Thank you gifts for tour guides

The subject of the OP's original question wasn't really about tipping, so I hesitate to get too much into that area here. But I feel like if people REALLY understood it, they would try to tip appropriately when traveling.

 

Maybe it would help to think about a hypothetical reverse situation. Let's say you live in an urban area/city where one of the transportation methods people commonly use to get around on short trips is an Uber-like service for which tipping is repeatedly said to be not necessary. You use Uber, like most other people in this community, because it is convenient and it is reasonably priced based on market norms in your area.

 

Now, let's say hordes of Europeans start visiting your city and using this "faux Uber" service. They think it's wonderful and much cheaper than their similar transportation options at home. Let's say they start tipping the faux Uber drivers heavily as a result. And let's say drivers accept the tips despite the "norm" that has applied until now that tips weren't necessary.

 

All of a sudden, there is a newly created expectation among faux Uber drivers that they should be tipped, and at a pretty hefty percentage. If you continue your normal practices, your erstwhile friendly Uber drivers will start to snarl and be unpleasant when not tipped. Taken further, they may begin to avoid picking you up altogether.

 

This is an (admittedly imperfect) example of someone from another culture coming in and changing a cultural norm. The person tipping isn't unhappy about it, the driver accepts it, but it changes norms in the community in ways that the "tipper" didn't stop to consider.

 

Don't be that person. Sure, offer a small tip as a token acknowledgement of good service if you must, when traveling. But don't bring American-style tipping standards to places where there is no need for applying them.

Totally agree with Cruisemom

I think that when tipping you need to think about the country and the economic circumstances. When we are in countries where there is considerable poverty we always tip well, provided we have been happy with the tour. In such countries tour guides are often on very minimal wages/commission and rely on tips to make ends meet. In Europe this is not generally the case, so would only give a minimal tip or none, depending on the experience.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

When you use the ‘Tours by Locals’ website for booking tour guides, it specifically states that no tipping is required, because they are professionals who quote a fixed price for their service.

 

In general, if we buy the tour guide lunch, we don’t tip as well. If they don’t join us for lunch, we might tip, if not booked through Tours By Locals. However, if on a ship’s bus excursion, then we do tip the guide, who is clearly an employee, wherever we are in the world.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

First, this is written in English on a web site targeting Americans, perhaps the most susceptible to this kind of message because Americans already expect to tip.

 

Second, it's not uncommon for group tours to do this, the tour operator negotiates a better deal with the supplier by promising to do everything they can to promote tipping. They would never do this with an Italian audience.

 

Third, as a sentient adult I know that you don't believe everything you read on the internet. That nonsense about a customary minimum tip in Italy is laughable.

 

Well as a caring adult, I'd much rather tip when not needed than vice versa. It's not a lot of money to me and it makes me feel good to be generous.

Well as a caring adult, I'd much rather tip when not needed than vice versa. It's not a lot of money to me and it makes me feel good to be generous.

 

So...it's all about making you feel good?

Funny how Americans get criticized for not following cultural norms in Europe, yet when (some) Europeans come to the States they defend their lack of tipping by 'we're European and we don't tip in Europe'. Or they go on a mass market cruise where the cruise culture involves tipping and they defend removing grats for the same reason.

 

Ideally everyone follows the cultural norms of wherever they are. But I am far more sympathetic of someone who violates the cultural norms by being generous than I am of someone who violates the cultural norms by being cheap.

Funny how Americans get criticized for not following cultural norms in Europe, yet when (some) Europeans come to the States they defend their lack of tipping by 'we're European and we don't tip in Europe'. Or they go on a mass market cruise where the cruise culture involves tipping and they defend removing grats for the same reason.

 

Ideally everyone follows the cultural norms of wherever they are. But I am far more sympathetic of someone who violates the cultural norms by being generous than I am of someone who violates the cultural norms by being cheap.

 

A cultural norm is a cultural norm. It's not important what YOU think of it but rather what the people whose culture it is think of it.

 

Europeans get criticized (especially on these boards) just as roundly -- in fact probably more so -- for not tipping according to cruise ship guidelines.

A cultural norm is a cultural norm. It's not important what YOU think of it but rather what the people whose culture it is think of it.

 

Europeans get criticized (especially on these boards) just as roundly -- in fact probably more so -- for not tipping according to cruise ship guidelines.

Well said, mom. You are the expert.

So...it's all about making you feel good?

 

Ahh, the age old philosophical question.

 

Is there really such a thing as altruism? Many people do good because it makes them feel good, so is that selfish? Or is the fact that altruism makes them feel good the essence of altruism? We think about this alot in kidney transplant, our donors tell us they love the feeling of having donated, so are they truly altruistic? And what about a parent who donates to a child because, well, it's their child? Is that just DNA talking? Or a wife who donates to hubby so he can get off dialysis and go on vacation with her, is she selfish? Altruistic? Some of both?

 

I don't know the answer to this, I will leave it to the philosophers. But it's pretty clear it's better to feel good by doing good, right?

If it's philosophical it's more about ethics than pleasure. You're asking the wrong question if you're wondering whether it is truly altruistic to give unselfishly, the question is whether it is ethical to impose your norms and beliefs on others.

 

If you really want to start a fight on this front ask whether it is ethical to proselytize. On one hand you could say a missionary is just inviting someone to experience their faith, they are just sharing what brings them joy. On the other hand, if they continue to do it over time (and often in exchange for something important like food or clean water or education) are they not imposing their belief system on others?

If it's philosophical it's more about ethics than pleasure. You're asking the wrong question if you're wondering whether it is truly altruistic to give unselfishly, the question is whether it is ethical to impose your norms and beliefs on others.

