussion is that the level of expertize in the 1940's and during a war time , with limited eqiupment and manpower makes, the comparison between the 2 vessel like Apples and oranges.

 

Lloyds open form is far from the only type of salvage contract and as far as we know there is no contract yet awarded nor has the details of any plan been been released.

 

 

The maritime international legal system today makes it very hard to support a LLoyds form, except on emergency situations. The Concordia is no longer a emergency situation and the recovery may be a flat fee and /or a time plus %, or even a lloyds letter.

 

This is no longer the Cowboy days of salvage......a salvage firm doesn't just get a signed lloyds form and then just go do anthing they want!....a detailed plan, including just what the salvage firm intends to go about recoverying the wreck. protection for the inviroment, insurances, etc..etc...must be approved and agreed to by all goverment, insurance maritime groups, vessel owners, etc have to sign off on the plan..

 

 

I have worked with many salvage firms and recoveries......I have great respect for them and their skill....but none of them are Cowboys anymore!

 

But we will see in time

 

AKK

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The only companies in the United States that regularly undertook salvage jobs under Lloyd's Open Form Contract were on the Great Lakes. Great Lakes Towing and Roen Steamship both did this sort of work for many years. They almost always succeeded.
Going slightly OT - Doc, do you know whether Great Lakes salvaged the Eastland in Chicago? I've seen GLT tugs in photos with the capsized vessel; there's one ship that was salvaged and sailed another 30 years, although not in the passenger trade. (DH worked for GLT while in college, although he was pretty much limited to tug maintenance in the yard.)
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Yes. Great Lakes Towing did the job. The aptly named Capt. Alex Cunning was the skipper and wreckmaster of the salvage tug Favorite. He righted the Eastland and towed it to the former Shipowner's Drydock Co. They sealed up the hull and pumped in air to float the ship. 835 people were drowned 15 feet from the bank of the Chicago River when this excursion steamer capsized at her dock.

 

I learned a great deal about salvage from my dear friend, the late Capt. John Roen. He took a liking to me and told me of his many exploits when I was a kid.

 

Dpc

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