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Boorish behaviour on Seabourn


crwydryn
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I know it's not often a feature on our beloved Seabourn, but a few comments on previous posts/threads lead me to offer this brief account of how a small number of pax on Quest (mainly 15-19 May towards St.Petersburg) loudly and drunkenly monopolised the evening Observation bar, making it it a rowdy area as opposed to a gently quiet area to enjoy a drink and soft piano.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else has observed this behaviour - my hypothesis is that it could be related to aggressive marketing/late price reduction of seven day cruises.

We travelled Dover-Copenhagen-St. petersburg-Stockholm 1-19 May. Despite diversions and port and related excursion cancellations that the Captain described as owing to weather conditions, we enjoyed all other aspects of this voyage.

The crew was wonderful, the food was the best we have had on Seabourn. The CD and senior staff are excellent ambassadors for Seabourn.

However, to come to the point, this almost wonderful cruise was negatively impacted upon by loud drunken behaviour of some guests. This was mainly toward the end of the cruise, and especially bad on the final four nights in the Observation lounge.

The behaviour was apparent among approximately six to ten guests and more, some of whom drank solidly and extremely heavily in the Observation lounge from 16.00 hours until its close. The offensive behaviour consisted of:

 

  • communication by frequent shouting and screaming , especially by those monopolising the bar stool area
  • loud ‘racy’ jokes - eg “have you heard the one about the three hookers…”
  • the accomplished evening pianist was often inaudible above the screeching and shouting
  • on some evenings, every pause by the pianist was accompanied by football-style prolonged whistling, “whooping” at huge volume
  • constant requests to sing with the gentle, diplomatic pianist
  • evidence of vomiting in the toilets
  • on one evening, a couple started vigorous jiving about six inches from my seat until dislodged I was forced to leave as my drink was in danger of being dislodged and spilt. And I was in danger of asphyxia from their huge body odour. One of these later earned the soubriquet of 'Smelly XXX'
  • frequent and ostentatious large special orders - eg caviar at 11pm

Thus in the latter stage of this cruise some passengers were determined to treat the occasion as a ‘Booze Cruise’ accompanied by inappropriate behaviour. and conspicuous consumption and ‘possession’.

Senior crew and staff who came into contact with these disrupters were very discreet, but as true professionals they were plainly very concerned by this decline and fall of the exclusive atmosphere of the Observation Lounge. it appears this behaviour is apparent on other seven day cruises and is increasing in frequency. Our experience on this particular cruise has led us to doubt our return to Seabourn, and without doubt we would exclude seven day cruises from our immediate horizon.

I certainly raised this behaviour issue with senior staff, including twice in writing. I'm also so concerned that I have written to Mr Richard Meadows. I am sure the Quest did their very best to address the issue, but for us and several other acquaintances it ruled out visiting the Observation bar - or leaving it prematurely - during the last week of the cruise.

As one who travels for most of the year, for business and pleasure - including as travel writer - I have to say that this element of this latest Seabourn experience has been a most unpleasant and very unexpected part of my experience. I and my wife would love to return to Seabourn, but now must actively seek for other providers featuring genuinely quiet and elegant atmosphere throughout the vessel.

I am sorry to post this unfortunate experience. I do so in the hope that senior Seabourn executives may read it and find it useful, and to ask others to report their experiences (indeed I truly hope this was a one-off). And as one hypothesis - which may deserve investigation - if this is not simply an isolated experience of boorish and off-putting behaviour, is it connected with last minute price reductions to bargain levels?

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I must say I would have taken the coward's way out and just gone to the Club; but of course you should not have to, and no doubt you preferred the music in the Observation Bar.

 

I have known of instances where people have been thrown off the ship - once for smoking pot, once when we were on board for drunken bad behaviour and importuning a female staff member. So it can be done. Presumably the Captain has the option, and I imagine he would consult Head Office before taking this action? Generally done very discreetly, so that other passengers are probably not aware of it happening.

 

I am sure you are right;most likely to happen on a 7 nighter, and especially if the price had been reduced considerably. The drunks on our cruise were a party of youngish men; kept the bar staff up until 3 a.m. I believe only the worst ones departed; the others quietened down a lot after. They spoke very little English, which did not help.

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You will always have the gamble of how other guests behave on any ship especially if they drink a lot.

I would say never take a seven day cruise on any ship as it always has a different feel to a longer trip and can attract a different element.

It really is pot luck on a ship or on land as to how others behave.

 

 

 

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I've seen an issue with a single drunk once in the observation bar. He and some others were discussing gun control. It got very loud. Then there was the woman who got loaded before dinner then had a mild spat with her husband at the table they were hosting. Then there was the mom who had abandoned her young daughter in their room to come to the club to hit on a performer and try to get him booze on the sly. A crying phone call from the daughter interrupted that but from what I heard there was a crew policy change as a result. So I have seen bad behavior linked with alcohol while on Seabourn. Not as bad or as widespread as say Oceania. However I've seen some fairly creepy bad sober behavior on Seabourn as well (the reach into my pocket for a tip guy comes to mind). None of these were seven day cruises.

 

 

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How senior was the crew and staff you contacted? The Hotman? The Captain? If they observed this behavior personally as they should have done after your complaints and did nothing to remedy the situation then your beef is with SB itself and not the boorish passengers. This kind of situation is unacceptable. The bartenders and waiters should have been instructed to refuse service to these offenders at the very least or as previously mentioned they should have been removed from the ship. Preferably via the plank!

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Thats appalling and very disappointing that Seabourn did not take control after the first night and bring a stop to the behaviour in question. We also much prefer longer cruises whenever possible. However, there are not so many of them and in any case, we often only have time to jump on for a quick 7 day break. So far we have been fortunate, but in future, it may be that longer cruises may be required if we encounter this sort of thing on the shorter stretches. In addition, bear in mind that you might book 14 days - but find that it is also available in 7 day segments.

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We were on the Dover/Copenhagen segment of that same trip. We love a piano bar and have been so happy since they finally went smokeless in the Observation lounge. We greatly enjoyed John on that trip. We stopped doing anything less then 10 days years ago for that very reason. I think people try to cram 10 days worth of partying into 7. I like having fun as much as anyone, but people should be aware that there are passengers on the ship as well. I'm not sure what they can do, but they should be able to withhold alcohol to those that have clearly had enough.

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Want concerns me most on reading this thread is that it appears that Seabourn did not take the appropriate action to put an end to this anti social behaviour immediately. The OP mentions that senior staff were aware/in contact with the individuals, and that they themselves had in fact made complaints - I am curious as to what Seabourn did in response. I am positive that in our T & C's their is a clause/clauses regarding inappropriate behaviour. Surely if the staff 'on the ground' were out of their depth in dealing with this, The Captain should have been called.

On a recent Odyssey cruise we experienced Seabourn staff not wanting to get involved after receiving complaints from clients about toddlers in the pool wearing diapers. We were very disappointed with their lack of involvement. Overall we had a wonderful cruise but came away with the feeling that Seabourn did not or would not get involved when they received complaints from clients about abuse of their own rules by others.

I am curious if you get a response to your written complaints. We did not.

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We witnessed similar boorish, drunken behaviour on Encore Bali-Singapore (Yes, 7 days) in April. I'm afraid staff did little or nothing to deal with it. The main "party" area seemed to be aft behind the Club judging by the mess and the cigarette butts floating in the spas. Classy. So lesson learned, no more 7 day cruises for us.

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We are on the Encore in 2 weeks.It was advertised as a 2 week cruise.Since we booked they starting selling it as 7 day cruises.The first week was so ridiculous low we are afraid of what will happen.

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Maybe they should hire some staff from a Carnival party boat. They probably have more idea how to dealwith this behaviour because I don't think Seabourn crew have the necessary experience (yet).

 

I am curious what your obsession with Carnival Corp? During the 19+ years that they have been the 100% owner of Seabourn I have had the most amazing experiences on the original triplets as well as the Odyssey and the Sojourn. I am looking forward to my Encore sailing later in the year.

 

Seabourn, and also Cunard Line, would probably not exist at all now if Carnival Corp did not purchase them. Have things changed over the years, of course. Show me one cruise line that has not changed in the last 20 years and I'll show you a cruise line that is losing money.

 

Sadly, I have seen drunk passengers, occasionally behaving badly, on Regent, Silversea, Crystal. Hmmmm, none of those are owned by Carnival. Whatever can be the reason there were unruly passengers if the cruise lines are not owned by Carnival?

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I believe that the idea is that as Seabourn changes- and it is changing- that they might as well use the best resources

available from within the Carnival Corporation to manage that change. In this case the recent boorish behaviors need to be addressed and if the captain is not in a position to/does not do so it is up to the management shore-side to do something about the issue.

 

Hence, bring in Carnival party crowd control staff to enforce the sophisticated style of this premium brand and/or retrain the captain and/or his shipboard security staff.

 

Someone needs to be empowered and to take action on the spot. If the current flow is for the ship-board staff to refer such problems to Seattle and wait for direction, well, that may just not be good enough for everyone else who is exposed to these boors.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

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Seabourn staff are trained to offer excellent customer service with a can do attitude and a customer is always right approach. This works wonderfully with well mannered passengers who consider the needs of others as well as their own. I think the staff get a bit flummoxed when passengers behave badly and unfortunately, there is an increasing sense of entitlement from some people and these people are choosing to sail on Seabourn.

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Unfortunately I think this type of behavior is becoming common practice everywhere and not just on cruise ships. Ask anyone who deals with the public on a regular basis. I think Techno has nailed it, the crew have that attitude where the customer is always right and on the odd occasion when it happens don't know how to handle it. Maybe they do and maybe they don't report it upwards.

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This is a really difficult one.

 

If they were to use drugs it's off the ship.

 

If they were to physically abuse a staff member or fellow guest it's off the ship.

 

If they were to vandalise the vessel it's off the ship.

 

Getting drunk, telling jokes which you might find risqué or ordering copious quantities of caviar are not grounds for getting thrown off the ship.