 

If you really want to start a fight on this front ask whether it is ethical to proselytize. On one hand you could say a missionary is just inviting someone to experience their faith, they are just sharing what brings them joy. On the other hand, if they continue to do it over time (and often in exchange for something important like food or clean water or education) are they not imposing their belief system on others?

 

Well stated. Is it really doing good if your behaviour , i.e. tipping, is affecting normal social customs to the detriment of the locals?

drsel

 

I wouldn't have gone in. This tipping nonsense has all started in recent years with so many cruise ships stopping in the Med with thousands of North Americans. Obviously, the greedy and unscrupulous jump on the bandwagon, like the Blue Grotto man.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

drsel

 

I wouldn't have gone in. This tipping nonsense has all started in recent years with so many cruise ships stopping in the Med with thousands of North Americans. Obviously, the greedy and unscrupulous jump on the bandwagon, like the Blue Grotto man.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Hello! We had just waited 90 minutes for our turn to see the Blue Grotto. We just couldn't back out.

drsel

 

I wouldn't have gone in. This tipping nonsense has all started in recent years with so many cruise ships stopping in the Med with thousands of North Americans. Obviously, the greedy and unscrupulous jump on the bandwagon, like the Blue Grotto man.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

With a 10 euro official boat fee + 5 euro tip, he would make 15 x 100 (passengers) =1500 euro per day! If he works 22 days/month, that is 33000 euro per month gross income. Even after all expenses--boat hire, repairs and maintenance, fuel, insurance, license fees, permits and tax (only on the 10 euro official boat fee) he would still make much more than almost all those giving him tips! It's absurd and crazy! Edited June 13, 2018 by drsel

No matter how snotty they get (the rowers at the Blue Grotto) you don't have to tip them, and they don't get that from every boat, mostly just English speakers. Italians visit there as well and they're not going to shame them into a tip.

 

By the way, I thought of a parallel that might make more sense to people, the U.S. National Parks' "Leave No Trace" philosophy. It seems pretty obvious to most of us when you hike or camp or just visit a national park that you carry out anything you carried in, in the spirit of leaving behind nothing but footprints.

 

In the same way we can strive to not pollute another culture by leaving behind bits of our own.

 

https://www.nationalparktripsmedia.com/national-park-stories/leave-no-trace

drsel

 

You are right. This is why all this tipping business is nonsense. These people are putting two fingers up to the tourists and laughing all way to the bank.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

You reap what you sow ! This tipping has only got like this because Americans have created the perception of being high tippers. This is now the expected norm if you are with a US group or company. As Brits we get a different reaction, when they realise we are not Americans. In London the best thing to do is talk with an Aussie/ kiwi accent and as they also don't tip, the expectation is reduced.

GrJBerkshire

 

I'm on holiday in Spain at the moment with Spanish friends who hardly ever tip more than a couple of Euros. I've paid a number of bills with CC and not left any tips. No eyebrows raised or disapproving faces pulled.

 

I live in central London and find many decent restaurants now add twelve and half % tip. I think that's a bit cheeky. I have sometimes asked for it to be removed.

 

In Europe we don't want or need excessive American tipping habits.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Subject of tipping in US. The issue is that workers are paid below minimum wage so it really is not a tip. Please consider it the cost of the meal. For those Americans who are not experienced travelers, it is just assumed that the same pay system is in place. It’s not about trying to place your culture on another.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

For those Americans who are not experienced travelers, it is just assumed that the same pay system is in place. It’s not about trying to place your culture on another.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I'm willing to give the benefit of a doubt to those who don't realize the differences in tipping culture (although I feel that it should be part of one's preparation for travel to read about what to expect in the countries one is visiting -- and just about every basic travel book has notes about these differences).

 

What's inappropriate is when people DO know the differences and insist on tipping American-style anyway. :mad:

I'm willing to give the benefit of a doubt to those who don't realize the differences in tipping culture (although I feel that it should be part of one's preparation for travel to read about what to expect in the countries one is visiting -- and just about every basic travel book has notes about these differences).

 

What's inappropriate is when people DO know the differences and insist on tipping American-style anyway. :mad:

 

Totally agree with this. What I find interesting is I was reading a discussion on tipping on the Ask A Cruise Question board and so many from the US are up in arms that tipping should be done in the US and on US based ships because that is the culture. I do agree with this sentiment.....so why do some of those same people insist on going to places that don't tip or tip very little i.e. rounding up but insist on tipping the same way they do in the U.S.

 

Using the excuse "because it is what I am used too and it makes me feel good" isn't appropriate when it is affecting cultural norms in another country.

 

Julie

What's inappropriate is when people DO know the differences and insist on tipping American-style anyway. :mad:

 

I was recently having a similar conversation with some people and a guy said: "I will tip like I do at home, I don't care if European are cheapskates." So, no matter what we say, some people just don't get it. Can't account for narrow mindnessness . . .

Got2Cruise

 

I can't see why a customer should be expected to top up somebody's salary just because the employer is too mean to pay the minimum wage to an employee. Surely it's the employees right to be paid within the law.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Presumably in the US there are not laws about minimum wages - or if there are laws they are not enforced. I think it’s immoral for an employer to pay someone a wage that’s not enough to live on, especially when many employers (especially big corporations) are making huge profits. At least in the U.K. we have minimum wages legislation and it is now enforced, along with lots of negative publicity about companies who have been found not obeying these laws.

If employers don’t pay living wages someone else has to make this up or people starve! In the U.K. that someone is the state, so we all pay with our taxes. This is not right, when shareholders are making huge profits!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums