New Flyer, is PE worth it for long-haul?

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#81
Arizona
644 Posts
Joined Jul 2008
Originally posted by waterbug123
Where or how, exactly, have you seen Delta themselves market Comfort+ as premium economy?
Delta flags W/C+ as “premium” main cabin across all global platforms that do not (or may not) use the c+ delta trademarks. That’s why it shows as “premium economy” on all OTAs. Orbitz etc. are not putting that label it by choice. They are passing along what Delta is telling them to call the W fare bucket. Delta is obviously proud of C+ and unlike AA or UA they give it their own fare class and I can understand why they don’t want it called economy or main cabin on OTAs because then it would appear $10 to $150 more than its competition for a marginally better product. But flagging it “premium” to avoid that problem is highly misleading and borderline unethical, especially now that they have a true PE product.
#82
London
22,589 Posts
Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by waterbug123
Where or how, exactly, have you seen Delta themselves market Comfort+ as premium economy?
Originally posted by Suzanne123
It is confusing because Delta calls their Comfot + a “ Premium” experience.
Originally posted by Regguy
Delta flags W/C+ as “premium” main cabin across all global platforms that do not (or may not) use the c+ delta trademarks. That’s why it shows as “premium economy” on all OTAs. Orbitz etc. are not putting that label it by choice. They are passing along what Delta is telling them to call the W fare bucket.
I did a quick Google search on delta.com, which returned a number of pages that described Comfort+ as a premium experience (or in similar terms). But on a quick glance, it looked like all of these pre-dated the announcement of Premium Select. The only trace that I could immediately find on current pages was that the page title of the Comfort+ description page contains the word "premium", but the word does not appear in the body of the page.

So what I wonder is whether the marketing language was deliberately changed by DL when Premium Select was introduced.

Having decided to sell Comfort+ as a distinct fare type above normal economy fares does leave DL in a bit of a bind so far as online sources are concerned. In a sense, DL's approach to Comfort+ means that it's trying to sell five cabin types on systems which are only set up for four cabin descriptions (first, business, PE and economy). When not-invented-here syndrome was still rampant on the big online sites, airlines which sold true premium economy had to make do with marking their PE fares as "economy" and relying on marketing to identify premium economy fares. But I suspect that regulatory action would be needed to make DL sell its normal-economy-with-extra-legroom product as "economy".

And hence we will have to continue to warn that some airlines sell a product which is designed to sound like premium economy, but is actually just normal-economy-with-extra-legroom rather than true premium economy.
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#83
7,670 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
Originally posted by Regguy
Delta flags W/C+ as “premium” main cabin across all global platforms that do not (or may not) use the c+ delta trademarks. That’s why it shows as “premium economy” on all OTAs. Orbitz etc. are not putting that label it by choice. They are passing along what Delta is telling them to call the W fare bucket. Delta is obviously proud of C+ and unlike AA or UA they give it their own fare class and I can understand why they don’t want it called economy or main cabin on OTAs because then it would appear $10 to $150 more than its competition for a marginally better product. But flagging it “premium” to avoid that problem is highly misleading and borderline unethical, especially now that they have a true PE product.
Does Delta flag it as premium specifially to get it lumped in with other true PE products and therefore intentionally mislead people on such websites, or do such websites not have a category for fare classes that are somewhere between regular economy and premium economy? In which case the airline must choose one category or another, neither of which truly fit.
I think the fact that Delta is very clear on its own website speaks volumes about how they prefer to market it.
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Meg

Remembering 35 past cruises:
26 Royal Caribbean, 5 Celebrity, 2 Carnival, 2 Oceania, 1 Princess

Anticipating 5 future cruises:
Celebrity Millennium, 7 night Alaska, June 2018
Allure of the Seas, 7 night Western Caribbean, July 2018
Viking Atla, 7 night Danube River, Sept 2018
Oasis of the Seas, 7 night Eastern Caribbean, Feb 2019
#84
Arizona
644 Posts
Joined Jul 2008
Originally posted by waterbug123
Does Delta flag it as premium specifially to get it lumped in with other true PE products and therefore intentionally mislead people on such websites, or do such websites not have a category for fare classes that are somewhere between regular economy and premium economy? In which case the airline must choose one category or another, neither of which truly fit.
I think the fact that Delta is very clear on its own website speaks volumes about how they prefer to market it.
They could chose to call it economy (or main cabin for some overseas OTAs). They choose to call it premium.
#85
Arizona
644 Posts
Joined Jul 2008
Originally posted by Globaliser
I did a quick Google search on delta.com, which returned a number of pages that described Comfort+ as a premium experience (or in similar terms). But on a quick glance, it looked like all of these pre-dated the announcement of Premium Select. The only trace that I could immediately find on current pages was that the page title of the Comfort+ description page contains the word "premium", but the word does not appear in the body of the page.

So what I wonder is whether the marketing language was deliberately changed by DL when Premium Select was introduced.

Having decided to sell Comfort+ as a distinct fare type above normal economy fares does leave DL in a bit of a bind so far as online sources are concerned. In a sense, DL's approach to Comfort+ means that it's trying to sell five cabin types on systems which are only set up for four cabin descriptions (first, business, PE and economy). When not-invented-here syndrome was still rampant on the big online sites, airlines which sold true premium economy had to make do with marking their PE fares as "economy" and relying on marketing to identify premium economy fares. But I suspect that regulatory action would be needed to make DL sell its normal-economy-with-extra-legroom product as "economy".

And hence we will have to continue to warn that some airlines sell a product which is designed to sound like premium economy, but is actually just normal-economy-with-extra-legroom rather than true premium economy.
Yeah, I doubt any regulation is in the offing. I think either the market will correct it or not. Delta may have trouble selling PS if some customers get burned with non PS “premium”. Probably more likely that UA and AA will start selling E+ and MCE as separate products since they follow delta in everything anyway.

Or maybe OTAs will adjust. We do need a fifth category for these products. If foreign carriers get in on the act it will be very difficult for consumers. The delta (pun intended, haha) between regular economy and c+ is insignificant compared to the delta between c+ and premium economy.
#86
London
22,589 Posts
Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by waterbug123
... or do such websites not have a category for fare classes that are somewhere between regular economy and premium economy?
It's this.

As I said, it's the same position as when there was a new cabin type between economy and business, and websites didn't have a category for it. PE fares had to be listed as "economy".
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#87
7,670 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
Originally posted by Regguy
They could chose to call it economy (or main cabin for some overseas OTAs). They choose to call it premium.
Yes.... because these 3rd party sites have no mechanism by which Delta, or others with similar "plus" products, can accurately list them. So the airline has to choose one or another inaccurate categories. That's not exactly the same as saying"hey let's fool everyone and tell them this plus product is a PE product." They are forced into choosing one or another inaccurate categories, and choosing either one potentially bites them in the a88.

As with all things, it's buyer beware. The savvy consume will spend 5 minutes doing independent and easy research to ensure they know what they are actually getting. When I booked AF PE for the first time every this past fall, I made no assumptions as to exactly what I would or wouldn't be getting. I'd heard plenty about it hear and on several frequent flyer forums in which I participate, including 3 that are strictly Delta-oriented (and thus include quite a bit of info about their Sky Team partners with whom they partner). But I STILL went to the AF website and read the detailed description of AF PE before hitting the purchase button.
Unfortunately, we know all too well that a lot of consumers aren't as savvy as they should be, and prefer to make assumptions....which often result in disappointment.
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Meg

Remembering 35 past cruises:
26 Royal Caribbean, 5 Celebrity, 2 Carnival, 2 Oceania, 1 Princess

Anticipating 5 future cruises:
Celebrity Millennium, 7 night Alaska, June 2018
Allure of the Seas, 7 night Western Caribbean, July 2018
Viking Atla, 7 night Danube River, Sept 2018
Oasis of the Seas, 7 night Eastern Caribbean, Feb 2019