 

In no way am I belittling the impact these people had on your cruise but different cultures, nationalities and lifestyles bring with them habits which might clash with our own ideals. It's a slippery slope if the ship intervenes with too heavy a hand.

 

I witnessed an otherwise charming guest who got a bit over involved during a performance in the grand salon recently. The entertainment staff stepped in to defuse the situation but some might have called for her removal.

 

Alcohol in particular brings out the worst in people. There are security staff on board and ultimately it is they who step in when required but deployment is a bit like riot police, it can sometimes escalate things.

 

Henry :)

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What suggestions do you have, Henry, for checking this unpleasant behaviour? I agree it is a tricky one, and also that SB staff are generally expected to indulge guests, who by and large do behave in a civilised manner. Maybe if they were warned on night one, one of them would have taken a pop at someone, which would be the ideal excuse to offload them?!

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This is a really difficult one.

 

If they were to use drugs it's off the ship.

 

If they were to physically abuse a staff member or fellow guest it's off the ship.

 

If they were to vandalise the vessel it's off the ship.

 

Getting drunk, telling jokes which you might find risqué or ordering copious quantities of caviar are not grounds for getting thrown off the ship.

 

In no way am I belittling the impact these people had on your cruise but different cultures, nationalities and lifestyles bring with them habits which might clash with our own ideals. It's a slippery slope if the ship intervenes with too heavy a hand.

 

I witnessed an otherwise charming guest who got a bit over involved during a performance in the grand salon recently. The entertainment staff stepped in to defuse the situation but some might have called for her removal.

 

Alcohol in particular brings out the worst in people. There are security staff on board and ultimately it is they who step in when required but deployment is a bit like riot police, it can sometimes escalate things.

 

Henry :)

 

Dear Henry,

 

quite agreed. It's not an easy task at all for Seabourn - and that's why I put our perceptions - twice - in writing to onboard management. From subsequent comment by several of them on Quest It's clear that this was taken seriously. For reasons of discretion I do not want to name or quote the staff concerned.

 

On return from the cruise I wrote in similar - and I believe constructive - vein to Richard Meadows. I'm happy to say that I rapidly received a reply from his office which shows that :

  • the email I sent had been read carefully
  • the annoying/upsetting issues I evidenced from the Observation Lounge in the evenings were going to be analysed
  • gave good reason to believe that Mr Meadow's office empathised with my disappointment

(My email to him, like the feedback letters I submitted on board, emphasised the wonderful crew, great food and other positive as pects of the cruise)

 

 

Like you, I'm sure there's no fit-all prescription for differences in behaviour and its perception. We're all different.

 

That said, the main purpose in putting my perception of specific incidents in the Observation Lounge to Richard Meadows was to see if Seabourn acknowledged that this nightly noisyness in that specific venue detracted from SB's desire to present the particular venue as a relaxing one, where a gentle and talented pianist could be heard rather than drowned-out.

 

 

It's plain that my objective has been achieved and that SB have done as I wish and considered seriously my perceptions of those occasions. So I now stand back. However, I do hope that this thread, or similar, continues to catch future cruisers' perceptions - the evidence would be useful to SB, and on a person level, would give me a bit more information regarding whether to go for SB or rival for our autumn cruise.

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I'm glad that you've had a response from Mr Meadows and hope he takes the necessary steps to instruct staff/management on board (all ships) that this behaviour for the vast majority of pax is unacceptable, even distressing and certainly very disappointing. Whether it should be necessary to ask the CEO to intervene is perhaps the more pertinent question.

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Pleased to hear that you have had a response which you find satisfactory, and hope that this may mean things can be nipped in the bud in future.

 

I believe that cruise lines do sometimes 'black ball' passengers from future cruises - not helpful at the time of course.

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Let's not generalize. Lower prices or aggressive marketing does not necessarily mean 'lower class' or boorish.I have met many well heeled travelers on Seabourn whose manner, style and demeanor is terrible. To equate money with class is out of date, discriminatory and the height of snobbery. Everyone likes to get a good deal on a cruise and just because you paid 'full boat,' hardly means you're full of style. That sounds like a lot of hot ballast air to me.

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Let's not generalize. Lower prices or aggressive marketing does not necessarily mean 'lower class' or boorish.I have met many well heeled travelers on Seabourn whose manner, style and demeanor is terrible. To equate money with class is out of date, discriminatory and the height of snobbery. Everyone likes to get a good deal on a cruise and just because you paid 'full boat,' hardly means you're full of style. That sounds like a lot of hot ballast air to me.

 

hello Hobar,clear.png?emoji-smile-1742

just to agree; as you say, generalisation is not useful. I didn't and don't attribute the behaviour we saw to any particular 'group', class, gender or ethnicity. My hope was that SB could address this behaviour if it features again. I wrote about an actual series of instances specific to the Observation Lounge, on specific evenings on a specific cruise. I didn't inquire the background of those who disrupted the atmosphere. You're correct - we can have that kind of behaviour from any class, culture etc. But boorish behaviour it was for sure. :)

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